Post-Game Talk: GAME #52: Canucks 5 @ Avalanche 1 (Boeser, Virtanen, Goldobin, Roussel, Motte)

[Megaterio Llamas]

Whats he saying now

He sees the Canucks maybe trading a pick to try to make the playoffs.

 

[Horse McHindu]

Most Canuck posters had two thumbs down on the deal that brought Motte from Columbus for Vanek. But hard to argue that he's a perfect bottom-six forward at this point.

Exactly.

 

[Horse McHindu]

Greiss signed a 1 year/$800k deal that summer. He was signing for anyone who put $1 million in front of him.

I pushed for signing him at the time and said that both he and Lack were as likely to deliver average goaltending as Miller and was absolutely correct ... so I don’t have a lot of time or sympathy for the notion that we absolutely HAD to have Miller.

Stralman and Niskanen were the biggest names and both have been home runs for their teams on friendly deals. I really wanted Stralman and the Sedins probably would have had some pull there. Plus there was the trade market.

My props to you for calling the Greiss thing if you actually did that. The tricky thing with career back ups, is that you’re taking a bit of a risk in bringing them in for a promotion (to either a starting goalie or a “1A” goalie). How many times have we seen great back ups such as Talbot, Grubbauer, and Eddie Lack be great career back ups, only to end up as struggling 1A goalies?

Benning saw a need to pay a premium price for a proven starter that could allow Lack and Markstrom to develop more comfortably (and for a guy that wanted to be on the West coast) and so he made the pitch.

As far as Stralman and Niskanen go, we have to realize that elite teams (or teams trending upwards) are always going to have bigger opportunities to sign guys at cap friendly deals. For teams trending downwards like the Canucks were at that time, signing players at relative cap friendly deals are an extremely difficult (even unrealistic) task.

Aside from all this, do we even know if Greiss, Stralman, and Niskanen were interested in heading out west? (Barring an overpayment?)

 

[Ainec]

Motte is a great return for Vanek if this team was lacking that bottom six forward and depth for a deep playoffs run

unfortunately a 2nd round draft pick is more much valuable

 

[Eddy Punch Clock]

Nurse Petey?

He's gonna heal Boeser's hand with his glorious aura.

That's the Swedish touch.

 

[Cogburn]

More of that please.

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

That's the Swedish touch.

Shut up Eddie....

 

[Star Ocean]

It's a long season when the bottom lines can show up like that why not give your stars an easy night .

Yeah it is not like they had 2 weeks of rest recently. Pettersson has played 3 games in one month.

 

[Intangibos]

we have a m2b esque mod already

m2b would be a great mod

I would be an excellent mod, my experience walking the line gives me the valuable experience of knowing who is crossing it.

Don't wanna be though

Which is convenient because I will never be!

 

[JAK]

It's not really a terrible way to look at things. If a player scores his goals in a small cluster of games, while remaining ineffective in a large minority or possibly even majority, it is usually a good indicator of slowing down or being unable to sustain consistent play.

Perfect example: Schaller. Dude is trash.

Relatively similar examples: Virtanen can never string together a good 20-30 game stretch, but will have 5-10 game stretches where he looks great and then periods of ineffectiveness after.

Gudbranson had one good stretch lasting more than 10 games in his career - the playoffs before we traded for him when he was playing 26 minutes a night. (Although, some may argue he wasn't even good while playing those minutes)

But you get my point.

Schaller was always going to be that 14th forward, press box sitting player.

I would rather it be him, than any kids that are playing well in Utica who needs the ice time.

As for salary, it isn't out of our pocket, and we have the cap space. Who cares?

 

[DomY]

Motte is a great return for Vanek if this team was lacking that bottom six forward and depth for a deep playoffs run

unfortunately a 2nd round draft pick is more much valuable

When was this ever on the table

 

[Scumbag Frank]

Amused by this board ad

 

[PuckMunchkin]

When was this ever on the table

It would have been decent value for the season Vanek was having.

 

[Regal]

Honestly, when you give a 30 y/o pest a $12 million deal for 4 years with a NTC coming off a season where he finished it with 50 games without scoring ... and then promptly has the best offensive season of his career, it’s probably just dumb luck.

Have said a million times that basically everything Benning does is betting on a low-percentage outcome. And when you make 10 moves that all have only a 10% chance of working out but one of those 10 does hit (as numbers will dictate probably happens) ... it doesn’t mean it was a good move grounded in sound logic.

His scoring this season isn't out of line with the majority of his Stars career. He had one bad year where he shot far below his career average, but his underlying numbers suggested a bounceback. He's still not a player you give a 4 year deal to at 29 (not 30), but his season shouldn't be at all surprising.

 

[Regal]

It would have been decent value for the season Vanek was having.

Only garnered a 3rd the year before despite a better season, and keeps signing these cheap, 1 year deals because no one seems to want him anymore

 

[Var]

Anyone see if there were postgame comments by TG? Don't see any

 

[topched88]

Anyone see if there were postgame comments by TG? Don't see any

Saw some tweets. Said happy with everyone, specifically named goldy Jake and motte

 

[TruGr1t]

Amazing that this team is in a playoff spot with Gudbranson and Pouliot as regulars. Gotta keep bringing this up, but you really have to wonder how good this team would be if they just made the easy moves and replaced both of them. The team actually plays really well when these two aren't on the ice.

