GDT: Game 3 | Stars @ Red Wings | 50% off beer!

[GoAwayDanCleary]

Sorry, I'm just a bit annoyed with you and others complaining about Babcock in every one of your posts. I'm not really sure what coach out there would be doing any better with this team he is putting on the ice. Babcock is one of the best hockey minds out there, but that can only get you so far when you have limited talent. Injuries don't help, lack of true goal scorers doesn't help, lack of depth on D doesn't help. I'm not sure why that is Babcocks fault. But getting rid of him isn't the answer, there is no one better out there. Firing the coach seems to always be the first choice when a team struggles, it seems to be ignoring the true issues.

Detroits problem is that they have too many small skilled players in their system. You aren't going to ice a winning NHL team with a team full of 5-10 180 pound guys. You have Datsyuk, Zetterberg and Filppula who are all solid in the top 6 who are that style of player. Brunner, based on his play tonight is a legit top 6 player and is as good or better than Nyquist or Tatar. So you have two slots left. How do you fill those slots? More guys who play skilled hockey? No. Guys who can clear space and score the mucky goals that the skill guys don't. Franzen got his contract and forgot how to play hard and Detroit has no one in their system to fill those roles. So what do you do? Not sure there is much you can do but decide who to trade and get players who can fill your holes.

Cleary isn't like that though. Our second line last year was our best line and it had no net-front presence. And it's not just this decision, but putting CC over Smith on the PP and Smith on the PK, or the Quicey-Smith pairing, etc. Hopefully you get what I'm saying.

 

[ProPAIN]

It's far from over. I'm not ready for the streak to end. It'll happen eventually, but I want to delay the inevitable.

They need to get the lines sorted. No more Smith-Quincey. Keep Quincey off the ice as much as possible. Hopefully he sits when Ericsson is back. Lashoff has held his own.

And get the ****ing PP going, for the **** sake!

 

[DatsyukToZetterberg]

Stupid post, we didn't play well enough to get any breaks tonight, that and Kari played really well. We really need to start driving the night & getting some traffic in front of the goalie and a full rework of our PP.

 

[DRWCountryClub]

Sorry, I'm just a bit annoyed with you and others complaining about Babcock in every one of your posts. I'm not really sure what coach out there would be doing any better with this team he is putting on the ice. Babcock is one of the best hockey minds out there, but that can only get you so far when you have limited talent. Injuries don't help, lack of true goal scorers doesn't help, lack of depth on D doesn't help. I'm not sure why that is Babcocks fault. But getting rid of him isn't the answer, there is no one better out there. Firing the coach seems to always be the first choice when a team struggles, it seems to be ignoring the true issues.

Detroits problem is that they have too many small skilled players in their system. You aren't going to ice a winning NHL team with a team full of 5-10 180 pound guys. You have Datsyuk, Zetterberg and Filppula who are all solid in the top 6 who are that style of player. Brunner, based on his play tonight is a legit top 6 player and is as good or better than Nyquist or Tatar. So you have two slots left. How do you fill those slots? More guys who play skilled hockey? No. Guys who can clear space and score the mucky goals that the skill guys don't. Franzen got his contract and forgot how to play hard and Detroit has no one in their system to fill those roles. So what do you do? Not sure there is much you can do but decide who to trade and get players who can fill your holes.

I fail to see how Cleary fits into this role?

And not to mention Detroit has always been a small skilled team. That has to change now? Why? Guys like Cleary, Bert, Sammy aren't getting it done(and Cleary isn't even that big), so yeah, id rather see Nyquist in the top six, I'd rather see sill with skill. The Wings got picked apart by guys who are 6'0 and like 5'9(Ryder and Whitney). Sure it helps having Jagr, but size is highly overrated in this league. I would have though you'd see that if you've watched the Wings teams over the last two decades.

I honestly can't even believe you suggest putting guys in the top six because they are big, over skilled guys who are projected to be good scorers. I mean hey, against a physical team I can see your point, but Dallas isn't.

