GDT: Game 23: Blue Jackets @ Coyotes - 6PM - FSAZ PLUS

[Jakey53]

Crouse showed improvement. Very physical, showed some offensive skills, looked confident.. and uhh that's about it.....



Where does this 5th year of the rebuild idea come from??

Rebuilding can be very entertaining or very brutal. Last night it was brutal. Never get too high with a win or too low with a lose. Not much positive except for Crouse, Gaudet and of course Smith. And for all you DT haters it has nothing to do with coaching or system, this game was ALL on the players, except Smith who was brilliant. Can we please get someone, or try someone to play with OEL. Murphy has no business on the first pairing, at all. The teams are focusing on OEL and don't even look at Murphy, because most times his plays end up being turnovers.

 

[MIGs Dog]

Except the young ones are the players he craps on the most. If you are going to change the dynamic of your franchise like that, like Toronto did, you make them your core, not your scapegoat.

There's a great example of how to do this and how to treat those players and it's Toronto. Tippet is not coaching, speaking, or running this team in a way that would make me believe he expected this and intend on changing the face of the team with youth.

The players look like they hate playing hockey right now. That's a horrible sign.

What is your assessment based on? We have no idea how he handles those guys in the locker room, at practice, or what he says to them on the bench. We also don't know what they are thinking. If you do, let the CIA know, they might be interested in talking to you.

 

[Jakey53]

What about the assessment on HNIC? Or many others of our team by other fan bases. Is EVERYONE wrong except the few that think Tippet isn't the problem?

Can you get a link for that HNIC broadcast? I tried to find one but can not.

 

[hbk]

For those that think DT is on the verge of being fired, consider this. What if, what if ownership. Chayka, and DT all agreed going into the season that they were going to go young. Younger than any Yotes team in history. DT said OK, but the consequences are that we will likely lose a lot of games, "I'll do my best, but fellas, it's gonna be ugly".

Could be DT has a free pass this season.

I think the heat is turned up on Tippett but we tied our boat to Tippett. He's got a minimum of 2-3 years to put his stamp on the franchise. To get his guys. Ownership chose Tippett over Maloney. Right or wrong that's the reality. Some impressive long term asset moves have been made since. More than I believed possible but this hasn't translated into a sustained 60 minute effort on the ice.

Now DT is in the same boat he found himself two years ago. The situation that led to his backstabbing Maloney to get control over the team. The dreaded tank decision. Move Hanzal? Does Doan demand to go? Who also?

Can DT the coach now suddenly tolerate tanking when DT is also the VP and Defacto GM?

DT is getting served some humble pie. I do think this team will improve. I believe our asset base has never been better. But I also believe that sticking a knife in a good GM's back is a hell of a lot easier than making that trade for Doug Hamilton.

Me. I'm still torn. I like the trades we've made. Understand why a guy like Duclair should be riding the pine. Yet I love the play of deAngelo, Crouse, even Smith right now.

Is this all on DT? Probably not fair to say it is. Probably wasn't fair to stab Maloney in the back either. Maybe DT is just getting some karma. And we get to suffer along with him.

Embrace the tank? Too early?

 

[Jakey53]

A rare assessment in this thread of what really happened. The players, not the coach, weren't keeping up with the BJ's. Those first and third period performances had nothing to do with sitting back to protect a lead or dump and chase. It had to do only with chasing around players they couldn't keep up with, and losing races and battles for the puck. You can't lead a rush or pass into the zone when your D (including all the forwards) can't even get it out of your own zone.

It's what players tend to do when they feel / are outmatched. The frustration gets worse and the resulting play follows suite.

Yup, that pretty much sums it up.

 

[Jakey53]

I think the heat is turned up on Tippett but we tied our boat to Tippett. He's got a minimum of 2-3 years to put his stamp on the franchise. To get his guys. Ownership chose Tippett over Maloney. Right or wrong that's the reality. Some impressive long term asset moves have been made since. More than I believed possible but this hasn't translated into a sustained 60 minute effort on the ice.

Now DT is in the same boat he found himself two years ago. The situation that led to his backstabbing Maloney to get control over the team. The dreaded tank decision. Move Hanzal? Does Doan demand to go? Who also?

Can DT the coach now suddenly tolerate tanking when DT is also the VP and Defacto GM?

DT is getting served some humble pie. I do think this team will improve. I believe our asset base has never been better. But I also believe that sticking a knife in a good GM's back is a hell of a lot easier than making that trade for Doug Hamilton.

