GDT: GAME 16 | Islanders @ Senators | (Finally)Back in Black(Friday) Edition | Fri Nov 24th 2023, 7:30PM | TSN5, RDS

[Loach]

I wouldn't argue with your thoughts on chain of command. I'm curious though. Do you think POHO should replace DJ now or soon (or should have)?

He has no thoughts. Just asks questions and won't answer any.

 

[LiseL]

We collapsed in 2nd period. Three goals allowed in 3 minutes approx. I don't think Forsberg was to blame for all of those goals.

I mean if Forsberg's goaltending was the only problem this team had, then Korpisalo wouldn't have 4 losses (he has a 5 W 4 L record).

I agree, we need better goaltending from Anton. But, that isn't our only problem and that won't fix all that needs to be fixed to be a good team. I'm putting some emphasis on being a good team versus one that barely manages to squeak into the playoffs.

I remember the interview with Andlauer when he hired SS. They were asked about making the playoffs. Paraphrasing here but they both said something like this team wasn't there yet. This team seems very fragile, soft, thin-skinned, whatever you want to call it. Also can't seem to grasp the meaning of playing as a 5 man unit the entire game: not just in spurts. Too much individual play, cheating, indecision; not enough checking, hitting, puck possession. I hope this can be fixed with a new coach but I wouldn't bet my house on it. I think some of the problems go beyond coaching.

 

[Micklebot]

We collapsed in 2nd period. Three goals allowed in 3 minutes approx. I don't think Forsberg was to blame for all of those goals.

I mean if Forsberg's goaltending was the only problem this team had, then Korpisalo wouldn't have 4 losses (he has a 5 W 4 L record).

I agree, we need better goaltending from Anton. But, that isn't our only problem and that won't fix all that needs to be fixed to be a good team. I'm putting some emphasis on being a good team versus one that barely manages to squeak into the playoffs.

I suppose, but Forsberg has statistically been one of if not the worst goalie in the NHL this year, worse sv%, 3rd worst GSAA, worst GSAA/60, sure the guys have allowed some quality scoring chances but goalies are there to cover up for the mistakes, he's got to make some saves.

 

[albator71]

Exactly
And you know what?
There's always next season
Or next
Or never

Every NHL team goes through stretches where they missed the playoffs, Toronto, Carolina, Tampa Bay, Colorado, Ny Rangers. The Sens will bounced back and be a top team again we just don't know when.

 

[JD1]

We collapsed in 2nd period. Three goals allowed in 3 minutes approx. I don't think Forsberg was to blame for all of those goals.

I mean if Forsberg's goaltending was the only problem this team had, then Korpisalo wouldn't have 4 losses (he has a 5 W 4 L record).

I agree, we need better goaltending from Anton. But, that isn't our only problem and that won't fix all that needs to be fixed to be a good team. I'm putting some emphasis on being a good team versus one that barely manages to squeak into the playoffs.

We collapsed in the 2nd period?

Here's the advanced stats for that period, all in our favour

Sf/sa 11/6
SCF/SCA 16/6
HDCF 8/3
Nyi's expected goals .49

Everything about those stats says that basically the puck went in our net everytime it was in our end.

You can't build momentum like that. Not within a game and not game to game.

I fully understand there's things that need improving but you struggle to even start improving when you get that level of goaltending

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

I wouldn't argue with your thoughts on chain of command. I'm curious though. Do you think POHO should replace DJ now or soon (or should have)?

I think the POHO number one priority right now, is getting the GM he wants…. Sooner rather than later…. If that happens “Soon” then the performance of the team on the ice moves up to the top of his, and the GMs priority list, and should be dealt with if required.

If the desired GM is not available until the off-season, then the performance on the ice should be the top priority…..and if the team is headed south, and dropping out of the wild card mix, then a move at the head coaching position should be considered…with a interim appointed.

I think the window is closing on DJS, and with all the GIH the Senators have on teams above them in the Wild Card standings, he has at the max, the next 13 games to make a big move upwards in the wildcard standings to retain his position….. that would bring the Senators up to the XMas (3 day) break.

looking at the Schedule, the Senators are in tough, with games against a lot of quality teams, and I’m sure the POHO is already thinking ahead, and will make the proper move, if required….. so is the players like their coach, they need to perform, if they don’t and DJS doesn’t stop being mister nice guy, and starts holding players accountable and perhaps even naming names, no matter who they are, then his job as head coach will end sooner, rather than later….If he does not see this writing on the wall…. He will be gone sooner….. perhaps just before the five game road trip after the Carolina game?