Brings me to another point that this teams coach needs to start making adjustments when things aren't working, instead of waiting until the last period every game. Make adjustments team to team. Stop getting out coached.
Sorry, I don't think Babock is the god-like coach some people seem to think he is. He has flaws just like everyone else, and like Is aid earlier, everyone knows that even the best coaches' time runs out.

 

[DRWCountryClub]

Cleary isn't like that though. Our second line last year was our best line and it had no net-front presence. And it's not just this decision, but putting CC over Smith on the PP and Smith on the PK, or the Quicey-Smith pairing, etc. Hopefully you get what I'm saying.

Thank. You.

 

[DatsyukToZetterberg]

It's far from over. I'm not ready for the streak to end. It'll happen eventually, but I want to delay the inevitable.

They need to get the lines sorted. No more Smith-Quincey. Keep Quincey off the ice as much as possible. Hopefully he sits when Ericsson is back. Lashoff has held his own.

And get the ****ing PP going, for the **** sake!

Yep, I'm with you. Let's wait until the trade deadline before we hope on the tank train. Though with White possibly being out Quincey may be back into a top 4 role.

 

[Run the Jewels]

Yep, I'm with you. Let's wait until the trade deadline before we hope on the tank train. Though with White possibly being out Quincey may be back into a top 4 role.

Are we somehow magically going to become a Cup contender? When has Holland made a blockbuster trade since the salary cap has been implemented? Not trying to be a jerk, just looking at things with a very realistic view on the NHL and how the DRW are run.

 

[DatsyukToZetterberg]

Wow, anyone just see the Sharks PP goal(s)? Really hope Babs & company are taking notes, that is how you run a PP.

 

[dtones520]

Cleary isn't like that though. Our second line last year was our best line and it had no net-front presence. And it's not just this decision, but putting CC over Smith on the PP and Smith on the PK, or the Quicey-Smith pairing, etc. Hopefully you get what I'm saying.

I get what your saying, but Babs has always liked making young guys earn their spots, that was what he did when we went to back to back finals. So it's probably going to be the same for Smith. Though, now with the injuries, he will get his chance regardless.

I'm not saying Cleary on the second line is the answer or the right move, I'm just explaining what i think is Babcocks thought process. Nyquist is not a goal scorer, Datsyuk is not a pure goal scorer, Filppula is not a pure goal scorer. They are all skill guys. At least Hudler, last year, was more of a shoot first type guy. Again, Cleary isn't a sniper or a shoot first guy, but he is a net front guy and opens space for your skill guys. Nyquist is better served on a line where he has a guy who can open up a little space for him or has a guy who is a shooter like Brunner.

 

[PullHard]

Wow, anyone just see the Sharks PP goal(s)? Really hope Babs & company are taking notes, that is how you run a PP.

Even Marleau's ES goal made me go "wtf why can't we do that?" EDM does look awful, though.

 

[DRWCountryClub]

At least St Louis is getting beat. But by Chicago.

 

[PullHard]

At least St Louis is getting beat. But by Chicago.

Chicago is going to have their way with us and all of their obnoxious fans are going to come over and be like "lol ur suck idiot" and we will be like, we know, wanna help us write a letter to the Illitch family to make some changes happen?

 

[DRWCountryClub]

I get what your saying, but Babs has always liked making young guys earn their spots, that was what he did when we went to back to back finals. So it's probably going to be the same for Smith. Though, now with the injuries, he will get his chance regardless.

I'm not saying Cleary on the second line is the answer or the right move, I'm just explaining what i think is Babcocks thought process. Nyquist is not a goal scorer, Datsyuk is not a pure goal scorer, Filppula is not a pure goal scorer. They are all skill guys. At least Hudler, last year, was more of a shoot first type guy. Again, Cleary isn't a sniper or a shoot first guy, but he is a net front guy and opens space for your skill guys. Nyquist is better served on a line where he has a guy who can open up a little space for him or has a guy who is a shooter like Brunner.

