Post-Game Talk: Game 14: Penalty Kill'em With Kindness | Blackhawks vs. Blues | 11/9/16 7 p.m. (CSN)

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

The PK is so much more aggressive, Moose especially. It's backed opposing defenseman back to the blue line and instead of walking the line and getting a shot on net with a ton of traffic all they can do is hurry a pass to the other d or get it deep.

Good to see.

 

[hawksfan50]

So Panarin leadss us in scoring with 2 points including the GWG...leads us in +/- with +2....has a Gordon Howe Hatty. ..leads us with 9 ...count them 9 shot attempts of which 6 were on goal ...2 were misses of the net including 1 miss that hit the cross-bar and 1 shot attempt that got blocked..but 9 shot attempts in only a bit over 17 minutes played plus 28 seconds of OT...

Now he gets lambasted by posters here for a bad night?

He was allegedly a turnover machine due to bad passing..wrong ..how does 1 Give-away count as a turnover machine (see event summary...only 1 GV)..also he had 1 Take-away ...which was 1 more than Toews managed despite Toews playing 8 minutes more..

Come on..I think I take Panarin's night every time and am happy with it..

Could his passing have been better? Sure..bit he was not a turnover machine per the official stats..

What is never counter as turnovers on gove-aways stats are clearing attempts ..I cannot say how many times our players. ..especially our d-men ..but many forwards too...fail to get picks out past the oposing points or forecheck ing forwards ..and so pucks stay in our zone too long at times when bad clear attempts hapoen..STL are among the best in tge league at pressuring and forcing failed clears from our zone..you gotta give then some credit for forcing non-connecting passes too...I do not think you will get a lot of space and time to make pretty tic-tac-toe passing clinics against a good defensive team like STL..so a lot of tge crossing passes Panarin may not have executed..I yjink you gotta give STL credit for pressuring and positional coverage to intercept..So I for one..considering everything ..am not going to say Panarin had a bad night ..a poir night..or whatever you want to call it. AS IF only he was the main cause why we did not demolish the Blues instead of squeezing by with a 1 goal victory.

AND the way...3 nhl games last night..all decided by 1 goal..low scoring..only 1 of the 6 Tean's managed 3 goals (CBJ)...I do not imagine anyone I watching the other 2 games saw a great passing clinic by anyone either ..low scoring ..tight checking..not a lot of time and space..when you do get more as in tge PP ..well STL is one of tge best pk teams I the league ..so you are not going to execute a padding clinic o them even with them a man down..they will keep you tp the perimeter and block passing lanes and block shots. .Such blockage is now rampant in the league as blocked shots are way up over what it used to be in the league a few years ago..And so when goaltending is wall level and you play a good defensive team anyway ..well you are hardly going to see great passing displays ..Again..Tge criticism Panarin had a poir game is way off base eve if his passion g as tge critics contend was not at his usual standard..tge fact is he did produce and did generate scoring chance...9 attempted shots in about 18 minutes played is pretty good ..2 went in..also Good. .+2 also good. .1GV but offset by 1 TK..so why the singling out criticism.of his game last night..and tge fight..O thought he won it convincing gly not.lostbit as one poster said..So Co e on..lay off him..wish other players we had got us 2 goals ..what about them?

IF we want to criticize anybody..Keith ...as left point QB on our PP..atrocious...faiks to keep pucks in too much..when he does he rarely gets points t shots through. .if tge get through ...rarely..he is not exCtly Shea Weber besting goalies with his shot..He is messing up our PP...nerd to find another solution..Seabrook also not scoring goals off te point.Neitgerbis Campbell but maybe he is on the wrong side?THE point is all of our d-men on the PP ought to be doing better..they are not ..they his is a bigger concern than some false accusations that Panarin had a poor game.Get your focus on the biggest problems!

 

[BobbyJet]

Didn't Q make the change after AA got hurt?

Schmaltz was solid last night. He did not shy away from the game (like TT did and no I am not off the TT talent train yet).

Let's not have another biased view here (like you did with TT before he got traded.

Schmaltz has had some good moments but tends to play small like you'd expect from most 20 year old rookies. He has been pretty good, IMO. He wasn't bad last night but Blues exposed him at times. I reckon that'll be one of his tougher tests however and he did okay in a difficult building to play in.

I could probably say pretty much the same thing about Forsling.

 

[Blue Liner]

Let's not have another biased view here (like you did with TT before he got traded.

