GDT: Game 31: Columbus vs. Washington 12/18 7PM EST

[Nordique]

I wasn't advocating trading him for anything less than an elite player. It's Taylor frikkin' Hall. You're not going to get me to feel dumb for thinking we'd be better with him.

My response was harsh, but I'm not budging on that stance. I have no issue Johansen, besides his TOI which is excessive for a guy that missed pre season.

 

[major major]

Boll didn't even fight well. And his "assist"? He didn't even touch the puck. Perhaps we should be glad.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Really, everyone? Give me a list of players who've been as lazy as Johansen for as long as he's been. I can tell you right now it does not include Dubinsky, Foligno, Jenner, Calvert, etc.. My fingers are tired of typing because it's too easy to think of people less lazy than Johansen.

You sure? A few people came on here during our losing streak and said "I think Foligno is slowing down. Doesn't look as engaged. Looks slower" and let's not even get into it with Calvert. People thought Calvert was skating his way out of Columbus a few weeks ago due to his bad and lackadaisical play. Because let's be honest, the only thing Calvert has going for him is his speed and heart. Sure he will pitch in some offense, but those are his bread and butter, and he struggled for a while. None of those guys on your 'list' of players hustling played close to the amount Johansen has played over the season, the closest being Foligno, due to him playing on his line for a while.

Oh I don't know. People thought Hartnell was floating, Wennberg too. People said our 4th line is struggling, because they lack energy. Well, playing with energy is not floating, and if you aren't playing with energy, you're probably floating right? So you can put Boll, Tropp, Cracknell whoever in that mix too.

Johansen has acknowledged that he's struggling with his legs. The Dispatch guys claim it to be because of his heavy workload. Guarantee this guy comes back flying out of the gate after the Christmas break. Just watch, instead of trying to trade away a budding #1 center for a misfit in a team full of misfits.

(And btw. I like Taylor Hall and would like him here. You don't build around a Taylor Hall though. Look where it's gotten Edmonton.)

 

[Jackets Fan]

Agreed with everything CBJWennberg is saying about Johansen.

Have you guys already forgot about Joey single handedly carrying us through the first half dozen games of the season? He and Foligno were literally our only scoring threats for a huge chunk of the start.

After all he was forced to do because injuries, fatigue would obviously catch up to him. Hell, he's still been clutch lately. Have you already forgot about the shootout and OT winners created by Johansen? If not for those, would we have gone on that winning streak?

Give the guy a break. He's done all he can and more.

 

[major major]

You sure? A few people came on here during our losing streak and said "I think Foligno is slowing down. Doesn't look as engaged. Looks slower" and let's not even get into it with Calvert. People thought Calvert was skating his way out of Columbus a few weeks ago due to his bad and lackadaisical play. Because let's be honest, the only thing Calvert has going for him is his speed and heart. Sure he will pitch in some offense, but those are his bread and butter, and he struggled for a while. None of those guys on your 'list' of players hustling played close to the amount Johansen has played over the season, the closest being Foligno, due to him playing on his line for a while.

Oh I don't know. People thought Hartnell was floating, Wennberg too. People said our 4th line is struggling, because they lack energy. Well, playing with energy is not floating, and if you aren't playing with energy, you're probably floating right? So you can put Boll, Tropp, Cracknell whoever in that mix too.

Johansen has acknowledged that he's struggling with his legs. The Dispatch guys claim it to be because of his heavy workload. Guarantee this guy comes back flying out of the gate after the Christmas break. Just watch, instead of trying to trade away a budding #1 center for a misfit in a team full of misfits.

(And btw. I like Taylor Hall and would like him here. You don't build around a Taylor Hall though. Look where it's gotten Edmonton.)

I'm not the most critical guy when it comes to guys who might have a game or two off. Weeks on end of disinterested going-through-the-motions play, however, will set me off. Foligno and Calvert might sometimes fit into that first group, but only Joey fits into the second. Are you seriously comparing Foligno to Johansen in terms of laziness?

After tonight I'm leaning towards attributing Joey's troubles to his mental state. He's not as interested in what's going on around the ice as he used to be. Maybe someone can persuade me that it's mostly physical.. but what? Is it the minutes? If so Richards needs to figure that out or go. It would be obvious to him that Joey can't handle it.

And no you're not even right about the TOI. Foligno has been playing 20 a night regardless of which line he is on. He played more than Joey tonight.

Fair point about Hall. I myself question the wisdom of building around a star winger, which never seems to work for anyone. But for our team I don't think we're building around Joey anyways. He's a passenger, and we're building around Dubi, Jenner, Bob, hopefully Foligno. We have an excellent leadership core, and Joey is definitely not in it. In that context I'd take the heart and soul elite winger over the disinterested center.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Are you seriously comparing Foligno to Johansen in terms of laziness?