Even though Nyquist and Datsyuk aren't pure goalscorers, neither is Cleary, and both guys have more skill than Cleary, AND Datsyuk has never been outscored by Cleary, AND this defense can at least score benefiting from good playmakers.

I beg to differ that Cleary opens up space. That is just plain wrong. In 2008, yes, he was fantastic. Lately, he's terrible. He can't keep up, he gives the puck away too often, and he can barely stay on his skates. How is he opening up space more than a skilled guy who can hold on to the puck, making two guys commit to him?

 

[DRWCountryClub]

Chicago is going to have their way with us and all of their obnoxious fans are going to come over and be like "lol ur suck idiot" and we will be like, we know, wanna help us write a letter to the Illitch family to make some changes happen?

Hahaha, thanks I needed a good laugh.

I like Chicago more than STL though, barely.

 

[flip51]

Can Jiri Fischer be cleared to play?

 

[DatsyukToZetterberg]

Are we somehow magically going to become a Cup contender? When has Holland made a blockbuster trade since the salary cap has been implemented? Not trying to be a jerk, just looking at things with a very realistic view on the NHL and how the DRW are run.

Oh I know that we aren't the contender we once were; I'm fully aware that we have some rough times ahead but I'd rather ignore them for now and just keep the hope going for a little while longer. I mean what's so fun about rooting to finish last, so we can be like the Oiler or Leaf fans? I'm not ready for that yet & I'm slightly crazy enough for blind cheering, even if we're headed nowhere!

But I also think we do have some positives to take from these games & with some tweaking we can get back to being the playoff team we all know and love. Whether those adjustments, trades or people playing to their potential, happen before the season is lost I'm not sure. But it's most certainly to early to throw the Front office, the team & the coaching staff under the bus, I'll wait a little bit longer before I do that.

 

[dtones520]

I fail to see how Cleary fits into this role?

And not to mention Detroit has always been a small skilled team. That has to change now? Why? Guys like Cleary, Bert, Sammy aren't getting it done(and Cleary isn't even that big), so yeah, id rather see Nyquist in the top six, I'd rather see sill with skill. The Wings got picked apart by guys who are 6'0 and like 5'9(Ryder and Whitney). Sure it helps having Jagr, but size is highly overrated in this league. I would have though you'd see that if you've watched the Wings teams over the last two decades.

I honestly can't even believe you suggest putting guys in the top six because they are big, over skilled guys who are projected to be good scorers. I mean hey, against a physical team I can see your point, but Dallas isn't.

Brings me to another point that this teams coach needs to start making adjustments when things aren't working, instead of waiting until the last period every game. Make adjustments team to team. Stop getting out coached.
Sorry, I don't think Babock is the god-like coach some people seem to think he is. He has flaws just like everyone else, and like Is aid earlier, everyone knows that even the best coaches' time runs out.

Detroit has always had a power forward playing at an elite level when they have been true cup contenders. Shanahan in 97, 98 and 02, Brett Hull in 2002 and Franzen in 08 (and 09s loss). Ironically, in those years Holmstrom was also playing on the top 2 lines, so I'm not really sure how I am wrong in my assessment of our top 6 and Babcocks decision making. In 2008 we had Samuelsson playing the wing on the second line along side Franzen and Filppula. Which means we had 3 skill guys and 3 power/shooters. Notice that our team has gotten worse as our lack of talented power forwards/finishers, to go with our skill guys, has come to the forefront.

 

[FlashyG]

I think it's basically him being dissatisfied with Holland. I don't think those two agree anymore on the direction the team needs to go, but neither one wants to be the one to leave over it.

Holland has always valued skill above all else, Babcock seems to prefer a grinding style, this is why I believe Cleary is getting more icetime than Filppula, why Abdelkader and Miller played the majority of the game as the second line and why skilled players like Nyquist end up playing less than 10 minutes a night on a line with Emmerton and Eaves. Personally I think Hollands philosophy would be more effective than Babcocks.

