Pre-Game Talk: Game #23: Vancouver Canucks vs. Florida Panthers - Tuesday, Nov. 17th 7:00PM - SNET-P

[Vankiller Whale]

While Luongo hasn't been playing as well as he should be, it's not like we've been losing games 3-2. Sure it would be nice if Luongo pitched another shutout at some point but it's unreasonable to expect him to lead the league in shutouts and then some.

Despite Luongo not playing fantastic, he's not the reason we're losing, compared to what we should reasonably expect from him. If we were losing games 3-2 then things would be different.

 

[Tanevian*]

Yes, goaltending is the problem. We've scored 1 goal in each of the last 4 games and we're undefeated in regulation when we score 2 or more goals.

I can see how it's Luongo's fault.

Goaltending has been a problem in that the other team keeps getting better goaltending.

Although I do not think anyone has stated goaltending is THE problem. It's average and that makes it better than the offence currently.

 

[BoHorvatFan]

Goaltending has been a problem in that the other team keeps getting better goaltending.

Although I do not think anyone has stated goaltending is THE problem. It's average and that makes it better than the offence currently.

We're making the other goalies look good with shots from the outside, shots to the chest, spin a rama backhand passes to the other team when in a prime scoring position.

Our lack of scoring talent is to blame for that.

 

[nekyvGkOPaiWICTscLl6]

While Luongo hasn't been playing as well as he should be, it's not like we've been losing games 3-2. Sure it would be nice if Luongo pitched another shutout at some point but it's unreasonable to expect him to lead the league in shutouts and then some.

Despite Luongo not playing fantastic, he's not the reason we're losing, compared to what we should reasonably expect from him. If we were losing games 3-2 then things would be different.

Agreed, but let's be honest here.

Schneider, in many of the games he played for us last year, WAS the reason we were winning.

 

[Wetcoaster]

Unfortunately every single dime Luongo is paid in salary is going to be counted against the Canucks' cap at some point, so it does matter. Add in the fact that he can't even be given away because of that contract and there is naturally going to be uneasiness that his cap hit will never overcome.

His contract is awful, there's no getting around it.

And for that state of affairs we can say...

Thanks Burkie.

 

[Lundface*]

While Luongo hasn't been playing as well as he should be, it's not like we've been losing games 3-2. Sure it would be nice if Luongo pitched another shutout at some point but it's unreasonable to expect him to lead the league in shutouts and then some.

Despite Luongo not playing fantastic, he's not the reason we're losing, compared to what we should reasonably expect from him. If we were losing games 3-2 then things would be different.

It's been repeated several times that scoring is the main issue.

People can throw that 2 goal stat out all you want, but you have to take it in context. For example... if the Stars lost 2-1 the other night, Lehtonen wouldn't see any blame and for good reason, his team got dominated and he kept them in it. It's a little bit different when your teams is dominating the other team, and your goalie isn't able to match the opponent. He isn't getting blamed for the losses, that's not whats happened here. But he could be doing a lot more to help this team win. He isn't being asked to do a lot of work either, his team is doing a good job of limiting chances.

It's also not irrational hate. I gave him praise when they beat San Jose 4-2 for making some big stops late on quality scoring chances. He just hasn't been able to make the big save when the team has needed it lately.

 

[Rotting Corpse*]

I don't care what his "cap hit" is. He is the third-highest paid goalie in the league, and is making 98% what the highest-paid goalie is. If you don't think that's "top dollar" I really don't even know what to say.

 

[Orca Smash]

We're also 7 points behind first overall. It's just a tight pack at the top, and I expect a few teams to fade. Colorado, Phoenix and possibly LA. If Vancouver can convert these high shot totals into goals, they will go on a hot streak.

Goaltending is not costing us games, it's lack of execution on offense and the occasional defensive lapse. The 'Schneider was elite and would have won these games' arguments need to stop, he's on another team with 0 offensive support and has 1 win all season. Tanev, Edler have both had tough seasons defensively so far, and Garrison is getting zilch on the offensive side of the puck.

While I dont disagree with your post, he has far worse goal support, in fact the worst in the nhl. Average goals for: 1.11 goals per game for cory schneider.

Im actually not panicking like some i think were typically playing very good and outplaying teams, were just not burying our chances.

Last year we had trouble scoring but were also getting badly outplayed often and i think the team was much worse off last year (with the luxury of being in a bad division). If we can start scoring a few goals and burying our chances I think the fanbase will quickly move off the blow it up bandwagon. Guess we will find out here. Still I understand the need for another top 6 guy, many of our players have had trouble burying our chances consistently for awhile now, I am hoping torts pushing less permiter play and more rushing into the slot will improve our scoring. With that said other then scoring im quite happy with how we have played in other area's.

 

[y2kcanucks]

It's been repeated several times that scoring is the main issue.

