GDT: Game 41: Sharks @ Maple Leafs 4:00pm NBCSCA

[Anomie2029]

I kind of agree. Chicago players are basically playing with a chip on their shoulders. The SJ guys, it seems are still convinced the names on their jersey mean eventually they’ll thrive.

Yes… nothing to do with the coach…

I hear Teflon are reaching out to Quinn to discover his secret.

 

[TheBeard]

Yes… nothing to do with the coach…

I hear Teflon are reaching out to Quinn to discover his secret.

They’re a veteran team that knows he’s dead man walking. Guys like Granlund and Hoffman and even Hertl shouldn’t need to be babysat every time things go sour. This is how it’s gonna be until they start trading guys.

 

[SJSharksfan39]

Everyone wants the first pick, and I too want the first pick, but the conspiracy theorist in me says the NHL will do everything in it's power to make that pick go to Chicago or anyone but the Sharks. The Lottery is such a crap shoot, and I'm actually still ticked that Chicago won that pick last year, even after the Kyle Beach stuff. What makes this year different?

Maybe I'm just preparing myself to be disappointed on Lottery night when the Sharks don't get the first pick and the reaction in this forum might be as extreme as wanting to burn everything down.

 

[TheBeard]

Everyone wants the first pick, and I too want the first pick, but the conspiracy theorist in me says the NHL will do everything in it's power to make that pick go to Chicago or anyone but the Sharks. The Lottery is such a crap shoot, and I'm actually still ticked that Chicago won that pick last year, even after the Kyle Beach stuff. What makes this year different?

Maybe I'm just preparing myself to be disappointed on Lottery night when the Sharks don't get the first pick and the reaction in this forum might be as extreme as wanting to burn everything down.

Why anyone but the sharks?

 

[SJSharksfan39]

Why anyone but the sharks?

Because the Sharks don't move the Needle for the NHL? I don't know what crazy things happen at the NHL Office. I think they are all dumb and backwards.

 

[Bizz]

Thanks Mario. After all that sticking up I did.
View attachment 799856

Mario's pissing me off. It's almost like he knows he's gonna be traded and is punishing us by playing bad on purpose and tanking his trade value.

 

[Anomie2029]

They’re a veteran team that knows he’s dead man walking. Guys like Granlund and Hoffman and even Hertl shouldn’t need to be babysat every time things go sour. This is how it’s gonna be until they start trading guys.

I’d argue two of the players you listed have played as good as they can be expected with the current systems.

What’s a bigger issue is allowing veteran players like Kunin and Ferraro consistently stink it up on the ice with literally zero consequences.

There are a number of players on the Sharks team that have a lot to prove and need to earn deals next season. Yet, there is no performance. Why? If they aren’t motivated, scratch them the team is losing anyway.

Mario's pissing me off. It's almost like he knows he's gonna be traded and is punishing us by playing bad on purpose and tanking his trade value.

I mean that’s harsh. He has been awful for the two prior seasons too. This is just the player he is.

 

[fasterthanlight]

Because the Sharks don't move the Needle for the NHL? I don't know what crazy things happen at the NHL Office. I think they are all dumb and backwards.

Small market teams have won the lottery before though. Buffalo had 2, Florida had one, TBL, CBJ, ATL. Obviously Chicago gets preferential treatment and I'm at annoyed as anyone about bedard, but, I think the statistical case for a lottery rigged in favor of big market teams is weak

 

[Bizz]

Everyone wants the first pick, and I too want the first pick, but the conspiracy theorist in me says the NHL will do everything in it's power to make that pick go to Chicago or anyone but the Sharks. The Lottery is such a crap shoot, and I'm actually still ticked that Chicago won that pick last year, even after the Kyle Beach stuff. What makes this year different?

Maybe I'm just preparing myself to be disappointed on Lottery night when the Sharks don't get the first pick and the reaction in this forum might be as extreme as wanting to burn everything down.

didn't the NHL make it harder for one team to win the 1st overall lottery consecutively?

 

[fasterthanlight]

Karlsson sucks.

Secondary Norris smh

 

[Barrie22]

As of right, with potential to add to all 3 of these.

5 back of chicago for 2nd last (Chicago is down 2-1 at the end of 2)
6 back of Anaheim for 3rd last (Anaheim is up 5-0 with 12 minutes left in the 3rd)
7 back of Ottawa for 4th last (2-2 with 12 minutes left in the 2nd)

 

[TheBeard]

What’s a bigger issue is allowing veteran players like Kunin and Ferraro consistently stink it up on the ice with literally zero consequences.