 

[Burrowsaurus]

I remember the interview with Andlauer when he hired SS. They were asked about making the playoffs. Paraphrasing here but they both said something like this team wasn't there yet. This team seems very fragile, soft, thin-skinned, whatever you want to call it. Also can't seem to grasp the meaning of playing as a 5 man unit the entire game: not just in spurts. Too much individual play, cheating, indecision; not enough checking, hitting, puck possession. I hope this can be fixed with a new coach but I wouldn't bet my house on it. I think some of the problems go beyond coaching.

Well you’d think we would try to fix those things asap. Dj isn’t fixing those things

 

[Big Muddy]

We collapsed in the 2nd period?

Here's the advanced stats for that period, all in our favour

Sf/sa 11/6
SCF/SCA 16/6
HDCF 8/3
Nyi's expected goals .49

Everything about those stats says that basically the puck went in our net everytime it was in our end.

You can't build momentum like that. Not within a game and not game to game.

I fully understand there's things that need improving but you struggle to even start improving when you get that level of goaltending

Yes, when you allow 3 goals in about 3 minutes, I'll call that a collapse.

If the teams only issue, problem or deficiency is the goaltending of Forsberg, why have we also lost when that goaltender is sitting on the bench and not even playing in the game?

If we were outscored by our opponent, not as good at defending as our opponent, having more breakdowns and making more mistakes than our opponents, how is that the fault of Forsberg in those games when he's not even playing and is sitting on the bench?

Seeing as how people want to talk about stats, why is there such an aversion or reluctance to talk about the most important stat of them all = Wins?

 

[HF Reader]

I think the POHO number one priority right now, is getting the GM he wants…. Sooner rather than later…. If that happens “Soon” then the performance of the team on the ice moves up to the top of his, and the GMs priority list, and should be dealt with if required.

If the desired GM is not available until the off-season, then the performance on the ice should be the top priority…..and if the team is headed south, and dropping out of the wild card mix, then a move at the head coaching position should be considered…with a interim appointed.

View attachment 773560

I think the window is closing on DJS, and with all the GIH the Senators have on teams above them in the Wild Card standings, he has at the max, the next 13 games to make a big move upwards in the wildcard standings to retain his position….. that would bring the Senators up to the XMas (3 day) break.

looking at the Schedule, the Senators are in tough, with games against a lot of quality teams, and I’m sure the POHO is already thinking ahead, and will make the proper move, if required….. so is the players like their coach, they need to perform, if they don’t and DJS doesn’t stop being mister nice guy, and starts holding players accountable and perhaps even naming names, no matter who they are, then his job as head coach will end sooner, rather than later….If he does not see this writing on the wall…. He will be gone sooner….. perhaps just before the five game road trip after the Carolina game?


View attachment 773561

Thanks for the thoughtful response. I think what you have written is a sober way of looking at it and I suspect the situation will play out as you describe.

I lack the knowledge to diagnose the root problem on the ice. Bad system/structure? The players don't get it? Other?

Watching the team triggers me to want to hire an interim coach or assistant to get the team playing better defence. That might not be possible.

 

[Big Muddy]

I suppose, but Forsberg has statistically been one of if not the worst goalie in the NHL this year, worse sv%, 3rd worst GSAA, worst GSAA/60, sure the guys have allowed some quality scoring chances but goalies are there to cover up for the mistakes, he's got to make some saves.

I have said a few times already that Forsberg hasn't been good. However, I am making the point that its not the only issue or problem that the Senators have.

If the team's only issue, problem or deficiency is the goaltending of Forsberg, why have we also lost when that goaltender is sitting on the bench and not even playing in the game?

If we were outscored by our opponent, not as good at defending as our opponent, having more breakdowns and making more mistakes than our opponents, how is that the fault of Forsberg in those games when he's not even playing and is sitting on the bench?

I get that people like stats and like to use them to try to make a point, or to support a theory. But the most important stat of all are Wins (or Losses) and we lose games even when our so called "only problem" is not even playing in the game. Basic logic and common sense indicates there must be other problems even if we are reluctant to admit them.

