GDT: Game 65: Red Wings vs yotes 7:00 pm et 3/14/24 (ESPN+, BSD)

[RedWingzz]

By not making any adds, even the 2nd or 3rd tier guys, at the TDL, SY exactly like I said would happen told the team forget it...I don't believe in you

I said he needed to throw them a bone to reward them for how they "had" played..ideally a medium term asset but something needed to be done

Locker rooms are a funny environment..even pro millionaire athletes...Doing nothing, whether right or wrong in the longterm, has a lot to do with where we're today...the message was clear and the reaction, 100% predictable.

Hopefully inside that locker room theirs enough pride to say screw what SY thinks, we're doing this ourselves..

There clearly isnt enough pride though lol, the last 7 "games" clearly indicate this.

The statement game should have been the first Arizona game, after dropping 3 in a row. Now the ship has sailed, the team has full on collapsed, and there is no bouncing back from this.

We'll get thumped by Buffalo tomorrow, that's a team playing like they want the Playoffs. Then we probably beat Pittsburgh and Columbus to give fans a sense of false hope, only to get destroyed by the Islanders next week.

Although it would be kinda funny to lose to Pit and CBJ at this point and drop like 12 games in a row

 

[SirloinUB]

Wow, no kidding on the number of posters coming out of the woodwork with their hot takes.

I thought the effort was there tonight. Execution sucked. No one used their teammates or played as a group. But they were trying.

I know people have their axes to grind, but I kind of have a man crush on Chiarot right now. He's trying. He's playing physical. He's defending teammates. He's scrapping. He's putting it all out there. It's funny that he and Raymond had a tiff because the two of them are the ones I really think are leaving it all on the ice each night during this losing streak.

But yeah, it sucks. This is one of those games that you'd lose in the best of times and shrug it off. The fact that it comes during a losing streak makes it seem worse. DDK and Mick kept saying you just gotta keep working through these streaks.

I missed half the game yesterday but Id throw Fabbri in there as well. He is a limited player, but he is mucking it up and still playing hard.

 

[brett89]

i thought positivity would bring them a win. i was wrong. they suck.

 

[SirloinUB]

Waiting for optimistic guys who still "like our team", somehow see "young core", and expecting us "to come out strong next game".

Honestly, this is one of the biggest collapses that I've seen in a couple of decades for the Red Wings. There was absolutely no indication throughout the year that this team can fall like this.

I guess something happened recently that we are unaware about.

.
If you honestly believe that you were not paying attention. This team was bottom 5 in shots, scoring chances and other underlying metrics all season. This team was riding a high shooting % and an outstanding save % from a career tweener of a goalie for several months.

What you are suggesting with the bolded is flat out wrong.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

.
If you honestly believe that you were not paying attention. This team was bottom 5 in shots, scoring chances and other underlying metrics all season. This team was riding a high shooting % and an outstanding save % from a career tweener of a goalie for several months.

What you are suggesting with the bolded is flat out wrong.

If those metrics are the true story of the team, then man SY has done a brutal job...we in no way should be a bottom 5 team in any stat category whatsoever at this point

Wow, no kidding on the number of posters coming out of the woodwork with their hot takes.

I thought the effort was there tonight. Execution sucked. No one used their teammates or played as a group. But they were trying.

I know people have their axes to grind, but I kind of have a man crush on Chiarot right now. He's trying. He's playing physical. He's defending teammates. He's scrapping. He's putting it all out there. It's funny that he and Raymond had a tiff because the two of them are the ones I really think are leaving it all on the ice each night during this losing streak.

But yeah, it sucks. This is one of those games that you'd lose in the best of times and shrug it off. The fact that it comes during a losing streak makes it seem worse. DDK and Mick kept saying you just gotta keep working through these streaks.

Fans come out of the wood work during both winning and losing streaks...how we choose to hear what they say is what changes..

 

[Snuggs]

.
If you honestly believe that you were not paying attention. This team was bottom 5 in shots, scoring chances and other underlying metrics all season. This team was riding a high shooting % and an outstanding save % from a career tweener of a goalie for several months.

What you are suggesting with the bolded is flat out wrong.

Without these last 7 games included, I find it really hard to believe those stats prior to the Florida game this month.

Any links or something where I can look these numbers up? (I'm actually curious).

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

By not making any adds, even the 2nd or 3rd tier guys, at the TDL, SY exactly like I said would happen told the team forget it...I don't believe in you

I said he needed to throw them a bone to reward them for how they "had" played..ideally a medium term asset but something needed to be done

Locker rooms are a funny environment..even pro millionaire athletes...Doing nothing, whether right or wrong in the longterm, has a lot to do with where we're today...the message was clear and the reaction, 100% predictable.