People can throw that 2 goal stat out all you want, but you have to take it in context. For example... if the Stars lost 2-1 the other night, Lehtonen wouldn't see any blame and for good reason, his team got dominated and he kept them in it. It's a little bit different when your teams is dominating the other team, and your goalie isn't able to match the opponent. He isn't getting blamed for the losses, that's not whats happened here. But he could be doing a lot more to help this team win. He isn't being asked to do a lot of work either, his team is doing a good job of limiting chances.

It's also not irrational hate. I gave him praise when they beat San Jose 4-2 for making some big stops late on quality scoring chances. He just hasn't been able to make the big save when the team has needed it lately.

Actually he has, and it's been pointed out several times when he's come up with a big save or two to preserve a tie and get it to OT. It's just, when our offense can't score you can't expect a goalie to just steal it. It's nice to have, and I'm sure it will come, but this discussion should be centered around our poor offense. It baffles my mind that people want to discuss goaltending more than how poor our offense has performed.

 

[Rotting Corpse*]

It's been repeated several times that scoring is the main issue.

People can throw that 2 goal stat out all you want, but you have to take it in context. For example... if the Stars lost 2-1 the other night, Lehtonen wouldn't see any blame and for good reason, his team got dominated and he kept them in it. It's a little bit different when your teams is dominating the other team, and your goalie isn't able to match the opponent. He isn't getting blamed for the losses, that's not whats happened here. But he could be doing a lot more to help this team win. He isn't being asked to do a lot of work either, his team is doing a good job of limiting chances.

It's also not irrational hate. I gave him praise when they beat San Jose 4-2 for making some big stops late on quality scoring chances. He just hasn't been able to make the big save when the team has needed it lately.

I agree. I don't think we haven't really asked too much of Luongo this year. He hasn't had a game [I don't THINK] where he faced an absolute barrage or hung out to dry regularly. The defense has been good at limiting the shots and chances, and he's really only had to be ordinary for the most part. Occasionally, the defense will make mistakes and yes, it is his job to bail them out when that happens.

Lately it seems like this is not the case. When we make a mistake, it's a goal. And this is magnified to a huge degree when we're in an offensive slump. Did anyone doubt that the Stars would score on that 2-on-1 last night? I barely even needed to watch. So not only are they having trouble scoring, but they also can't make any mistakes because any mistake will be a goal against. This compounds the problem.

 

[Lundface*]

Actually he has, and it's been pointed out several times when he's come up with a big save or two to preserve a tie and get it to OT. It's just, when our offense can't score you can't expect a goalie to just steal it. It's nice to have, and I'm sure it will come, but this discussion should be centered around our poor offense. It baffles my mind that people want to discuss goaltending more than how poor our offense has performed.

Except everyone and their dog has mentioned the offensive struggles. Unless you have a solution there isn't much to add, they are getting chances and if they keep doing so they will get out of this funk. It would also be nice to get to more rebounds, but outside of that what can be done short of getting new players?

Team defence has been stellar, the only other thing the team can improve is goaltending. If you have something intelligent to offer about offence I encourage you to bring it up. (bonus points if you leave out the word Sedin, Henrik/Daniel or Twins)

 

[Drop the Sopel]

It baffles my mind that people want to discuss goaltending more than how poor our offense has performed.

It shouldn't. The team has been around league average at scoring goals and their goaltending hasn't even performed that well. the team needs to score more goals and Luongo needs to outplay the guy at the other end more often than not, something he just hasn't been able to do this season.

I can't even say I'm confident Luongo will hold down the starters job throughout the duration of Lack's recent extension.

 

[Rotting Corpse*]

Except everyone and their dog has mentioned the offensive struggles. Unless you have a solution there isn't much to add, they are getting chances and if they keep doing so they will get out of this funk. It would also be nice to get to more rebounds, but outside of that what can be done short of getting new players?

Team defence has been stellar, the only other thing the team can improve is goaltending. If you have something intelligent to offer about offence I encourage you to bring it up. (bonus points if you leave out the word Sedin, Henrik/Daniel or Twins)

We've been talking about the offense all year. I was talking about the offense back when we were still winning (and Brad Richardson was scoring on 30% of his shots.) Of course then I was told to shut up because offense isn't the problem and we're winning.

Talking about the goaltending is a fresh discussion really.

 

[Orca Smash]

I understand both arguments regarding roberto and can see both sides point of view.

I however cant criticize him, in years past the main thing that bothered me about him was his ability to be consistent, he would steal games one night and have a meltdown the next night. I had no idea which goalie was going to show up. Right now hes playing consistently each night keeping it around 2 goals, and thats all I asked for.

I guess for some who feel he is paid like a premier goalie they want to see more from him, and others feel he is doing everything you could ask for keeping the games fairly low scoring and giving the team a chance to win.