 

[Micklebot]

I have said a few times already that Forsberg hasn't been good. However, I am making the point that its not the only issue or problem that the Senators have.

If the team's only issue, problem or deficiency is the goaltending of Forsberg, why have we also lost when that goaltender is sitting on the bench and not even playing in the game?

If we were outscored by our opponent, not as good at defending as our opponent, having more breakdowns and making more mistakes than our opponents, how is that the fault of Forsberg in those games when he's not even playing and is sitting on the bench?

I get that people like stats and like to use them to try to make a point, or to support a theory. But the most important stat of all are Wins (or Losses) and we lose games even when our so called "only problem" is not even playing in the game. Basic logic and common sense indicates there must be other problems even if we are reluctant to admit them.

Well, no team has only one issue, at least not ones at our stage in development. I've yet to see anyone claim our only issue is goaltending either, so I'm not sure why you feel the point needs to be argued.

Obviously health is/was a problem, having all three of Zub, Brannstrom and Chabot out for two of those loses is tough to overcome, but you have very little chance of overcoming those injuries if you're getting sub par goaltending.

We have some structural issues too, guys are letting the forwards get behind the d at times and score on deflection, puck management could be improved

I don't think anyone is reluctant to admit other problems. People have mostly been willing to point out where we can improve.

The thing is, when you have half your games played getting goaltending you can't trust, it's going to impact the guys in front. Goalies need to give the skaters confidence that if they stick to the system, he'll be there as that last line of defence, this is doubly true for young teams that may not have the experience to fall back on when things go wrong.

 

[Big Muddy]

Well, no team has only one issue, at least not ones at our stage in development. I've yet to see anyone claim our only issue is goaltending either, so I'm not sure why you feel the point needs to be argued.

I get the impression reading posts that some posters need that single, smoking gun reason to blame everything on. I've read this multiple times from multiple posters, so it's not exactly a rarity.

Something tells me (basic logic & common sense) that not everything can be blamed on bad goaltending from one of our goaltenders when that goaltender does not play every game and even our better goaltender has lost multiple games.

We are in 21st place (league wide) with a .500 record. Goalies that have done poorly here have much better stats after being traded to teams that are better. That suggests that we need to see some rather significant improvements in multiple areas in my mind.

Anyhow, at this point I'll be repeating the same points in future posts. So, I think we've run this to ground now.

 

[BankStreetParade]

I get the impression reading posts that some posters need that single, smoking gun reason to blame everything on. I've read this multiple times from multiple posters, so it's not exactly a rarity.

Something tells me (basic logic & common sense) that not everything can be blamed on bad goaltending from one of our goaltenders when that goaltender does not play every game and even our better goaltender has lost multiple games.

We are in 21st place (league wide) with a .500 record. Goalies that have done poorly here have much better stats after being traded to teams that are better. That suggests that we need to see some rather significant improvements in multiple areas in my mind.

Anyhow, at this point I'll be repeating the same points in future posts. So, I think we've run this to ground now.

Just like the people who insist every loss is DJ's fault and every win is in spite of him? Is it that kind of single, smoking gun reason to blame everything on? Or is this somehow a different version? Also, you're posting in the Islanders GDT. I think one of the obvious reasons they lost that game is because of the shit goaltending they got. Or do you have a different assessment of what you saw from Forsberg in that game?

 

[bert]

I remember the interview with Andlauer when he hired SS. They were asked about making the playoffs. Paraphrasing here but they both said something like this team wasn't there yet. This team seems very fragile, soft, thin-skinned, whatever you want to call it. Also can't seem to grasp the meaning of playing as a 5 man unit the entire game: not just in spurts. Too much individual play, cheating, indecision; not enough checking, hitting, puck possession. I hope this can be fixed with a new coach but I wouldn't bet my house on it. I think some of the problems go beyond coaching.

I think Staios is likely still evaluating all the personnel. Players and coach's, which is the best way to go about it. As impatient as we all are Staios just got here. The next decision will be a big one, I'm sure he wants all the necessary data before he makes it. I am sure he recognizes they need a new voice but he probably isn't exactly sure what the right voice is for this group.

