GDT: Game 49: Avs vs Predators | 1 PM MT | January 21, 2019 | I Have a Dream of Consecutive Wins

[klozge]

I agree with both Waingro and CobraAcesS. Avs need to clean up their defensive play but at least sometimes your goalie just needs to bail you out after a mistake. I'm not even blaming Varly personally because I think it has become obvious something's bothering him but we just can't expect this (or any other) team to never make a mistake in 60 minutes of hockey. Avs played a great game (until the 3:1 broke them), they dominated, they made two bad decisions and the game was already over.

And yes, I'm not a Jesse fan anyway but the latest podcast was special, even for his standards.

 

[Hesher]

That was vintage Peter Budaj out there yesterday. A brutal unscreened five-hole goal followed up by a wraparound goal where he was roughly half a day late coming across. Just get rid of Varly and see what you have in Grubauer and Francouz.

 

[Bender]

It's very rare a coach will pull a goalie after two goals.

Oh I realize that but it's all about having a pulse about what's going on with your team on the ice. Varly was very shaky in the first and he wasn't even tested with a lot of point blank-great scoring chances. As a coach, you HAVE to make a mental note of that. Then the Bonino goal happened and yes, it was a turnover by Zadorov but as has been pointed out by many, mistakes like that do happen to even the best players in the league. In any case, I don't remember the last time our team scored on a completely uncontested, unscreened shot some 30 feet out with a weak shot. That has to be a routine save by Varly. Again as a coach, mental note. Then when you see how badly he was beaten by the Arvidsson wrap-around, that HAD to be the last straw and I don't care if you've got Kent frikkin' Patterson as the back-up, you make the change at that time.

 

[the_fan]

The problem isn't just one thing with this team. Again, when things are bad like this, there is confidence issue throughout the lineup. The team doesn't have confidence in goalies and vice versa. They are again playing the game not to lose instead of win, players turn on the coach, everything just becomes a mess.

Let's face it, this is a real issue and I don't think its suddenly gonna get better where this team goes on big win streaks the rest of the season. They just have to ride this out, and the only person who can fix this problem is Sakic in the offseason.

First of all, need to get rid of complete useless players like Nieto, Andrighetto, Bourque and whoever else I'm forgetting, need to build a entire 2nd line, and fix the goaltending issue. I'd say defense is ok for now even without a true #1, we'll see how Makar helps the D, but those other areas need to be fixed

 

[Pokecheque]

Change what on the second unit? Swap out one borderline NHLer for another? I remember when many here were saying FINALLY when coach paired Carl with JT and Wilson on the second line and they had a good game. It was as if anybody could see that happening but what have they done since? Too much credo is given to Bednar's options. They are very limited, the cupboard is bare. Sorry to say

The 2nd unit power play was way more effective than the first to start the year.

There are a lot of things they could try. I get options are limited, this team simply doesn't have the depth. That said, they still have a lot more things they could adjust in terms of personnel or tactics. They could move JTC back to the 2nd unit, try Wilson on the 1st again. They could use two defenders on the points and make adjustments accordingly. They could get more bodies to the front of the net (something the 2nd unit did phenomenally to start, and has completely forgotten and now just tries to snipe the perfect shot like the 1st unit). Hell, they could even try Big Z on one of the points, I'd rather have him there than Ghetto. Lots of things they can tweak/try, they just refuse to do it.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

Jeez, what an overreaction. Did I forget my pitchfork when I called the same goal you’re complaining about a soft goal?

The goaltending has been a huge problem since December, but it’s all I see anyone talk about. No one talks about the countless turnovers this team has every game, especially when they give up the first goal. They're both big problems.