Schmaltz has had some good moments but tends to play small like you'd expect from most 20 year old rookies. He has been pretty good, IMO. He wasn't bad last night but Blues exposed him at times. I reckon that'll be one of his tougher tests however and he did okay in a difficult building to play in.

Is his brother up with the Blues right now?

 

[BK]

Let's not have another biased view here (like you did with TT before he got traded.

Schmaltz has had some good moments but tends to play small like you'd expect from most 20 year old rookies. He has been pretty good, IMO. He wasn't bad last night but Blues exposed him at times. I reckon that'll be one of his tougher tests however and he did okay in a difficult building to play in.

So you call me out for being biased then agree with me...solid. Schmaltz was solid last night and I find it hard to see how you would see otherwise. I didn't say good or great.

I talked about TT's talent and potential. I acknowledged he was weak and needed to show more so don't even try to say that. Was I biased yes but many others were just plain ignorant to how player development works.

 

[BobbyJet]

So you call me out for being biased then agree with me...solid. Schmaltz was solid last night and I find it hard to see how you would see otherwise. I didn't say good or great.

I talked about TT's talent and potential. I acknowledged he was weak and needed to show more so don't even try to say that. Was I biased yes but many others were just plain ignorant to how player development works.

Sure if "okay = solid" in your book that's fine with me.

 

[BK]

Sure if "okay = solid" in your book that's fine with me.

Bad = F to C-.
Okay/Solid = C to B
Good/Great = B+ to A

Schmaltz was a B- last night.

 

[SAADfather]

Just wondering. Have you ever played the game? It is so easy to sit in your arm chair and criticise. Does Panarin's compete level not count for anything? It certainly should - If all the Blackhawks played with that intensity they'd be a much better team.

Q's post game comments saying the same:

https://www.nhl.com/blackhawks/video/coach-q-on-anisimov-ot-win/t-277437096/c-46208903

In fairness I've played at a high enough level where fighting is allowed and EVERY coach I've ever had in junior said you don't fight in the third period unless it is absolutely nesscary. I would think any coach however would be thrilled with their fourth liner going out and picking a fight to take the one of the other teams top scorers out for the entire rest of regulation.

Like I've said I love that fire Panarin plays with and I'm glad it worked out for him but he needs to pick his spots a little better.

 

[BobbyJet]

Bad = F to C-.
Okay/Solid = C to B
Good/Great = B+ to A

Schmaltz was a B- last night.

I'll give him a C then.

 

[piteus]

So Panarin leadss us in scoring with 2 points including the GWG...leads us in +/- with +2....has a Gordon Howe Hatty. ..leads us with 9 ...count them 9 shot attempts of which 6 were on goal ...2 were misses of the net including 1 miss that hit the cross-bar and 1 shot attempt that got blocked..but 9 shot attempts in only a bit over 17 minutes played plus 28 seconds of OT...

Now he gets lambasted by posters here for a bad night?

He was allegedly a turnover machine due to bad passing..wrong ..how does 1 Give-away count as a turnover machine (see event summary...only 1 GV)..also he had 1 Take-away ...which was 1 more than Toews managed despite Toews playing 8 minutes more..

Come on..I think I take Panarin's night every time and am happy with it..

Could his passing have been better? Sure..bit he was not a turnover machine per the official stats..

What is never counter as turnovers on gove-aways stats are clearing attempts ..I cannot say how many times our players. ..especially our d-men ..but many forwards too...fail to get picks out past the oposing points or forecheck ing forwards ..and so pucks stay in our zone too long at times when bad clear attempts hapoen..STL are among the best in tge league at pressuring and forcing failed clears from our zone..you gotta give then some credit for forcing non-connecting passes too...I do not think you will get a lot of space and time to make pretty tic-tac-toe passing clinics against a good defensive team like STL..so a lot of tge crossing passes Panarin may not have executed..I yjink you gotta give STL credit for pressuring and positional coverage to intercept..So I for one..considering everything ..am not going to say Panarin had a bad night ..a poir night..or whatever you want to call it. AS IF only he was the main cause why we did not demolish the Blues instead of squeezing by with a 1 goal victory.

