Pre-Game Talk: Game #23: Vancouver Canucks vs. Florida Panthers - Tuesday, Nov. 17th 7:00PM - SNET-P

[SnapIt]

Canucks have scoring problems, BLAME GOALIE.

#HFBoardsLogic

Luongo's been the PP's problem! He just stands there for the most part!

Nice to see that Kesler remains a winger on the second line. His move to that position has been the best use of his skill.

Apparently the Panthers have the most goals allowed (more than Edmonton?). Great timing! Hopefully Garrison nets one vs. his old team (would've said Booth, but,... come on.)

 

[y2kcanucks]

Canucks have scoring problems, BLAME GOALIE.

#HFBoardsLogic

But but but, if Luongo didn't let in any goals then we would win most games. Sad when I can't say "every game." Though, the statement in itself is quite ridiculous due to the fact that some people legitimately expect this.

 

[Saturated Fats]

I consider myself a level headed, rational human being.

I hope Tim Thomas gets lit up like the fourth of drug in July (which, coincidentally, he likely chooses not to celebrate).

 

[Taelin]

But but but, if Luongo didn't let in any goals then we would win most games. Sad when I can't say "every game." Though, the statement in itself is quite ridiculous due to the fact that some people legitimately expect this.

Well we've only been shutout..twice I think? We could be 20-2-0!

 

[opendoor]

Judging him by his salary is also annoying. It's all about cap hit. Salary should not matter. People can talk about the resources, but the bottom line is he eats up a 5.3 chunk of the cap. I believe that's 11th in the league. I wouldn't take 11 goalies ahead of what he's doing right now although some might take Steve Mason and his sterling sv%.

Unfortunately every single dime Luongo is paid in salary is going to be counted against the Canucks' cap at some point, so it does matter. Add in the fact that he can't even be given away because of that contract and there is naturally going to be uneasiness that his cap hit will never overcome.

His contract is awful, there's no getting around it.

 

[Rotting Corpse*]

Canucks have scoring problems, BLAME GOALIE.

#HFBoardsLogic

Weird, I don't remember you and the pauser being the same person.

Sigh.

Guys, this is really simple.

When you criticize a players play, you are only talking about how a player has played, and whether his performance is up to expectations. It does not mean he is the only player whose play merits criticism. It does not mean you are "blaming" him. It does not mean he is "the problem." Most teams do not have "a problem." They have a number of strengths and weaknesses spread along a spectrum. Two of our weaknesses at the moment are our inability to score and our goaltender's inability to single-handedly win games the way he has in the past.

In 2011-2012 we had similar stretches of inept offense. We had a run from March 19-March 28 where we scored 8 goals in 6 games. But you know what? In those six games we picked up 9 points! Have you forgotten this game? And this one? Expecting to win 1-0 every game is absurd, but we pay Roberto Luongo top dollar because he's supposed to do this from time to time. Otherwise what is the point? Is Luongo being paid 7 million dollars to win games where we score 5 goals? Seriously, what are you thinking?

I really can't be any clearer than this. I don't know what is so hard to understand about this.

 

[Rotting Corpse*]

Hah.

Been here almost 5 years. I don't see it, but then again I've got a very deep ignore list.

Until he retires Luongo will get ragged on. If that's your issue you best get used to it.

Back in 2003-2005 or so this place was a small community where a thread with 100 posts was a monster thread. Since its explosion the quality has gone down a lot, but as a simple reader I don't see much difference between today and 2009 or so.

 

[thepuckmonster]

Well we've only been shutout..twice I think? We could be 20-2-0!

We haven't been shutout this season yet.

 

[Nuckles]

Weird, I don't remember you and the pauser being the same person.

Sigh.

Yes, goaltending is the problem. We've scored 1 goal in each of the last 4 games and we're undefeated in regulation when we score 2 or more goals.

I can see how it's Luongo's fault.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Weird, I don't remember you and the pauser being the same person.

Sigh.

Guys, this is really simple.

When you criticize a players play, you are only talking about how a player has played, and whether his performance is up to expectations. It does not mean he is the only player whose play merits criticism. It does not mean you are "blaming" him. It does not mean he is "the problem." Most teams do not have "a problem." They have a number of strengths and weaknesses spread along a spectrum. Two of our weaknesses at the moment are our inability to score and our goaltender's inability to single-handedly win games the way he has in the past.