Hopefully inside that locker room theirs enough pride to say screw what SY thinks, we're doing this ourselves..

Stevie signed Patrick friggin Kane. It didn't happen at the deadline but it's on a one-year deal.

The other, and I believe more realistic scenario, is everyone knows this is a rebuilding team. It's a playoff bubble team that's first round fodder at best. That's the ceiling with this roster. So come deadline time it's not about adding some sexy free agent for 20 games. It's "is Yzerman going to trade the guys on expiring deals to acquire assets?" Because that's the move GMs make when their team still lacks talent.

But he didn't sell anyone. He hung onto assets who almost certainly won't be here next year that he will lose for nothing. That's the vote of confidence. Let's keep this team together and see what we can do.

If this tailspin is a actually a result of them being upset they didn't get any new friends at the deadline, Yzerman needs to blow this team up because they are even more mentally fragile than they're showing in this 7 game skid.

 

[Snuggs]

Stevie signed Patrick friggin Kane. It didn't happen at the deadline but it's on a one-year deal.

The other, and I believe more realistic scenario, is everyone knows this is a rebuilding team. It's a playoff bubble team that's first round fodder at best. That's the ceiling with this roster. So come deadline time it's not about adding some sexy free agent for 20 games. It's "is Yzerman going to trade the guys on expiring deals to acquire assets?" Because that's the move GMs make when their team still lacks talent.

But he didn't sell anyone. He hung onto assets who almost certainly won't be here next year that he will lose for nothing. That's the vote of confidence. Let's keep this team together and see what we can do.

If this tailspin is a actually a result of them being upset they didn't get any new friends at the deadline, Yzerman needs to blow this team up because they are even more mentally fragile than they're showing in this 7 game skid.

This is way too simple and you're letting him off the hook.

We know why Yzerman did what he did, you don't need to explain it.

What you should be explaining is how that is right or good so far and was it the best choice? If it was, I'd like you to explain to me, especially with hindsight now, why it's such a great idea Yzerman did what he did. Cause, it looks stupid so far... and no I'm not saying Yzerman's stupid or should be fired but damnit, the guy isn't perfect either and when are people going to stop giving excuses/reasoning.

Like maybe put his feet to the fire a little like Michigan did Harbaugh(not threaten to fire but just some open criticism) and idk... maybe squeeze that greatness out. IMO, even if Red Wings bombed next year, pick top 5, Yzerman would still be brought back for another season. Idk when accountability starts to kick in. It's almost like this guy still have 4-5 years at least to just do whatever he wants(goodorbad).

 

[heyfolks]

Rasmussen is the king of only doing one thing on offense, dump, chase, be the last one there, attempt to recover, repeat. He has zero grit, worse hands and is a bottom line PK forward.

No guts, no speed, no job!

This teams needs CENTERS! Sure they need help at every position, but this team really needs centers.


PS: I still say Copp was the worst signing of the lot. $5.6M?!?!?! He's the 3rd highest paid Wing, 2nd until they traded for the imp. He was supposed to be a 2nd line center. He is barely a 3rd line center.

Red Wings sign center Andrew Copp to five-year deal

Ann Arbor native and Michigan product will fill Detroit's second-line center spot.

www.mlive.com

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

This is way too simple and you're letting him off the hook.

We know why Yzerman did what he did, you don't need to explain it.

What you should be explaining is how that is right or good so far and was it the best choice? If it was, I'd like you to explain to me, especially with hindsight now, why it's such a great idea Yzerman did what he did. Cause, it looks stupid so far... and no I'm not saying Yzerman's stupid or should be fired but damnit, the guy isn't perfect either and when are people going to stop giving excuses/reasoning.

Like maybe put his feet to the fire a little like Michigan did Harbaugh and idk... maybe squeeze that greatness out.

I didn't think I need to explain it because this 7 game skid should make it glaringly obvious this isn't a roster worth giving up assets for to bring in a guy for 20 games.

As Lalonde and others have said "the playoffs start now." It's not just that the Wings are a total shitshow. Other teams are making a push to secure the final playoff spot. Yes Larkin is out but outside of a few players, this team has no other gear. Bringing in a Toffoli for 20 games doesn't change that.

I get that you're upset and want to blame Yzerman. That doesn't mean I have to come up with reasons for you when I don't believe them. You really think some public sentiment is necessary to squeeze the greatness out of Yzerman?? What have you been watching for the last 40 years? Whether his moves are genius or terrible, whether I agree or disagree, I don't doubt he's working his hardest and doing what he thinks is best.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Rasmussen is the king of only doing one thing on offense, dump, chase, be the last one there, attempt to recover, repeat. He has zero grit, worse hands and is a bottom line PK forward.