 

[arsmaster*]

What is the metric that Luongo isn't playing good enough?

He's allowed 2 or less in like 9 of the last 10.

People care too much about save % like all the shots are coming from the same spot and can be treated equal.

Stats discussions are so annoying. It's like they mean more than actual goals and wins.

 

[arsmaster*]

Unfortunately every single dime Luongo is paid in salary is going to be counted against the Canucks' cap at some point, so it does matter. Add in the fact that he can't even be given away because of that contract and there is naturally going to be uneasiness that his cap hit will never overcome.

His contract is awful, there's no getting around it.

Unfortunately that point is getting in the way of actually analyzing the goalies play.

How many points we got when scoring 1 goal last year doesn't matter.

We've been afforded the chance to win all but 1 game this season because of he goaltending.

 

[Grumbler]

I however cant criticize him, in years past the main thing that bothered me about him was his ability to be consistent, he would steal games one night and have a meltdown the next night. I had no idea which goalie was going to show up. Right now hes playing consistently each night keeping it around 2 goals, and thats all I asked for.

He really hasn't faced many chances/quality chances from opposition teams because we have been so dominant against the other teams in the forecheck. In two games where we were outplayed that I can remember, first game vs SJ and our recent game against LA, he lets in 4 goals and was pulled in the LA game. So he does still have meltdowns.

He lost his ability to steal games but still kept his ability to meltdown.

 

[Rotting Corpse*]

According to the boxscores, Sestito and Welsh didn't play a shift after being on the ice for the GA last game. Is that true? I thought some posters in the GDT mentioned them being out for other shifts but I don't recall seeing them personally.

 

[Ryp37]

I don't care what his "cap hit" is. He is the third-highest paid goalie in the league, and is making 98% what the highest-paid goalie is. If you don't think that's "top dollar" I really don't even know what to say.

Why wouldn't you care what the cap hit is? It's what effects the make up of the team you maroon

 

[arsmaster*]

I don't even understand how there is a narrative out there that Luongo is struggling or even middling. I honestly don't comprehend it.

If his save percentage was .990 and we were only scoring one goal we'd still be losing.

 

[Rotting Corpse*]

Why wouldn't you care what the cap hit is? It's what effects the make up of the team you maroon

If a guy is making X dollars, I am going to expect him to play like a player who makes X dollars. I really don't care what special tricks the accountants and loophole-savants have done to make it so his salary is accounted for differently in some other respect; it's irrelevant in this context.

 

[Orca Smash]

He really hasn't faced many chances/quality chances from opposition teams because we have been so dominant against the other teams in the forecheck. In two games where we were outplayed that I can remember, first game vs SJ and our recent game against LA, he lets in 4 goals and was pulled in the LA game. So he does still have meltdowns.

He lost his ability to steal games but still kept his ability to meltdown.

I dont know if i consider those meltdowns because the team did not play well those nights. In years past we had nights where the team did score and did play well, but roberto was having an off night and I thought lost the game. I cant say i have felt that way this year.

Your right we have been dominant, but the odd gaffes we do create have given our opponents fantastic opportunities. I am not saying i dont wish he could come up with a big save, I just dont know if he can be expected to save some of those scoring opportunities. I guess its all in how you view it. Some will say yes he should be able to shut the door and make that special save, and others will say its unrealistic to expect him to have that.

For those that do expect more from him, I understand that point of view and cant really disagree, its just me personally what i wanted to see from him was more consistency, giving up no more then 2 goals a game, and generally he has been decent/good doing that.

 

[Rotting Corpse*]

I don't even understand how there is a narrative out there that Luongo is struggling or even middling. I honestly don't comprehend it.

If his save percentage was .990 and we were only scoring one goal we'd still be losing.

If his save% was .99 we'd be almost undefeated.

And I wasn't going to engage you earlier, but goals and wins are just stats.

 

[Upoil]

I don't even understand how there is a narrative out there that Luongo is struggling or even middling. I honestly don't comprehend it.

If his save percentage was .990 and we were only scoring one goal we'd still be losing.

He would only be allowing one goal every 100 shots... If we were scoring 1 goal and still losing games we would be giving up approx 200 shots a game....

 

[Drop the Sopel]

What is the metric that Luongo isn't playing good enough?

He's allowed 2 or less in like 9 of the last 10.

You're underestimating how far goaltending has come in the last few years and how low scoring the league has become. Luongo has been fine, but fine doesn't win you games in the ultra competetive Western conference. If the Canucks are going to make the playoffs, they absolutely have to find a way to get points out of low scoring, tight checking games.

Lou has looked average thus far. If that's all you're looking for from him, you should be happy with his play. I think he has more to give - he's playing behind a very strong defensive team like he did in '06-07 and by the end of the season his numbers should reflect that, and I believe they will.