Me. I'm still torn. I like the trades we've made. Understand why a guy like Duclair should be riding the pine. Yet I love the play of deAngelo, Crouse, even Smith right now.

Is this all on DT? Probably not fair to say it is. Probably wasn't fair to stab Maloney in the back either. Maybe DT is just getting some karma. And we get to suffer along with him.

Embrace the tank? Too early?

No one here knows exactly why DM was fired only here say and that it was simmering for a couple of years, and I don't think DT back stabbed DM. The management sees what happens on a daily basis and how everyone interacts with each other. I believe it was a hard decision to fire DM, but Chayka has been very good so far.

 

[Matias Maccete]

What about the assessment on HNIC? Or many others of our team by other fan bases. Is EVERYONE wrong except the few that think Tippet isn't the problem?

What did they say on hnic?

Also even if, and there's very little chance of it happening, we fire Tippett, is it going to be like the experienced agm search? We couldn't attract anyone for that gig. It could be that the problem there isn't so much the team and ownership as much as our unique power structure, and Tippett being fine would fix that, but what if it is the ownership group? I'm on board for just about anyone over Tippett by now, but thinking back to the failed agm search makes a little nervous.

 

[Lyotes]

No one here knows exactly why DM was fired only here say and that it was simmering for a couple of years, and I don't think DT back stabbed DM. The management sees what happens on a daily basis and how everyone interacts with each other. I believe it was a hard decision to fire DM, but Chayka has been very good so far.

Almost all the talent this team has is because of Maloney. Chaykas big signing is really paying off for us....goligoski is soooooo great.....really really great. Best defensman the yotes have.

 

[hbk]

No one here knows exactly why DM was fired only here say and that it was simmering for a couple of years, and I don't think DT back stabbed DM. The management sees what happens on a daily basis and how everyone interacts with each other. I believe it was a hard decision to fire DM, but Chayka has been very good so far.

Tippett absolutely whined to every news outlet he could talk with during the tank season. So many "Maloney didn't check with Tippett" and "Tippett isn't happy with the tank" articles were written and you know the source was Tippett. There were even articles about DT having an out clause that he was going to execute because he was so unhappy. The source was Tippett. The knife is in hands.

The comments at the Maloney firing were " a lack of communication". And this all related back to the tank and how Tippett felt embarrassed because he was the one coaching a team that was expected to lose. He complained and pulled out the knife.

It was a pure backstab. Regardless if I like the deals Tippett and chayka have done. Doesn't change how DT got the big payday and more authority.

The crazy thing is Maloney made the right call to tank. Does DT have too much pride as a coach to let DT the GM do likewise?

 

[Matias Maccete]

Tippett absolutely whined to every news outlet he could talk with during the tank season. So many "Maloney didn't check with Tippett" and "Tippett isn't happy with the tank" articles were written and you know the source was Tippett. There were even articles about DT having an out clause that he was going to execute because he was so unhappy. The source was Tippett. The knife is in hands.

The comments at the Maloney firing were " a lack of communication". And this all related back to the tank and how Tippett felt embarrassed because he was the one coaching a team that was expected to lose. He complained and pulled out the knife.

It was a pure backstab. Regardless if I like the deals Tippett and chayka have done. Doesn't change how DT got the big payday and more authority.

The crazy thing is Maloney made the right call to tank. Does DT have too much pride as a coach to let DT the GM do likewise?

Stop speculating speculatively speculater.

 

[hbk]

Stop speculating speculatively speculater.

Okay.

Tippett articles were written around the time of the tank that indicated DT was extremely upset and he might try to get out of his contract.

Totally unrelated to management changes a year later.

Which speculation seems more likely?

 

[Matias Maccete]

Okay.

Tippett articles were written around the time of the tank that indicated DT was extremely upset and he might try to get out of his contract.

Totally unrelated to management changes a year later.

Which speculation seems more likely?

I was being sarcastic, should've included the emoji.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

I seem to have been painted as the lead Tippett supporter here. I don't owe him anything. He's not married to my sister. I see problems on the ice related to talent and skill, to decision making on the individual level.

Tippett is not responsible for the very poor split second decisions that I see game after game from our front line players. He is responsible for not having the team ready for games, like the early goal last night.

I see a corps of players who might have done well with the time and space in Juniors and the A, but cannot process at the speed necessary at level of the NHL. We screwed up judging players by measurables and not challenging them to show that they had the processing speed to play well in the NHL.