Nobody is dismissing the bad defensive plays. Of course there are defensive breakdowns. No teams play perfect games. What a team wants and needs to do is to limit those grade A chances during a game. Watch the game again and you will see that the Avs had way way more grade A chances than the Preds. The difference is that their goalie bailed them out. Same for the Jets game. Same for the Flames game. Same for most of the games since early Dec. Nobody is also denying that they had some bad games as a team during that stretch. No teams play well all the time even the best teams like TBL. They all have stinkers. What some of us are saying, and others that were blaming Bednar are starting seeing as well, is that when this team make a mistake, be it giving a grade A or very often just a B chance, it ends up in the back of the net.

Last week I showed the difference in SV% for our goalies during that stretch vs the beginning of the year. It was night and day. I think it was hooverdam that showed shot suppression during that stretch as well. Overall the Avs were towards the top of the league. This team has played very well overall during that stretch. Have they had stinkers offensively and/or defensively? Of course they have. I wouldn't expect them not to. All teams do.

Again they need the goalies to bail them out once in a while with very good goaltending and most of the time give them decent goaltending. Just like the team goalies will have stinkers as well. It is understandable. We are not asking them to be perfect but they could steal us a game sometimes and at least be decent in most of the other ones.

 

[hooverdam]

When you have the puck a lot, you tend to turn it over more. When you're always chasing the puck and trying to get possession, you don't commit turnovers as much because you don't have the puck to give away. Which way do people want the team to play?

@CobraAcesS is right. Every mistake the team makes winds up in the back of the net because of how weak the goaltending is; the Avs aren't committing more mistakes than other teams, they're just paying dearly for them.

 

[dahrougem2]

Make no mistake about it, that turnover by Zadorov was awful. Just awful. He can't do that. But the goal allowed by Varlamov was even worse. ECHL goalies make that save.

The 2nd goal was no better, either. I don't want to hear about how Arvidsson faked Varlamov out at the goal line. Look at how ****ing out of position Varlamov was on the play. Arvidsson literally could have gone around the net, stopped, cleaned his visor and still would have had enough time to put it in the net.

 

[Pokecheque]

It's not like people didn't see it coming. Even Moser on the radio was commenting on how shaky Varly looked in the net early on.

 

[Ceremony]

Looking forward to wasting the primes of two 100 point players as we spend several years trying to find someone who's better than Peter Budaj

But HF always tells me goalies aren't important on Cup-winners

 

[S3rkie]

You can’t be serious. Bednar’s response to the question “I’d like to see Cole break off a little earlier to protect the net front and I’d like to see Varly get over there”. Sorta like the order it happened in. No?

The point is watch that play again and tell which you think was a more egregious mistake. When someone asks you who was more at fault on that goal I sure as shit hope you don't say Cole just as much as Varly. Just about every NHL goalie cuts off wraparound plays 99 out of 100 times. How many has Varly let in this year? Bednar is a bizarre coach, certain players can keep on not executing but as soon as a guy like Z has a bad few games he comments on it publicly and benches him for entire games. I just think he's a bit out of his league in some areas.

 

[Foppa2118]

I think it is getting skewed because our mistakes cost us every single time. Other teams make just as many mistakes or more and we still come out on the loosing end. No team in the NHL plays a perfect game.

I'm kind of sick of the three mistakes the defense makes in a game becoming so completely polarizing.

Goal-tending is all anyone talks about because it is infuriating, and killing the teams confidence. As well as their playoff hopes. It is just unacceptable plain and simple.

Did you see how many times Subban was made to look like a fool? That is supposed to be a Norris caliber defender. Did you see how many times Doughty was smoked in LA? I think in the last two games both of those guys made more mistakes in a single game than our entire ****ing defense did all game.

If you want to feel good about your argument, go listen to the last BSN pod. Jesse talks for an hour about how we make costly mistakes, and even out right says they need to play a perfect game. I wanted to choke the life out of him, but you may enjoy it.

You are right they've laid some eggs over the past couple of months as a team defensively, but in a lot of these games the team has been very good as a whole. I'd even argue they've played some of their best games of the year team wide in losses.

Just to be clear, let me preface this again by saying the goaltending has probably been their single biggest problem since early December, and Varly was not good again in this game.