In 2011-2012 we had similar stretches of inept offense. We had a run from March 19-March 28 where we scored 8 goals in 6 games. But you know what? In those six games we picked up 9 points! Have you forgotten this game? And this one? Expecting to win 1-0 every game is absurd, but we pay Roberto Luongo top dollar because he's supposed to do this from time to time[/url].

I really can't be any clearer than this. I'm flabbergasted that this is still being seen as "ZOMG THEIR BLAMING LUONGO FOR NOT SCORING LOLLIPOPS." I don't know how much clearer I can be. It's infuriating.

Do you not see how incredibly laughable that statement is? "The Canucks have a problem with goaltending because their goaltender can't single-handedly win games." Wow.

 

[StIllmatic]

I don't think anybody is blaming Luongo for the losses. He just hasn't ever really outplayed another goalie much when we needed him too. He can be better. Regardless we need to score more than one goal a game.

 

[y2kcanucks]

I don't think anybody is blaming Luongo for the losses. He just hasn't ever really outplayed another goalie much when we needed him too. He can be better. Regardless we need to score more than one goal a game.

If the other team took another 20 permiter shots and Luongo's save percentage were .940, would people's opinions change?

 

[StIllmatic]

Do you not see how incredibly laughable that statement is? "The Canucks have a problem with goaltending because their goaltender can't single-handedly win games." Wow.

It's not a weakness. Goaltending just isn't a strength right now. I expect Luongo to come around anyways, just like I expect the same from our forwards.

 

[StIllmatic]

If the other team took another 20 permiter shots and Luongo's save percentage were .940, would people's opinions change?

Others maybe, not mine.

 

[ohnoeszz]

Okay, lets see if this works... (I doubt it given the thread so far)...

The lack of scoring

And

The middling performance of Luongo

Are two (2) SEPARATE issues.

What this means is that the Canucks haven't been scoring AND Luongo has not looked particularly good. These are not mutually exclusive. Both issues can in fact exist at the same time.

Talking about one, has NO relevance to the other. Identifying the lacking play of Luongo relative to his past performance, his cap hit and our expectations of him is not equivalent to blaming him for the overall performance or record of the team.

I don't think I've seen one person here say our lack of scoring isn't the #1 issue with the team, but comments about Luongo are being misconstrued as dismissals of that primary team issue.

Luongo has not looked like a great goalie - as you would expect from his cap hit. He has ranged from very good to very average, even perhaps below average at times. He hasn't thrown games away but he hasn't stoned any teams either (again, what you want to see from a great, highly paid goaltender). This isn't about SV% either (though leaguewide, SV% has been increasing and Luongo's has been very average for the last 100 games or so). His lateral movement on the SJS OT goal was very concerning to see for a goalie we are locked into for many more years.

He fully deserves the entire season to pull things together. This has been a small sample size but it is still noteworthy that he has not been impressive through 20 games.

 

[y2kcanucks]

It's not a weakness. Goaltending just isn't a strength right now. I expect Luongo to come around anyways, just like I expect the same from our forwards.

The Canucks offense is nowhere to be found. The Sedins have been in a huge slump since they signed their contract extensions. Burrows has been snake bitten all season. Kesler has been very streaky. Booth has generated absolutely nothing. Kassian isn't producing at a top 6 clip. Offense from the back-end has been sporadic at best. Yet the majority of the discussion is centered around Luongo. To me, that's absolutely ridiculous.

 

[Grumbler]

If the other team took another 20 permiter shots and Luongo's save percentage were .940, would people's opinions change?

Atleast one of those shots would go in, I guarantee it no matter how weird it is and then ppl like you will always say "Wow are we seriously blaming Luongo for that goal ..."

 

[Rotting Corpse*]

Yes, goaltending is the problem. We've scored 1 goal in each of the last 4 games and we're undefeated in regulation when we score 2 or more goals.

I can see how it's Luongo's fault.