If Tippett leaves, so be it, but until we get some hockey players who can make decisions at the NHL level of play, a new coach will have only the same results. Unless he can dumb down the system even further, and I think that Tippett plays a rather simple system as it is.

 

[Tom Polakis]

What about the assessment on HNIC? Or many others of our team by other fan bases. Is EVERYONE wrong except the few that think Tippet isn't the problem?

I'm not really a Tippett supporter; I couldn't care less if he stays.

My point was that the team wasn't making clean zone entries because they didn't have the puck. The team wasn't sitting on a 2-1 lead. They simply weren't keeping up, which leads to all of the chasing and no puck possession. Not to play the "have your ever played the game?" card, but I recognize what happened from being on the receiving end at the lowest levels of rec leagues. No amount of coaching is going to change it.

For all of the dumping on the coach, I don't see much in the way of prescriptions for improvement. There's the second-guessing of line combinations, and talk about how they should enter the zone correctly and play more up-tempo. Seems like even the worst coach would be able to make a lot of random guesses, and something would work. Well, nothing has worked with this roster, and that seems to point to the players.

 

[Jakey53]

Tippett absolutely whined to every news outlet he could talk with during the tank season. So many "Maloney didn't check with Tippett" and "Tippett isn't happy with the tank" articles were written and you know the source was Tippett. There were even articles about DT having an out clause that he was going to execute because he was so unhappy. The source was Tippett. The knife is in hands.

The comments at the Maloney firing were " a lack of communication". And this all related back to the tank and how Tippett felt embarrassed because he was the one coaching a team that was expected to lose. He complained and pulled out the knife.

It was a pure backstab. Regardless if I like the deals Tippett and chayka have done. Doesn't change how DT got the big payday and more authority.

The crazy thing is Maloney made the right call to tank. Does DT have too much pride as a coach to let DT the GM do likewise?

I guess we agree to disagree. Both DT and DM deserved to see this rebuild thru in my opinion. IF we are in this position next year, then I would say it is time for a change, but I expect we won't

 

[XX]

No amount of coaching is going to change it.

Disagree. The mindset of the players is 75% of the game, the actual tactics chosen are the other 25%. Even an average roster that makes decent choices can be great if they are 100% onboard and motivated. It's psychologically devastating to be asked to do the same exact thing over and over again even though it isn't producing any results. You can see it in Doan's mannerisms during his interview last night, especially when he has no real answer as to how to improve but "be better."

They hate playing hockey right now. You could get a signfiicant performance improvement out of just firing Tippett and Playfair because it's an admittance the players aren't going crazy and that things must change.

 

[Plub]

What did they say on hnic?

Also even if, and there's very little chance of it happening, we fire Tippett, is it going to be like the experienced agm search? We couldn't attract anyone for that gig. It could be that the problem there isn't so much the team and ownership as much as our unique power structure, and Tippett being fine would fix that, but what if it is the ownership group? I'm on board for just about anyone over Tippett by now, but thinking back to the failed agm search makes a little nervous.

They were discussing Smith's big game and showed his interview where he pretty much crapped on the team in general (deservedly so) saying that he doesn't get it and that the team takes one step forward and two steps back, and at some point they need to turn it around. The commentators said that isn't something you want to hear, and likely would never be said in public, but he had such a monstrous game that the team would likely let him slide.

They then pointed out we are the worst team in the NHL.

And one of the guys just shook his head and said the one thing he sees in our team is a complete lack of structure. Not a single praise came Tippet's way (I'm sure you'll remember not long ago anytime we were brought up, Tippet's greatness was also brought up).

In every league, team structure falls on one person's shoulders. The coach.

We have no identity. We play a game that doesn't suit our roster. Our players look like playing is torture at this point. We are forcing a 40 year old onto the ice in key situations he can't handle. Our issues go far beyond on ice play and that's what concerns me. This is a new roster, not the one Tippet took over years ago after TGO. They don't seem to be responding to him, at all.

EDIT: The no structure comment and Smith interview were during the second intermission of the Ana/EDM game.

 

[Plub]

Disagree. The mindset of the players is 75% of the game, the actual tactics chosen are the other 25%. Even an average roster that makes decent choices can be great if they are 100% onboard and motivated.

This is what blows me away.

A few around here boast about their amazing hockey history and yet this has to keep being pointed out to them. Mindset is huge in hockey. If the guys hate going out there every night for one reason or another, they aren't going to perform.

 

[Jakey53]

I seem to have been painted as the lead Tippett supporter here. I don't owe him anything. He's not married to my sister. I see problems on the ice related to talent and skill, to decision making on the individual level.