 

[bert]

Just like the people who insist every loss is DJ's fault and every win is in spite of him? Is it that kind of single, smoking gun reason to blame everything on? Or is this somehow a different version? Also, you're posting in the Islanders GDT. I think one of the obvious reasons they lost that game is because of the shit goaltending they got. Or do you have a different assessment of what you saw from Forsberg in that game?

I feel like most people know there's is never one person to blame. But its easier to blame one person or facet of the team than looking big picture. Coaching can effect the team in more areas and DJ has been here for a while so he is going to get the majority of the heat. Way easier to fire a coach than all the players. But people are kidding themselves if they think it's 1 thing. Everyone bares some level of responsibility.

 

[Micklebot]

I get the impression reading posts that some posters need that single, smoking gun reason to blame everything on. I've read this multiple times from multiple posters, so it's not exactly a rarity.

Something tells me (basic logic & common sense) that not everything can be blamed on bad goaltending from one of our goaltenders when that goaltender does not play every game and even our better goaltender has lost multiple games.

Nobody is blaming everything on goaltending though. It happens to be a significant problem so it gets discussed, just like people discuss the defensive structure

We are in 21st place (league wide) with a .500 record. Goalies that have done poorly here have much better stats after being traded to teams that are better. That suggests that we need to see some rather significant improvements in multiple areas in my mind.

Gustavsson currently has worse stats than he ever had here. Murray posted very similar numbers in Toronto to what he did here. Anton Forsberg had the best year of his career here in Ottawa wasn't seen as an issue last year outside of not being available due to an injury, Nilsson saw a big improvement coming here from Vancouver. So that leaves Talbot? I thought he got criticized more than he deserved and struggled with some injuries while here, but I'm also fairly sure what he's doing in LA wasn't expected by anyone.

Anyhow, at this point I'll be repeating the same points in future posts. So, I think we've run this to ground now.

I just don't understand why bringing up how big of an issue a 850 sv% is somehow equates to people suggesting it's the magic bullet to solve the teams problems, it's one of our bigger problems and any path to the playoffs will need it to be resolved regardless of what other issues exist.

 

[Wondercarrot]

Isles right back to shooting blanks last night.
1-0 loss vs Flyers.

 

[Big Muddy]

Just like the people who insist every loss is DJ's fault and every win is in spite of him? Is it that kind of single, smoking gun reason to blame everything on? Or is this somehow a different version? Also, you're posting in the Islanders GDT. I think one of the obvious reasons they lost that game is because of the shit goaltending they got. Or do you have a different assessment of what you saw from Forsberg in that game?

Your reaching and claiming I said things that I didn't say.

I didn't place all the blame on DJs coaching in my post, or in general.

I didn't say goaltending wasn't "one of" the reasons they lost.

I did say there were multiple reasons (more than one) that the Senators lost this Islander game. My previous posts provided different reasons. I'm not going to keep repeating the same points for your benefit when you can just read my posts.

 

[JD1]

I think Staios is likely still evaluating all the personnel. Players and coach's, which is the best way to go about it. As impatient as we all are Staios just got here. The next decision will be a big one, I'm sure he wants all the necessary data before he makes it. I am sure he recognizes they need a new voice but he probably isn't exactly sure what the right voice is for this group.

Well said

 

[JD1]

Nobody is blaming everything on goaltending though. It happens to be a significant problem so it gets discussed, just like people discuss the defensive structure


Gustavsson currently has worse stats than he ever had here. Murray posted very similar numbers in Toronto to what he did here. Anton Forsberg had the best year of his career here in Ottawa wasn't seen as an issue last year outside of not being available due to an injury, Nilsson saw a big improvement coming here from Vancouver. So that leaves Talbot? I thought he got criticized more than he deserved and struggled with some injuries while here, but I'm also fairly sure what he's doing in LA wasn't expected by anyone.

I just don't understand why bringing up how big of an issue a 850 sv% is somehow equates to people suggesting it's the magic bullet to solve the teams problems, it's one of our bigger problems and any path to the playoffs will need it to be resolved regardless of what other issues exist.

You know I kinda think that Talbot never really got in a groove. 3 injuries he had last year? Including right out of camp. Kinda like Joseph's year. You just keep reinjuring something and never get on track. Both of those guys are healthy this year and having terrific years.