It isn't really amazing if you look around the league. As noted, the Canucks are not on pace to be a particularly better team this year statistically. It's just that the teams around them are objectively performing at a lower level and thus the point projection needed to make the playoffs is lower.

I suppose maintaining a rather sub-par level of performance while everyone around you gets worse is some sort of accomplishment.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

It isn't really amazing if you look around the league. As noted, the Canucks are not on pace to be a particularly better team this year statistically. It's just that the teams around them are objectively performing at a lower level and thus the point projection needed to make the playoffs is lower.

I suppose maintaining a rather sub-par level of performance while everyone around you gets worse is some sort of accomplishment.

I think it’s about expectations. With the Sedins retiring the team was picked by most experts to be in the running for Jack Hughes. Looking at the roster no one expected much scoring. A lot of that can be attributed to EP but not all of it.
The goaltending was also seen as a huge weakness coming into the season. Markstrom has seen a huge improvement.
I also think the bottom six has improved. Roussell and Beagle have made a big difference even though the Beagle contract will likely be a problem down the road.
Watching this team it’s easy to see how they could take the next step with a couple more competent defensemen. It’s harder to see how they become a true contender but it’s pretty easy to see them as a playoff team with a couple of additions.
I don’t see our current management being able to get the team to the top level but at least there’s some light at the end of the tunnel. Still a lot that could go wrong though as we’ve seen with other franchises who have drafted some good players but still can’t get to the next level. Colorado is a good example.

 

[MS]

My props to you for calling the Greiss thing if you actually did that. The tricky thing with career back ups, is that you’re taking a bit of a risk in bringing them in for a promotion (to either a starting goalie or a “1A” goalie). How many times have we seen great back ups such as Talbot, Grubbauer, and Eddie Lack be great career back ups, only to end up as struggling 1A goalies?

Benning saw a need to pay a premium price for a proven starter that could allow Lack and Markstrom to develop more comfortably (and for a guy that wanted to be on the West coast) and so he made the pitch.

As far as Stralman and Niskanen go, we have to realize that elite teams (or teams trending upwards) are always going to have bigger opportunities to sign guys at cap friendly deals. For teams trending downwards like the Canucks were at that time, signing players at relative cap friendly deals are an extremely difficult (even unrealistic) task.

Aside from all this, do we even know if Greiss, Stralman, and Niskanen were interested in heading out west? (Barring an overpayment?)

Greiss surely would have gone to whoever gave him the best deal. Stralman I think we would have had a strong shot. Niskanen highly unlikely - high-profile US free agents don’t sign in Western Canada.

Miller had been an average goalie for years and continued (predictably) to be an average goalie. Paying a premium for an old average goalie when we already had a young average goalie and other average goalies were available for cheap was idiotic. Especially with the way the blueline looked.

 

[Hit the post]

Paying a premium for an old average goalie when we already had a young average goalie and other average goalies were available for cheap was idiotic. Especially with the way the blueline looked.

I mean what other west coast team was exactly interested in Miller's services at the time (so that he could be near his wife in Hollywood) at least to the point of offering him that lucrative deal? Certainly not the Kings [Quick]. Doubt the Sharks [Neimi] or Ducks [Anderson]. Who does that leave?

 

[TruGr1t]

I think it’s about expectations.

This is all well and good, but the fact is the Canucks are not statistically a materially better team than they were the past two years. And that's despite Pettersson's impact. The only reason anyone is talking about playoffs is because the rest of the conference took a nose dive. Nothing to do with Vancouver actually demonstrating any meaningful improvement.

 

[alternate]

Miller was signed to give Markstrom time to rebuild his game after his development had been badly mismanaged. I like how MS seems to he suggesting that if only that cap space had been directed to a defender we would have been a contender or something. I mean if that isn't what he's suggesting, it's time to accept that the end goal of signing Miller (strong goalie pipeline when the team returns to competiveness) has succeeded brilliantly.

 

[MS]

Miller was signed to give Markstrom time to rebuild his game after his development had been badly mismanaged. I like how MS seems to he suggesting that if only that cap space had been directed to a defender we would have been a contender or something. I mean if that isn't what he's suggesting, it's time to accept that the end goal of signing Miller (strong goalie pipeline when the team returns to competiveness) has succeeded brilliantly.

There is zero connection between having Miller as our goalie in 14-15 and Markstrom being good now and having any other goalie here at that time. What, Markstrom would suck now if Greiss had been starting games in Vancouver in 14-15 while Markstrom was in Utica?

And yes, we probably win at least a playoff series in 2015 if Benning correctly addresses our defense instead of goaltending. And since Benning’s whole plan was to compete immediatelty, this is what he should be judged against. You’re moving the goalposts hilariously here.

 

[I in the Eye]

Running with Lack and Markstrom was always the way to go... have them fight over who gets #1. Markstrom's emergence as #1 just proves one was capable and drills home the point that running with Lack and Markstrom was always the way to go.