That said, I keep seeing people saying the team is playing fine. It's not playing fine. These are not the kind of preventable positional mistakes and turnovers that good teams make, and they're not a result of just having the puck more.

They're a result of giving the puck away unnecessarily and making games harder than they need to be. Good teams do not play this way consistently like the Avs have for about a month now.

The Avs shouldn't have to play a perfect game every night to win, but they're playing pretty far form perfect hockey.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Just to be clear, let me preface this again by saying the goaltending has probably been their single biggest problem since early December, and Varly was not good again in this game.

That said, I keep seeing people saying the team is playing fine. It's not playing fine. These are not the kind of preventable positional mistakes and turnovers that good teams make, and they're not a result of just having the puck more.

They're a result of giving the puck away unnecessarily and making games harder than they need to be. Good teams do not play this way consistently like the Avs have for about a month now.

The Avs shouldn't have to play a perfect game every night to win, but they're playing pretty far form perfect hockey.

I know you put a lot of work into that, and I'd love to do this my self, but.. I'd challenge you to go do the same thing to a Tampa Bay game (or any of the top teams). I'm fairly confident you'd find plenty of those things to highlight. One of the biggest difference is their goal-tending. I was thinking of looking at high danger chances, but then I read a story about how inconsistent and flawed the rules for judging scoring chances are. What I can tell you is that a on NaturalStatTrick, a lot of times the numbers are pretty close within one or two even in games that feel like we dominated vs ones we got completely smoked. So in my mind it falls to close to a margin of error.

I mean in science you need more than one group for comparison. The other option might be to do the same thing for Preds in that game.

 

[Foppa2118]

I know you put a lot of work into that, and I'd love to do this my self, but.. I'd challenge you to go do the same thing to a Tampa Bay game (or any of the top teams). I'm fairly confident you'd find plenty of those things to highlight. One of the biggest difference is their goal-tending. I was thinking of looking at high danger chances, but then I read a story about how inconsistent and flawed the rules for judging scoring chances are. What I can tell you is that a on NaturalStatTrick, a lot of times the numbers are pretty close within one or two even in games that feel like we dominated vs ones we got completely smoked. So in my mind it falls to close to a margin of error.

I mean in science you need more than one group for comparison.

The goaltending is absolutely a difference between the Avs and a lot of top teams right now. And you may be able to find a game every once in a while, where good teams like Tampa make bad turnovers like that a lot in a game. But you're not going to find good teams that make those mistakes consistently.

The Avs were actually better against the Preds than they have been during a lot of those games in December and early January. They cleaned up the bad penalties in this game that have been giving them problems. They didn't have a slow start like they did for a stretch in December. They didn't even have as many positionial mistakes as they have recently.

But if it's not one thing it's another that's hurting this team now, and the turnovers were still present in this game. Just regular turnovers are to be expected, especially off good defensive efforts, but the preventable ones are not. A few max in a game is what you expect from a good team, but the Avs just have too many. The more preventable mistakes you make, the more likely it is you'll be digging the puck out of your net eventually.

It's not absolving the goalies from blame, but there are problems with the way the team is playing. Especially when they give up the first goal. Only two of those turnovers happened in the first period. In the second period when Zadorov and Varly gave up the early goal, they got away from their system, and the good puck management they have when they're playing well. It's a mental problem that mostly falls on the players shoulders, but some has to fall on the coaching staff for not cleaning up these mistakes.

Also, I didn't put too much effort into it. It only took me about an hour, but I obviously had to watch the whole game too. I just almost didn't post it after our last exchange, but changed my mind because I think it's important to show the mistakes this team is making, in addition to the mistakes from goaltenders.

 

[Pokecheque]

The two are sometimes mutually exclusive--the team plays better hockey when they know the guy playing behind them can make a damned save when he needs to.

 

[dahrougem2]

Delete

 

[Foppa2118]

The two are sometimes mutually exclusive--the team plays better hockey when they know the guy playing behind them can make a damned save when he needs to.