Sure, because neither player is lazy. They both went/going through a tough/downward stretch. It happens. To everyone.

After tonight I'm leaning towards attributing Joey's troubles to his mental state. He's not as interested in what's going on around the ice as he used to be. Maybe someone can persuade me that it's mostly physical.. but what? Is it the minutes? If so Richards needs to figure that out or go. It would be obvious to him that Joey can't handle it.

So his mental state is the reason for his 'lazy' play? For what? The contract thing? We're still going to go on about this? Are we going to nullify everything he's done for the entire two months of the season for a tough week and a half stretch? The dude has 28 points in 31 games for Gods sake. Maybe you'd have a point if he had like 15, but the dude is almost PPG. If he's floating, he's not doing a very good job of it.

And no you're not even right about the TOI. Foligno has been playing 20 a night regardless of which line he is on. He played more than Joey tonight.

Of course he did. He's the hot hand. Can we compare the numbers for the first few months of the season too?

Fair point about Hall. I myself question the wisdom of building around a star winger, which never seems to work for anyone. But for our team I don't think we're building around Joey anyways. He's a passenger, and we're building around Dubi, Jenner, Bob, hopefully Foligno. We have an excellent leadership core, and Joey is definitely not in it. In that context I'd take the heart and soul elite winger over the disinterested center.

Stanley cup winning teams don't win cups by building around individual players. Look at the Caps, they've been trying to build around Ovechkin for years and the only player worth substance he's had to play with is Nick Backstrom. You win cups by putting together a team of players with certain skills and talents who mesh well together. Toews is more of a disher, Kane is a sniper. Crosby is an all around type offensive player, Kunitz is too. Ovechkin is a shooter, Backstrom is a pure passer. Using the Jackets, Johansen is an all around offensive player, Jenner is a hammer that goes into dirty areas to create offense, and Foligno is also an all around type offensive player. It's about the mesh. I don't think Skille is the right mesh for Johansen, and frankly I don't think Jenner is anymore either.

I hope you didn't call Hall a heart and soul player. I don't think skating hard down the end boards and trying toe drags or fanzy obvious dekes instead of using teammates and setting up plays is heart and soul player. In fact, I consider that just as lazy and selfish as floating, which is what people are attributing to Johansen right now, for some reason.

 

[major major]

Sure, because neither player is lazy. They both went/going through a tough/downward stretch. It happens. To everyone.

I don't think they're in the same universe when it comes to work ethic. Watch Joey's play on the first goal tonight. He skated up to Ward, and then rather than taking Ward out of the play, he stopped and waved his stick at him, and Ward just did a quick give and go and walked right around Joey. Foligno's out of position quite a bit actually, but I've never seen him give up on a play the way Joey has been.

So his mental state is the reason for his 'lazy' play? For what? The contract thing? We're still going to go on about this? Are we going to nullify everything he's done for the entire two months of the season for a tough week and a half stretch? The dude has 28 points in 31 games for Gods sake. Maybe you'd have a point if he had like 15, but the dude is almost PPG. If he's floating, he's not doing a very good job of it.

If I was advocating trading him for a non-ppg kind of player this would be an interesting argument. I'm not nullifying anything. He's a productive player, who even when he's horrendously lazy, can still get points.

Of course he did. He's the hot hand. Can we compare the numbers for the first few months of the season too?

Go ahead. You'll find a few other guys near 20 minutes a night, including Foligno. Anyways, I'm not saying that TOI isn't a factor, I'm just making it clear that it is not correct that Joey has been placed with some unique burden that Foligno hasn't been placed with. I don't know if TOI is a factor with Joey. If it is, then that does let Joey off the hook to some extent. Then it's major mismanagement of talent. Joey was awful tonight, -3 and he earned his minuses.

 

[EspenK]

The Joey apologists remind me of the pro-Nash'ers circa 2008-2012 (or thereabouts, you get the point)

Anyone who can't see that Joey has Nash like tendencies is missing something.

 

[DJA]

I'm highly disappointed in Joey lately. And people are wondering why Jarmo didn't break the bank for him? It's these dumbfounding stretches.

 

[Dr. Fire]

The winning streak is done, but we still have an 8 game point streak.

Keep it going.

 

[pete goegan]

Joey on Joey:

From today's Dispatch:

Center Ryan Johansen has no goals, three assists and a minus-5 rating since the Blue Jackets began an eight-game point streak (7-0-1) at the start of December.

But a late-year lull is not unusual for him. Every player goes through a period during the season in which his legs feel heavy, and Johansen’s usually occurs in December, he said.