This is an oversimplification. There is no "the problem." It's an oversimplistic way of looking at things. He has not played like a seven million dollar goaltender; it's really as simple as that. Is he the worst player on the team? No. Is he "the problem?" That is a meaningless sentence. Are there other players who have performed below expectation? Of course, Booth, Burrows, Edler to name a few. But that doesn't let Luongo off the hook just because he hasn't been allowing 6 goals per game. He has also not performed up to his salary, and I'm sick and tired of people acting like that somehow doesn't matter just because the offense is a more pressing need at the moment.

It's like if you have a messy closet and a kitchen sink that isn't working. Yes, the kitchen sink is probably more important, but that doesn't somehow mean that the closet isn't messy, nor does pointing out the messiness of the closet mean that we are "BLAMING TEH CLOSET" on our problems. It's a ludicrous thing to say. Nobody would say, "OH yES CLEARLY THE CLOSET IS THE PROBLEM WITH OUR HOUSE :SARCASMEMOTICON." It is A problem. There can be more than one.

 

[y2kcanucks]

I'm way more concerned with our first line left winger who's entering his mid-30's and we just re-upped for 4 more years at top dollar scoring at a 63 point pace and producing no points in the past two weeks, than I am with a goaltender who hasn't lost in regulation whenever the team has provided him with more than 1 goal of offensive support all season.

 

[Rotting Corpse*]

Okay, lets see if this works... (I doubt it given the thread so far)...

The lack of scoring

And

The middling performance of Luongo

Are two (2) SEPARATE issues.

What this means is that the Canucks haven't been scoring AND Luongo has not looked particularly good. These are not mutually exclusive. Both issues can in fact exist at the same time.

Talking about one, has NO relevance to the other. Identifying the lacking play of Luongo relative to his past performance, his cap hit and our expectations of him is not equivalent to blaming him for the overall performance or record of the team.

I don't think I've seen one person here say our lack of scoring isn't the #1 issue with the team, but comments about Luongo are being misconstrued as dismissals of that primary team issue.

Luongo has not looked like a great goalie - as you would expect from his cap hit. He has ranged from very good to very average, even perhaps below average at times. He hasn't thrown games away but he hasn't stoned any teams either (again, what you want to see from a great, highly paid goaltender). This isn't about SV% either (though leaguewide, SV% has been increasing and Luongo's has been very average for the last 100 games or so). His lateral movement on the SJS OT goal was very concerning to see for a goalie we are locked into for many more years.

He fully deserves the entire season to pull things together. This has been a small sample size but it is still noteworthy that he has not been impressive through 20 games.

This was a good effort.

 

[opendoor]

Do you not see how incredibly laughable that statement is? "The Canucks have a problem with goaltending because their goaltender can't single-handedly win games." Wow.

What's the point of paying Luongo like a top 3 goalie and enduring another decade of an awful contract if he can't be counted on to outplay the opposing goalie and steal points occasionally when the team isn't scoring?

 

[y2kcanucks]

What's the point of paying Luongo like a top 3 goalie and enduring another decade of an awful contract if he can't be counted on to outplay the opposing goalie and steal points occasionally when the team isn't scoring?

Didn't realize a cap hit that ranks 11th in the league is considered "top dollar."

 

[Grumbler]

Didn't realize a cap hit that ranks 11th in the league is considered "top dollar."

How long is his contract?

 

[Rotting Corpse*]

So anyway. Florida. What do you folks know about this team. Do they still have the Bure brothers? Is John Vanbiesbrouck going to start? I love his mask.

 

[opendoor]

I'm way more concerned with our first line left winger who's entering his mid-30's and we just re-upped for 4 more years at top dollar scoring at a 63 point pace and producing no points in the past two weeks, than I am with a goaltender who hasn't lost in regulation whenever the team has provided him with more than 1 goal of offensive support all season.

Even if the current D. Sedin is his ceiling going forward, it's quite possible to mitigate a weaker 1st line winger with better depth. That's not possible if Luongo continues his play from the last 12 months going forward given that he can't be given away.

Didn't realize a cap hit that ranks 11th in the league is considered "top dollar."

The only reason his cap hit is 11th is because about 20% of it is being deferred to later years. Frankly I'd rather have his cap hit be $6.7M if it meant not having him on the books while he's retired in Florida.