Them getting away from their system, and gripping their sticks too tight, is definitely attributable in part to having a "here we go again" mentality when one of their goalies gives up a bad goal, or even just the first goal.

So that as well lies partially on the goaltenders backs, but ask any coach or player if that's an excuse, and they'll tell you no. They can't control the goaltending. They can control how they manage the puck. Good teams stay composed and stick to the system after giving up the first goal, but the Avs don't have that mentality right now. They start scrambling and making their jobs harder.

 

[The Abusement Park]

The goaltending is absolutely a difference between the Avs and a lot of top teams right now. And you may be able to find a game every once in a while, where good teams like Tampa make bad turnovers like that a lot in a game. But you're not going to find good teams that make those mistakes consistently.

The Avs were actually better against the Preds than they have been during a lot of those games in December and early January. They cleaned up the bad penalties in this game that have been giving them problems. They didn't have a slow start like they did for a stretch in December. They didn't even have as many positionial mistakes as they have recently.

But if it's not one thing it's another that's hurting this team now, and the turnovers were still present in this game. Just regular turnovers are to be expected, especially off good defensive efforts, but the preventable ones are not. A few max in a game is what you expect from a good team, but the Avs just have too many. The more preventable mistakes you make, the more likely it is you'll be digging the puck out of your net eventually.

It's not absolving the goalies from blame, but there are problems with the way the team is playing. Especially when they give up the first goal. Only two of those turnovers happened in the first period. In the second period when Zadorov and Varly gave up the early goal, they got away from their system, and the good puck management they have when they're playing well. It's a mental problem that mostly falls on the players shoulders, but some has to fall on the coaching staff for not cleaning up these mistakes.

Also, I didn't put too much effort into it. It only took me about an hour, but I obviously had to watch the whole game too. I just almost didn't post it after our last exchange, but changed my mind because I think it's important to show the mistakes this team is making, in addition to the mistakes from goaltenders.

I think part of the mental issues with the team are that they can’t trust the goalies to save anything.

I’ve never really played hockey but as a soccer player it’s probably a pretty similar feeling when you know your goalie sucks. It really throws you off your game. And on the flip side I know how hard it is as I got moved to goalie. When you have a stretch of bad games where you know that your part of the reason your team is losing it really f***s with your mental.

 

[Pokecheque]

Them getting away from their system, and gripping their sticks too tight, is definitely attributable in part to having a "here we go again" mentality when one of their goalies gives up a bad goal, or even just the first goal.

So that as well lies partially on the goaltenders backs, but ask any coach or player if that's an excuse, and they'll tell you no. They can't control the goaltending. They can control how they manage the puck. Good teams stay composed and stick to the system after giving up the first goal, but the Avs don't have that mentality right now. They start scrambling and making their jobs harder.

Dude, I'm not about to go off of what a hockey player or coach will or won't admit to. Obviously they'd say no if asked, but I wouldn't believe them for a moment.

Case in point--the team played tentatively and slow in front of Grubauer in at least two of his starts, and those times they swapped him out in favor of Francouz they flipped the switch. They also deflated big-time after dominating the Preds on the shot clock and then Varly let's that softie in (and as I had pointed out he was still looking bad on the few saves he had to make

This is a young team, a VERY young team. They're prone to mental breakdowns and mistakes. They need a veteran goalie to settle things down and even bail them out from time to time. They have TWO such goalies and neither of them are doing the job they're being tasked. It goes both ways--yes, they have had some egregious lapses defensively, but they've also had some piss-poor play from their goalies.

At some point, something's gotta give. If BOTH goalies are playing this poorly under Parkkila, then fire his ass and bring in someone else. They could also give Frankie ONE GODDAMN START and see what happens.

I'll say it here, if they blow this homestand, they'll miss the playoffs. And I'll seriously lose a lot of faith in coaching and management if they just stand idly by when they could have made moves to try and right the ship without sacrificing major assets.