No guts, no speed, no job!

This teams needs CENTERS! Sure they need help at every position, but this team really needs centers.


PS: I still say Copp was the worst signing of the lot. $5.6M?!?!?! He's the 3rd highest paid Wing, 2nd until they traded for the imp. He was supposed to be a 2nd line center. He is barely a 3rd line center.

Red Wings sign center Andrew Copp to five-year deal

Ann Arbor native and Michigan product will fill Detroit's second-line center spot.

www.mlive.com

For me the worst signing is still Holl. You have to take context into account regarding that article and remember the roster at the time. Yes they said he'd be the 2nd line center then but there's a reason Yzerman brought in Compher.

Copp is Zadina-level inept when it comes to offense, but he is defensively responsible and key on faceoffs and PK. To be clear, it's not that I think Copp is great but the biggest problem this team has had most of the year is keeping the puck out of their own net, not scoring.

In the list of issues with the roster, he's not near the top for me.

 

[SirloinUB]

Without these last 7 games included, I find it really hard to believe those stats prior to the Florida game this month.

Any links or something where I can look these numbers up? (I'm actually curious).

I think its important to bare in mind, this team has been structured around playing low event games so these statistics don't tell the whole story. You know the old "Limit opportunities against, place safe, conservative hockey, and pounce when the chance presents its self". This approach doesn't reflect well in these kinds of stats.

Anyway, I don't know how to look up historical data from some past date on this but here is the current state:

Loading…

moneypuck.com

Additionally, here are two points of reference from February:

 

[Snuggs]

I didn't think I need to explain it because this 7 game skid should make it glaringly obvious this isn't a roster worth giving up assets for to bring in a guy for 20 games.

As Lalonde and others have said "the playoffs start now." It's not just that the Wings are a total shitshow. Other teams are making a push to secure the final playoff spot. Yes Larkin is out but outside of a few players, this team has no other gear. Bringing in a Toffoli for 20 games doesn't change that.

I get that you're upset and want to blame Yzerman. That doesn't mean I have to come up with reasons for you when I don't believe them. You really think some public sentiment is necessary to squeeze the greatness out of Yzerman?? What have you been watching for the last 40 years? Whether his moves are genius or terrible, whether I agree or disagree, I don't doubt he's working his hardest and doing what he thinks is best.

Well I'm definitely blaming Yzerman for the current roster, there's no one else to blame. Again. it wasn't just buy... it was that he stood still, could have sold. Maybe making room for prospects to play (good one's) was just as good as a TDL addition in some people's eyes. Yzerman did neither. I said even prior to TDL being over that a direction either way was better than no direction. That was before lengthy losing streak. Soooo, many assets are going to walk for nothing if things didn't go exactly right for the Red Wings.

No one suggesting he's not trying or doing his best. What the heck. It's just criticism for what looks like a major mis-que by him. It's not always this huge red line approach... It's just saying, MAN, he screwed up. I bet he'd do it different now and going forward I wonder what he's going to do with the team now that it's CLEARLY being exposed.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Well I'm definitely blaming Yzerman for the current roster, there's no one else to blame. Again. it wasn't just buy... it was that he stood still, could have sold. Maybe making room for prospects to play (good one's) was just as good as a TDL addition in some people's eyes. Yzerman did neither. I said even prior to TDL being over that a direction either way was better than no direction. That was before lengthy losing streak. Soooo, many assets are going to walk for nothing if things didn't go exactly right for the Red Wings.

No one suggesting he's not trying or doing his best. What the heck. It's just criticism for what looks like a major mis-que by him. It's not always this huge red line approach... It's just saying, MAN, he screwed up. I bet he'd do it different now and going forward I wonder what he's going to do with the team now that it's CLEARLY being exposed.

Ah ok. I though you were saying he needed to buy.

Yes he could've sold. In retrospect the scraps he would've gotten for some assets on expiring contracts and pulling the rip cord on the season seems more like the right move. I don't know that anyone could've predicted just how completely this team has collapsed.

But yes if the team is going to turn in these mostly gutless dumpster-fire performances for the rest of the season then sure it would've been better to have a fire sale and get a look at some shiny new toys if it doesn't have too adverse of an affect on their contract.

 

[JoesuffP]

A lot of our scoring is one offs or guys that will be leaving at the end of the year. Will we count on Walman and Veleno to hit 10+ goals again? Will we expect more from Raymond, Debrincat?