Forsberg's .850 sv%. Hockey is about momentum. Period to period. Game to game. There's been zero consistency to Forsberg. It's pretty fair to say that he hasn't provided goaltending good enough to give us a chance in half his starts this year. There's no way to build team consistency in that situation. Edmonton is another example of that.

If Korpisalo can't go tomorrow, I hope we see Sogaard.

 

[Big Muddy]

Nobody is blaming everything on goaltending though. It happens to be a significant problem so it gets discussed, just like people discuss the defensive structure


Gustavsson currently has worse stats than he ever had here. Murray posted very similar numbers in Toronto to what he did here. Anton Forsberg had the best year of his career here in Ottawa wasn't seen as an issue last year outside of not being available due to an injury, Nilsson saw a big improvement coming here from Vancouver. So that leaves Talbot? I thought he got criticized more than he deserved and struggled with some injuries while here, but I'm also fairly sure what he's doing in LA wasn't expected by anyone.

I go by what is posted. Several posts have called attention to bad goaltending from Forsberg as THE reason for the losses. I can read.

If they want to make a more nuanced point and post stating it is "one of the reasons", they are free to do so. All it takes is typing an extra sentence (i.e., minimal effort). I don't read people's minds.

Gustavsson played well last year as did the Wild; 11th overall in league standings with 103 points. This year they are the 4th worst team in the league. Not surprisingly, Gustavsson's stats mirror the teams standings and success. And yes, Talbot's stats look much better playing with the LA Kings who are a much better team.

 

[Golden_Jet]

You know I kinda think that Talbot never really got in a groove. 3 injuries he had last year? Including right out of camp. Kinda like Joseph's year. You just keep reinjuring something and never get on track. Both of those guys are healthy this year and having terrific years.

Forsberg's .850 sv%. Hockey is about momentum. Period to period. Game to game. There's been zero consistency to Forsberg. It's pretty fair to say that he hasn't provided goaltending good enough to give us a chance in half his starts this year. There's no way to build team consistency in that situation. Edmonton is another example of that.

If Korpisalo can't go tomorrow, I hope we see Sogaard.

Jarventie and Soogard sent back to Belleville. Sounds like Korpi now good enough to backup.

 

[LiseL]

Well said

I also think he wants to put the GM in place first so he/she can help determine the right voice, if any roster changes are required, etc. SS doesn't have a lot of experience so I don't see him making any rash decisions. Also, as I stated in an earlier post, both Andlauer and SS stated in an interview that Ottawa was not a playoff team yet. They were asked about making the playoffs, the basically said the team wasn't there yet. This is another reason I don't see SS doing anything till the off-season, regardless of the team's standing. One thing I'm pretty certain about is that even if they make the playoffs, if they don't play a more cohesive defensive structure between now and then, it'll be a short run. Because of their inexperience, I see most of them just being happy they made the cut. Not many of them are willing to put it all on the line to get a win. It could simply be a case that we have too many injury prone players on this roster IMO.

 

[JD1]

I also think he wants to put the GM in place first so he/she can help determine the right voice, if any roster changes are required, etc. SS doesn't have a lot of experience so I don't see him making any rash decisions. Also, as I stated in an earlier post, both Andlauer and SS stated in an interview that Ottawa was not a playoff team yet. They were asked about making the playoffs, the basically said the team wasn't there yet. This is another reason I don't see SS doing anything till the off-season, regardless of the team's standing. One thing I'm pretty certain about is that even if they make the playoffs, if they don't play a more cohesive defensive structure between now and then, it'll be a short run. Because of their inexperience, I see most of them just being happy they made the cut. Not many of them are willing to put it all on the line to get a win. It could simply be a case that we have too many injury prone players on this roster IMO.

Well, I agree about a clock reset. New ownership and management that wants to build a winning culture. No knee jerk reactions. Measure twice. Cut once. Do it right.

Jarventie and Soogard sent back to Belleville. Sounds like Korpi now good enough to backup.

I presume that means Korpisalo starts. I hope so.

I'm going tomorrow. Driving from the east end for 7 pm starts is a bitch. I'll be pissed if Forsberg starts and pitches an .850 game

 

[JD1]

Jarventie and Soogard sent back to Belleville. Sounds like Korpi now good enough to backup.

I'm not surprised to see Jarventie go down. He doesn't seem strong enough yet.