Because Quinn rewards effort. We’re a last place team so I’d rather see the guys at least try than whatever we get from Duclair.

 

[SJSharksfan39]

didn't the NHL make it harder for one team to win the 1st overall lottery consecutively?

If they did, then I will be a little more optimistic, but I'm preparing for the worst, hoping for the best.

 

[TheBeard]

Because the Sharks don't move the Needle for the NHL? I don't know what crazy things happen at the NHL Office. I think they are all dumb and backwards.

So not so much “anyone BUT the shark”. More like bigger market appeal. This seems like a good year to let a smaller market win the draft as Celebrini isn’t the same marquee name that Bedard or even Lafreniere were.

didn't the NHL make it harder for one team to win the 1st overall lottery consecutively?

Yeah. It’s called gifting Bedard.

 

[one2gamble]

Small market teams have won the lottery before though. Buffalo had 2, Florida had one, TBL, CBJ, ATL. Obviously Chicago gets preferential treatment and I'm at annoyed as anyone about bedard, but, I think the statistical case for a lottery rigged in favor of big market teams is weak

The Sharks shouldn't be a small market team. They just fluffed their window and spent their first 30 years with a trash marketing department

 

[Jargon]

It’s really a bummer to be this bad and still only have a 25% chance of getting the 1st overall. It’s even more of a bummer to do it in a year where the drop off after 1st is so drastic.

 

[Anomie2029]

Because Quinn rewards effort. We’re a last place team so I’d rather see the guys at least try than whatever we get from Duclair.

I mean, that's simply not true. You can't on one hand say "well the blackhawks are playing with chips on their shoulder, whilst the veteran sharks are not" and follow it by "Quinn rewards effort".

Quin does not reward effort. He may talk like he does, but he simply doesn't.

 

[TheBeard]

I mean, that's simply not true. You can't on one hand say "well the blackhawks are playing with chips on their shoulder, whilst the veteran sharks are not" and follow it by "Quinn rewards effort".

Quin does not reward effort. He may talk like he does, but he simply doesn't.

Well he won’t bench the guys he thinks are trying. But at the same time he can’t just bench all of the vets. It’s an unenviable position of trying to instill some semblance of culture to the younger guys by holding people accountable, yet he also needs to do what he can to maximize the trade value of the rentals. That’s why guys like Eklund and Thrun get punished and guys like Labanc and Vlasic get benched. None of those 4 are trade commodities for very different reasons.

 

[drunksage]

SNOG announcement​

This ain't horseshoes or hand grenades.

#	Date / Opponent​	SNOG Winner(s)​	Result​
1	Oct. 12 vs Golden Knights	NewMuzu24, weastern bias	VGK 4-1
2	Oct. 14 vs Avalanche	none	Avs 2-1 SO
3	Oct. 17 vs Hurricanes	TheBeard	Canes 6-3
4	Oct. 19 vs Bruins	none	Bruins 3-1
5	Oct. 21 at Predators	none	Predators 5-1
6	Oct. 24 at Panthers	weastern bias	Panthers 3-1
7	Oct. 26 at Lightning	Red Light Lover	Lightning 6-0
8	Oct. 27 at Hurricanes	PattyLafontaine	Canes 3-0
9	Oct. 29 at Capitals	none	Capitals 3-1
10	Nov. 2 vs Canucks	none	Canucks 10-1
11	Nov. 4 vs Penguins	none	Penguins 10-2
12	Nov. 7 vs Flyers	Red Light Lover	Sharks 2-1
13	Nov. 9 vs Oilers	none	Sharks 3-2
14	Nov. 10 at Golden Knights	none	VGK 5-0
15	Nov. 12 at Ducks	Skeksis25	Ducks 4-1
16	Nov. 14 vs Panthers	none	Panthers 5-3
17	Nov. 16 vs Blues	none	Sharks 5-1
18	Nov. 20 at Canucks	none	Canucks 3-1
19	Nov. 22 at Kraken	none	Kraken 7-1
20	Nov. 24 vs Canadiens	hockeyCEO, timorous me	Canadiens 3-2 SO
21	Nov. 25 vs Canucks	none	Sharks 4-3
22	Nov. 27 vs Capitals	none	Sharks 2-1
23	Nov. 30 at Bruins	none	Bruins 3-0
24	Dec. 1 at Devils	none	Sharks 6-3
25	Dec. 3 at Rangers	none	Rangers 6-5
26	Dec. 5 at Islanders	Great Makohead Shork	Sharks 5-4 OT
27	Dec. 7 at Red Wings	none	Sharks 6-5 OT
28	Dec. 10 at Golden Knights	none	VGK 5-4 SO
29	Dec. 12 vs Jets	none	Sharks 2-1
30	Dec. 15 at Coyotes	none	Coyotes 1-0
31	Dec. 17 at Avalanche	none	Avalanche 6-2
32	Dec. 19 vs Kings	coooldude	Kings 4-1
33	Dec. 21 vs Coyotes	none	Coyotes 5-2
34	Dec. 23 at Canucks	none	Canucks 7-4
35	Dec. 27 at Kings	none	Kings 5-1
36	Dec. 28 vs Oilers	none	Oilers 5-0
37	Dec. 31 at Avalanche	none	Avalanche 3-1
38	Jan. 2 vs Red Wings	none	Red Wings 5-3
39	Jan. 4 vs Jets	none	Jets 2-1
40	Jan. 6 vs Maple Leafs	fasterthanlight	Maple Leafs 4-1
41	Jan. 9 at Maple Leafs	none	Maple Leafs 7-1