 

[SoupGuru]

I don't get this "Yzerman sold the team out by not doing anything at the trade deadline" thing.

I interpreted that as a huge endorsement for Yzerman. "OK, you guys are kicking ass. No one knows exactly how or why, but this team has some magic. I'm not going to mess with it and trust you guys to keep it going." And then the team went to shit. So, who knows.

 

[raymond23]

Berggren practicing as 13th forward

I’m done

 

[KJoe88]

Berggren practicing as 13th forward

I’m done

I mean he’s nothing special

 

[norrisnick]

Yzerman made decisions the past couple of years that aren't working. Making a mistake is fine. The key will be how he addresses the mistakes. If he doubles down with more veteran leadership that isn't leading... Then you start asking questions.

Larkin is Larkin and obviously the most important piece. The next two are Ray and Mo and no one else is particularly close.

Too many of our players are slotted a line or pairing too high.

I mean he’s nothing special

He at least has the potential to maybe be special unlike most of our lineup.

Kane would look just as special on a line with Czarnik and Fischer....

 

[dalem177]

I don't get this "Yzerman sold the team out by not doing anything at the trade deadline" thing.

I interpreted that as a huge endorsement for Yzerman. "OK, you guys are kicking ass. No one knows exactly how or why, but this team has some magic. I'm not going to mess with it and trust you guys to keep it going." And then the team went to shit. So, who knows.

There's also the Random Walk factor to consider. Sometimes the patterns we recognize just... ain't there.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

I think its important to bare in mind, this team has been structured around playing low event games so these statistics don't tell the whole story. You know the old "Limit opportunities against, place safe, conservative hockey, and pounce when the chance presents its self". This approach doesn't reflect well in these kinds of stats.

Anyway, I don't know how to look up historical data from some past date on this but here is the current state:

Loading…

moneypuck.com

Additionally, here are two points of reference from February:

I don't know who that guy is but I think that sums up what's been one of their most obvious problems in this skid.

They just don't create enough in transition but they make it super easy for opponents to do the same. #LGRW

 

[schuelma24]

Yzerman made decisions the past couple of years that aren't working. Making a mistake is fine. The key will be how he addresses the mistakes. If he doubles down with more veteran leadership that isn't leading... Then you start asking questions.

Larkin is Larkin and obviously the most important piece. The next two are Ray and Mo and no one else is particularly close.

Too many of our players are slotted a line or pairing too high.


He at least has the potential to maybe be special unlike most of our lineup.

Kane would look just as special on a line with Czarnik and Fischer....

I think this hits on things very well. He tried one route - bring along veterans to bridge a gap and provide leadership - and barring a miracle, it didn't work. And as a result, we didn't carry a single rookie this year.

I'm assuming and hoping he realizes he has to shift. Bring in some of the younger guys and let them grow.

The one positive from this year is Raymond has taken a clear step up. I care about his play a hell of a lot more than any of the veterans Yzerman brought in. And he looks like a legit top line winger for a long time. That's good. Get others up and see what you have.

 

[DamonDRW]

If you honestly believe that you were not paying attention. This team was bottom 5 in shots, scoring chances and other underlying metrics all season. This team was riding a high shooting % and an outstanding save % from a career tweener of a goalie for several months.

What you are suggesting with the bolded is flat out wrong.

I was watching games and 30 years trained eye told me that the team was good and winning for a good reason. What happens now is unexplainable. I'm not getting into details but gebrerally no one us playing to his abilities now.

 

[Roomba With a Bauer]

I was watching games and 30 years trained eye told me that the team was good and winning for a good reason. What happens now is unexplainable. I'm not getting into details but gebrerally no one us playing to his abilities now.

It's eminently explainable:

1. Team lost two very important games in a row, getting smashed by two experienced teams playing in playoffs mode
After which
2. Their captain got injured
After which
3. Their GM told them he had no expectations of them in the postseason.

Everything after that is just moss on the boulder. This is the time of year when intensity rises and our team just doesn't have it, and we have a dead fish of a coach who continues to give the absolute worst statements after each game.

 

[Snuggs]

I don't get this "Yzerman sold the team out by not doing anything at the trade deadline" thing.

I interpreted that as a huge endorsement for Yzerman. "OK, you guys are kicking ass. No one knows exactly how or why, but this team has some magic. I'm not going to mess with it and trust you guys to keep it going." And then the team went to shit. So, who knows.

Lol, kicking ass getting WHOOPed by Fla/Col walking into the TDL with a Larkin injury.

This wasn't the narrative. Smoke was rising before the fire.