Tippett is not responsible for the very poor split second decisions that I see game after game from our front line players. He is responsible for not having the team ready for games, like the early goal last night.

I see a corps of players who might have done well with the time and space in Juniors and the A, but cannot process at the speed necessary at level of the NHL. We screwed up judging players by measurables and not challenging them to show that they had the processing speed to play well in the NHL.

If Tippett leaves, so be it, but until we get some hockey players who can make decisions at the NHL level of play, a new coach will have only the same results. Unless he can dumb down the system even further, and I think that Tippett plays a rather simple system as it is.

I'm not really a Tippett supporter; I couldn't care less if he stays.

My point was that the team wasn't making clean zone entries because they didn't have the puck. The team wasn't sitting on a 2-1 lead. They simply weren't keeping up, which leads to all of the chasing and no puck possession. Not to play the "have your ever played the game?" card, but I recognize what happened from being on the receiving end at the lowest levels of rec leagues. No amount of coaching is going to change it.

For all of the dumping on the coach, I don't see much in the way of prescriptions for improvement. There's the second-guessing of line combinations, and talk about how they should enter the zone correctly and play more up-tempo. Seems like even the worst coach would be able to make a lot of random guesses, and something would work. Well, nothing has worked with this roster, and that seems to point to the players.

I agree. DT is not perfect, but the players have to take the blame here. A little effort would go a long ways. I knew this was going to be a roller coaster of a season, but even in losing you would like to see effort. The team has played pretty good the last few games, but even then, you can not allow that many shots a game and expect to win. They may have been relying on Smith too much. In a rebuild you need your vets to show the way until the kids get their confidence and adjust to the NHL, but only Smith and Vrbata have done that. Time for OEL, Doan, Hanzal, Gogo and the like to show up and lead by example. The future is bright, we just hit a rough spot last night, and unfortunately, it will not be our last this year.

 

[rt]

Well, nothing has worked with this roster, and that seems to point to the players.

Or the roster before that. Or the roster before that. Or the roster before that. Or the roster before that.

Hmmm...seems they've tried everything expect cutting the common thread. This situation requires nothing but simple logic to figure out. Fire the coach. Obviously. But these idiots extended him. And it's going to doom the franchise. It was probably doomed already.

 

[Tom Polakis]

Or the roster before that. Or the roster before that. Or the roster before that. Or the roster before that.

Hmmm...seems they've tried everything expect cutting the common thread. This situation requires nothing but simple logic to figure out. Fire the coach. Obviously. But these idiots extended him. And it's going to doom the franchise. It was probably doomed already.

Apparently, my only skill is complicated logic. Is the common thread the coach or the roster before that or the roster before that? You have to go back to the late 1990's to find an example of this team having a roster that was above average. Two of the three playoff series in 2012 showed that this was an average team with very good goaltending. Now you guys are expecting them to win with this roster?

Again, I' not an apologist, and I agree that extending that contract was dumb. We're stuck with Tippett for at least a couple years, so this endless harping on him in the GDT's and demands that he be fired have become tiresome.

 

[XX]

Two of the three playoff series in 2012 showed that this was an average team with very good goaltending. Now you guys are expecting them to win with this roster?

If we're going to show Tippett deference as if he's one of the best coaches in the league, I expect players to at least want to play for him and for him to get results, even with a roster that isn't great. I want to see the "amazing coach" premium. It's not there, and hasn't been for the past 3 or 4 seasons.

You are inadvertently making a great case for him being irrelevant and easy to change out.

 

[_Del_]

I'd like them to compete. Win or lose, I'd like them to compete. We haven't done that in a long time. Coaches have shelf lives. We're past the "best by" date with Tipp. Also, because we are now supposedly rebuilding, I can't think of a worse fit as coach than Tippett. He's still coaching to win every shift, and this is the net result. It isn't working. He can't adapt. He was arguably ripe to be fired a couple years ago. I just want to see some effort on the ice.

 

[Plub]

If this continues and he sticks around, you won't have to worry about harping because no one will give enough ***** to harp.

We aren't EDM. We can't afford to not only play the most boring style in the NHL, but also be the worst team in the NHL. DT isn't just negatively effecting our on ice performance, but the appeal of the franchise in general.

 

[_Del_]

I can feel the mounting apathy. I'll probably sputter out soon to harp no more. Go back to watching Chicago and New Jersey like I did before Phoenix got a team.