Rank	2023-24 SNOG standings​	# of SNOGs
T-1.	Red Light Lover, weastern bias	2
T-3.	coooldude, fasterthanlight, Great Makohead Shork, hockeyCEO, NewMuzu24, PattyLafontaine, Skeksis25, TheBeard, timorous me	1

 

[Anomie2029]

Well he won’t bench the guys he thinks are trying. But at the same time he can’t just bench all of the vets. It’s an unenviable position of trying to instill some semblance of culture to the younger guys by holding people accountable, yet he also needs to do what he can to maximize the trade value of the rentals. That’s why guys like Eklund and Thrun get punished and guys like Labanc and Vlasic get benched. None of those 4 are trade commodities for very different reasons.

It's honestly baffling the mental gymnastics that are being done to justify Quinn's position.

Here is what we have:
- Hawks are playing better than the Sharks because they have players with a chip on their shoulder and something to prove.
- Quinn doesn't bench players *he thinks* are trying despite them being routinely the worst players on the ice (tonight included).
- Quinn will punish players like Eklund and Thrun because they won't be traded.
- Quinn will bench players like Labanc and Vlasic because they aren't realistically being traded (even though Labanc has been placed on various media outlets players to watch at the trade deadline).
- Quinn isn't punishing or benching players that are trade assets to maximize their trade value, despite him having scratched Hoffman, Duclair, and Zadina this season.

So in order to make the team better, he is punishing younger players that won't be traded in favor of awful players that 'try hard' whilst doing nothing for other vets to 'increase their value' by allowing them to play with no effort (and thereby decreasing their value)?

I mean, that sounds completely ridiculous, doesn't it?

Of course, none of this quite answers why Quinn has done absolutely nothing to address the PK problems. He has maintained the same personnel and system throughout the season. It doesn't address why the DZ system hasn't been changed yet consistently resulting in the Sharks getting hemmed in their own end because they leave weak-side opposition plays completely open.

The Hawks are playing better, not because of "chips on their shoulders" but because they have systems that they are able to be competitive with.

 

[TheBeard]

It's honestly baffling the mental gymnastics that are being done to justify Quinn's position.

Here is what we have:
- Hawks are playing better than the Sharks because they have players with a chip on their shoulder and something to prove.
- Quinn doesn't bench players *he thinks* are trying despite them being routinely the worst players on the ice (tonight included).
- Quinn will punish players like Eklund and Thrun because they won't be traded.
- Quinn will bench players like Labanc and Vlasic because they aren't realistically being traded (even though Labanc has been placed on various media outlets players to watch at the trade deadline).
- Quinn isn't punishing or benching players that are trade assets to maximize their trade value, despite him having scratched Hoffman, Duclair, and Zadina this season.

So in order to make the team better, he is punishing younger players that won't be traded in favor of awful players that 'try hard' whilst doing nothing for other vets to 'increase their value' by allowing them to play with no effort (and thereby decreasing their value)?