Some other observations:

Eaves should be playing in Grand Rapids on a conditioning stint, he seems hesitant to go into areas where he might get hit.

Tootoo once again has a great first period and gets rewarded by getting less than 10 minutes ice-time.

I was relieved when Babcock finally switched the lines up in the 3rd period, even if I would have preferred Cleary in the bottom 6 and Nyquist remaining, but why did he leave the PP with the same personnel?

This 4 forward set-up with Brunner on the point is a disaster waiting to happen, and it leads to predictable perimeter hockey. For once I'd like to see them put pressure down low so the oppositions PK has to collapse like the Wings do. Then start throwing it back to the point for the shots through traffic.

 

[DRWCountryClub]

Oh I know that we aren't the contender we once were; I'm fully aware that we have some rough times ahead but I'd rather ignore them for now and just keep the hope going for a little while longer. I mean what's so fun about rooting to finish last, so we can be like the Oiler or Leaf fans? I'm not ready for that yet & I'm slightly crazy enough for blind cheering, even if we're headed nowhere!

But I also think we do have some positives to take from these games & with some tweaking we can get back to being the playoff team we all know and love. Whether those adjustments, trades or people playing to their potential, happen before the season is lost I'm not sure. But it's most certainly to early to throw the Front office, the team & the coaching staff under the bus, I'll wait a little bit longer before I do that.

Are there fans out there that didn't see this coming though? People seriously thought Holland was going to sign Lijla, and for good reason. This has been a downward trend for a few seasons now.

 

[dtones520]

Even though Nyquist and Datsyuk aren't pure goalscorers, neither is Cleary, and both guys have more skill than Cleary, AND Datsyuk has never been outscored by Cleary, AND this defense can at least score benefiting from good playmakers.

I beg to differ that Cleary opens up space. That is just plain wrong. In 2008, yes, he was fantastic. Lately, he's terrible. He can't keep up, he gives the puck away too often, and he can barely stay on his skates. How is he opening up space more than a skilled guy who can hold on to the puck, making two guys commit to him?

Again, I'm not saying Cleary is the right choice. But I'm not going to say Nyquist is either. He was playing awful up until Babs changed the lineup. He had a chance on the second line and did not look good.

 

[Datstromberg]

there is absolutely no reason the power play should be that awful. what is going on with the people running this team?

 

[DRWCountryClub]

Again, I'm not saying Cleary is the right choice. But I'm not going to say Nyquist is either. He was playing awful up until Babs changed the lineup. He had a chance on the second line and did not look good.

I disagree. I'm not sure we could have noticed Nyquist being particularly good or bad in 10 minutes of ice time.

He's a rookie though, he can have bad stretches. Cleary is a vet who simply looks awful out there.

We can agree to disagree, but I'd go with Nyquist.

 

[FlashyG]

Again, I'm not saying Cleary is the right choice. But I'm not going to say Nyquist is either. He was playing awful up until Babs changed the lineup. He had a chance on the second line and did not look good.

Nyquist didn't get a chance at all in the top 6.

I guess you could argue that on paper the second line was Nyquist, Flip and Franzen but they got less ice-time than Cleary, Miller and Abdelkader through the 2 periods the lines were together.

For all the crap that gets flung at Holland around here for not giving the kids a chance to play, the same needs to be said about Babcock since when he has them in the line-up they end up playing garbage minutes with the worst players on the roster.

 

[pavel13]

Two nights in a row now Howie has been the cat in this litter box of defenseman

So, Howard has been pooping on Kyle Quincey? That analogy makes zero sense.

 

[detredWINgs]

Cleary shouldn't even be a topic of conversation. He's done. He's about as relevant to the offense as Drew Miller is at this point, and that is not an exaggeration. This is not the Dan Cleary of 2-3 years ago. He's a 30 point player who is no longer buoyed by strong skating and energy.