“I’d like to score more goals,†Johansen said. “But I’d rather win games than score goals. The guys have been great. They’ve picked up the slack and then some. I’ve struggled a bit, but I know it will come around.â€

Johansen has only 10 shots on goal during eight games in December but has come up big in key moments. He scored shootout winners against Florida on Dec. 4 and Pittsburgh on Saturday and also scored in the shootout at Detroit (on Tuesday). Both of Johansen’s December assists have been on winners in overtime.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Johansen's play has been sub-par for him. His energy level seems low, for whatever reason. It's frustrating and disappointing. He needs to be better for this team to continue to have success.

No, Jarmo should not be looking to trade him. He's a talented player, the kind that's needed on a team built the way this one is.

 

[EspenK]

From today's Dispatch:

Center Ryan Johansen has no goals, three assists and a minus-5 rating since the Blue Jackets began an eight-game point streak (7-0-1) at the start of December.

But a late-year lull is not unusual for him. Every player goes through a period during the season in which his legs feel heavy, and Johansen’s usually occurs in December, he said.

“I’d like to score more goals,” Johansen said. “But I’d rather win games than score goals. The guys have been great. They’ve picked up the slack and then some. I’ve struggled a bit, but I know it will come around.”

Johansen has only 10 shots on goal during eight games in December but has come up big in key moments. He scored shootout winners against Florida on Dec. 4 and Pittsburgh on Saturday and also scored in the shootout at Detroit (on Tuesday). Both of Johansen’s December assists have been on winners in overtime.

Yikes! How do you lull compared to this? Unless 31 games in is late in the season? With those extra minutes its like he's played 34 already.

Also if he played a bit better during the game those shootout goals might not have been necessary.

 

[CBJSlash]

I trust that there are guys in the room that are either on Johansen's case or are deflecting attention from him because they know he's hurting.

 

[Ar-too]

It says late-year, not late-season, fwiw.

 

[EspenK]

It says late-year, not late-season, fwiw.

Good point. So come Jan 1 we'll see productive Joey again?

 

[EDM]

So what was his excuse for actually, pulling up short, actually slowing down before lightly taping into a Cap who he should have had dead to rights for a huge check? All he had to do was keep skating at the speed he was at and he would have made a thunderous check. It was a ridiculous example of half-arsed, unmotivated play. It is one thing to not score. It is another to not put in the effort.

 

[Cowumbus]

Can't trade away Joey he's too good. You ever just think how easy he makes it look in the shoutout? He one of the best players we have had and I say we wait it out. When we get guys back and he has Foligno with him on a line he will pick it up just wait

 

[Socks]

So what was his excuse for actually, pulling up short, actually slowing down before lightly taping into a Cap who he should have had dead to rights for a huge check? All he had to do was keep skating at the speed he was at and he would have made a thunderous check. It was a ridiculous example of half-arsed, unmotivated play. It is one thing to not score. It is another to not put in the effort.

Dancing Sickness.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Dancing Sickness.

Dropsy. Rickets.

 

[CAMSANITY]

So what was his excuse for actually, pulling up short, actually slowing down before lightly taping into a Cap who he should have had dead to rights for a huge check? All he had to do was keep skating at the speed he was at and he would have made a thunderous check. It was a ridiculous example of half-arsed, unmotivated play. It is one thing to not score. It is another to not put in the effort.

Honestly maybe he does have some sory of injury. That could explain why he isn't hitting as hard as some of you think he needs to.

On a different note, I think Calvert wasn't at his best last night speed wise. Looked like he had some tired legs.

 

[EDM]

Rickets seems to be the best explanation.

Or perhaps the poorly motivated Joey of the year prior to his contact year is the real Joey. I really think we should give him the No. 61 jersey.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

We can figure out what's wrong with Joey by...

 

[ca5150]

I've questioned Joey recently, but I don't think he's dogging it as much as I thought there might be an injury. He sometimes skates like I do after a few months off and skating with a hangover, bent over, head down, look to pass first rather than skate it....And I was concerned he had a bad back or groin. But he also could be in that stretch where your legs feel like red woods from not getting the proper training camp. he had a little burst at the beginning of the game last night that i haven't seen in quite awhile.

He will be back after the Christmas break, legs wise, wait and see. All this trading him talk is ludicrous and I can't believe I spent time reading that non-sense...relax people, every team in the league would go nuts to have a stud 6'3 220 pound center with hands like butter.

 

[db2011]

After carrying this team and dominating the competition for a few weeks while having missed training camp, Joey is experiencing a slow down. While continuing to make clutch plays.

Wish him off this team at your own risk. And you're bonkers if you want that. FWIW, I want a stud center over a stud wing all day long.