I mean, that sounds completely ridiculous, doesn't it?

Of course, none of this quite answers why Quinn has done absolutely nothing to address the PK problems. He has maintained the same personnel and system throughout the season. It doesn't address why the DZ system hasn't been changed yet consistently resulting in the Sharks getting hemmed in their own end because they leave weak-side opposition plays completely open.

The Hawks are playing better, not because of "chips on their shoulders" but because they have systems that they are able to be competitive with.

I never said I thought Quinn was a good coach, but Scotty bowman himself couldn’t make this squad a contender without sacrificing the future. I think his priority is tough love for the young kids who are part of the future and more of a country club atmosphere for the vets on their way out to hopefully get them to light up the scoresheet (the way Hoffman did for a minute despite constant calls for his demotion). Is it a double standard? Sure, but at this point I’m not even sure what you want from this team? Do you want them to win? Lose?

This season was never about how we did in the standings. We all know that. Frankly, I don’t think Quinn cares one way or another about the individual players he knows won’t be around beyond this season (or even next). He doesn’t care if they’re messing up or if they’re thriving, it seems he just wants effort. The players he does care about seem to be the ones that get the most amount of tough love.

 

[Cas]

It’s really a bummer to be this bad and still only have a 25% chance of getting the 1st overall. It’s even more of a bummer to do it in a year where the drop off after 1st is so drastic.

Draft lotteries are just pointless and stupid, and the draft should just be in strict reverse standings order. Anything else is just randomization for the sake of manufactured drama.

That doesn't make it rigged, of course, just stupid.

Well he won’t bench the guys he thinks are trying. But at the same time he can’t just bench all of the vets. It’s an unenviable position of trying to instill some semblance of culture to the younger guys by holding people accountable, yet he also needs to do what he can to maximize the trade value of the rentals. That’s why guys like Eklund and Thrun get punished and guys like Labanc and Vlasic get benched. None of those 4 are trade commodities for very different reasons.

We'll "build culture" when we start having the talent to win games. That's how it always works.

"Good culture" and "good talent" are synonymous.

 

[Anomie2029]

I never said I thought Quinn was a good coach, but Scotty bowman himself couldn’t make this squad a contender without sacrificing the future. I think his priority is tough love for the young kids who are part of the future and more of a country club atmosphere for the vets on their way out to hopefully get them to light up the scoresheet (the way Hoffman did for a minute despite constant calls for his demotion). Is it a double standard? Sure, but at this point I’m not even sure what you want from this team? Do you want them to win? Lose?

This season was never about how we did in the standings. We all know that. Frankly, I don’t think Quinn cares one way or another about the individual players he knows won’t be around beyond this season (or even next). He doesn’t care if they’re messing up or if they’re thriving, it seems he just wants effort. The players he does care about seem to be the ones that get the most amount of tough love.

No one is under the impression that this is a playoff team. However, this team should not be a multiple 10 game losing streak team. This is not a team that should have a -90 goal differential halfway through the season.

The Sharks are a prime example of the "our expectations were low but holy f***" meme.

The funny thing is you keep saying Quinn wants effort, but then that he doesn't care about individual players he knows aren't going to be there. So does he want effort or not? You can't send a message to some whilst they see others not held to the same standard. The only message there is "if I hang around long enough, the same accountability isn't there".

What I would like to see:
- PK changes - personnel or structure (both would be better)
- DZ system changes
- Kunin 4th line or scratch. He shouldn't be any higher.
- Duclair/Hoffman scratched if there isn't improvement. Guschin brought up in their place to reward performance.
- Eklund not benched or demoted for a sole mistake.
- Ferraro scratched.
- Labanc given an opportunity with skilled players instead of 4th line dump and chase merchants.

 

[Pavelski2112]

Draft lotteries are just pointless and stupid, and the draft should just be in strict reverse standings order. Anything else is just randomization for the sake of manufactured drama.

That doesn't make it rigged, of course, just stupid.

Works for the most popular sports league in America, but everyone loves to treat tanking as some uniquely evil threat to the dignity of the worst-run league of the Big Four.

 

[Sendhelplease]

I once again don't think the league would be upset with having Celebrini on the Sharks. It would provide a nice story of having the top pick who played for the junior Sharks being the savior for the actual Sharks. The Bay Area is a desirable market when we the Sharks are good, there is no reason for the NHL not to want Celebrini in SJ.