 

[Foppa2118]

Dude, I'm not about to go off of what a hockey player or coach will or won't admit to. Obviously they'd say no if asked, but I wouldn't believe them for a moment.

Case in point--the team played tentatively and slow in front of Grubauer in at least two of his starts, and those times they swapped him out in favor of Francouz they flipped the switch. They also deflated big-time after dominating the Preds on the shot clock and then Varly let's that softie in (and as I had pointed out he was still looking bad on the few saves he had to make

This is a young team, a VERY young team. They're prone to mental breakdowns and mistakes. They need a veteran goalie to settle things down and even bail them out from time to time. They have TWO such goalies and neither of them are doing the job they're being tasked. It goes both ways--yes, they have had some egregious lapses defensively, but they've also had some piss-poor play from their goalies.

At some point, something's gotta give. If BOTH goalies are playing this poorly under Parkkila, then fire his ass and bring in someone else. They could also give Frankie ONE GODDAMN START and see what happens.

I'll say it here, if they blow this homestand, they'll miss the playoffs. And I'll seriously lose a lot of faith in coaching and management if they just stand idly by when they could have made moves to try and right the ship without sacrificing major assets.

That's why I said the blame for the team getting away from their game is partially the goaltenders fault as well. For the same reasons that you and Abusement Park mentioned.

But you can't absolve the players from these mistakes, any more than you can absolve the goalies for bad goals, just because there's bad turnovers. They're each responsible for their own jobs.

 

[Pokecheque]

That's why I said the blame for the team getting away from their game is partially the goaltenders fault as well. For the same reasons that you and Abusement Park mentioned.

But you can't absolve the players from these mistakes, any more than you can absolve the goalies for bad goals, just because there's bad turnovers. They're each responsible for their own jobs.

Okay, I get that, no one on here is saying otherwise.

But I'm saying it's a lot easier for them to fix the goaltending issue (or at least there is a POSSIBILITY of a quick fix) whereas the other issue will either be fixed over time as guys like Nemeth and Barberio are phased out (and if they're not, then that speaks to a much, much larger problem). And if you fix the goaltending, you'll probably get this team into the win column more often than not, especially if they also fix the power play, which irks me a HELL of a lot more than the goalies playing like garbage.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Yes the team is making mistakes don’t think anyone will disagree. But at no point is an .860 sv% acceptable. Especially over the course of a month and a half that’s a goalie issue more than it is a team issue.

 

[HartKinnon]

I might be wrong on this one but it's not the amount of the turnovers which is hurting the Avs but it is the stuff that happens after those turnovers. I don't have stats to back me up because it is a eye test thingy but it seems like after the turnovers happen the Avs are very slow to react after that. We have guys defending the same guy and because of that there is guy somewhere wide open where as when a good team commits a turnover againts Avs there isn't much room or wide open guys. Usually the front of the net is packed with defending players quite fast after the turnover and there isn't room for Avs players to bury in the rebounds. I don't know if the Avs have too much distance between defenders and forwards when breaking out of the zone but for some reason we don't get the support in the d-zone quickly enough.

 

[Foppa2118]

Okay, I get that, no one on here is saying otherwise.

But I'm saying it's a lot easier for them to fix the goaltending issue (or at least there is a POSSIBILITY of a quick fix) whereas the other issue will either be fixed over time as guys like Nemeth and Barberio are phased out (and if they're not, then that speaks to a much, much larger problem). And if you fix the goaltending, you'll probably get this team into the win column more often than not, especially if they also fix the power play, which irks me a HELL of a lot more than the goalies playing like garbage.

I wouldn't say the goaltending is easier to fix, because I don't see a lot of great options out there, but it is one player versus multiple skaters making mistakes. So in that sense I think you're right. Fixing the goaltending will no doubtably have the bigger effect as well.

 

[Metallo]

Did they have a players-only meeting yet?