AND the way...3 nhl games last night..all decided by 1 goal..low scoring..only 1 of the 6 Tean's managed 3 goals (CBJ)...I do not imagine anyone I watching the other 2 games saw a great passing clinic by anyone either ..low scoring ..tight checking..not a lot of time and space..when you do get more as in tge PP ..well STL is one of tge best pk teams I the league ..so you are not going to execute a padding clinic o them even with them a man down..they will keep you tp the perimeter and block passing lanes and block shots. .Such blockage is now rampant in the league as blocked shots are way up over what it used to be in the league a few years ago..And so when goaltending is wall level and you play a good defensive team anyway ..well you are hardly going to see great passing displays ..Again..Tge criticism Panarin had a poir game is way off base eve if his passion g as tge critics contend was not at his usual standard..tge fact is he did produce and did generate scoring chance...9 attempted shots in about 18 minutes played is pretty good ..2 went in..also Good. .+2 also good. .1GV but offset by 1 TK..so why the singling out criticism.of his game last night..and tge fight..O thought he won it convincing gly not.lostbit as one poster said..So Co e on..lay off him..wish other players we had got us 2 goals ..what about them?

IF we want to criticize anybody..Keith ...as left point QB on our PP..atrocious...faiks to keep pucks in too much..when he does he rarely gets points t shots through. .if tge get through ...rarely..he is not exCtly Shea Weber besting goalies with his shot..He is messing up our PP...nerd to find another solution..Seabrook also not scoring goals off te point.Neitgerbis Campbell but maybe he is on the wrong side?THE point is all of our d-men on the PP ought to be doing better..they are not ..they his is a bigger concern than some false accusations that Panarin had a poor game.Get your focus on the biggest problems!

Wow ... is this really you Fiddy? This was a positive and informative post. Yeah, we should really discuss if Keith belongs leading our power play from the point. He's sure handed ... but he puts little pressure on the opponent's PK.

 

[Hawkaholic]

Exactly. Time and place was fine.

Other than staged fight s between goons, you don't choose a good time for a fight.

If it's a playoff game, I'd want him to show restraint.

Exactly how I felt at the time too. I am OK with him defending himself and showing that he can do it. Maybe the next player thinks twice about their next cheapshot or dropping the gloves with him.

 

[JaegerDice]

The 'these are human beings with emotions' argument isnt particularly convincing IMO.

Players ignore and play through antagonism, irritation and frustration all the time. We expect them to for the best interest of the team and winning games, just as we expect countless other people working any number of other jobs to put aside the desire to let lose on idiot coworkers and clients for the best interest of the company.

There are times and contexts where the potential impact of responding is negligible. If Panarin wants to go Tyson in 5-2 game with 5 minutes left, fine. A 1-0 game against a division opponent is legitimately the stupidest time to pull that nonsense, short of the playoffs.

 

[Hawkaholic]

, just as we expect countless other people working any number of other jobs to put aside the desire to let lose on idiot coworkers and clients for the best interest of the company.

Is this serious?

The comparison is silly.

 

[JaegerDice]

Is this serious?

The comparison is silly.

People subdue their own momentary frustration all the time, both in professional sports and outside them.

The idea that Panarin's situation was particularly triggering, either by hockey or everyday life standards is nonsense. Players take worse physical tolls than he did last night all the time. It was purely mental/emotional frustration, and mental/emotional frustration is hardly exclusive to professional athletes.

 

[Hawkaholic]

Except the fact that you can't get fired from hockey if you fight.(That's why it's a silly comparison)

You aren't the one out there taking the abuse, and probably have never been in that position in hockey. So your words can be taken with a grain of salt.

 

[JaegerDice]

#playedDaGame!

Always a compelling argument.

 

[piteus]

People subdue their own momentary frustration all the time, both in professional sports and outside them.

The idea that Panarin's situation was particularly triggering, either by hockey or everyday life standards is nonsense. Players take worse physical tolls than he did last night all the time. It was purely mental/emotional frustration, and mental/emotional frustration is hardly exclusive to professional athletes.

Do not compare a locker room to the regular workplace. That's how we get into trouble when fans, use their sensibilities, on locker room behavior. Yes, some of the culture needs to change for the better ... but let's not ignore the fact the locker room is different and always will be.

Even the greatest, most calm, high IQ athletes retaliate when pushed too far. Michael Jordan swung at Reggie Miller and even hit his own teammate, Steve Kerr. Andre Dawson charged the mound (Eric Show). Walter Payton got into fights. Toews drops his gloves.

It happens to all of us. At some point, you say enough is enough ... especially if you know the consequence is only 5 minutes of alone time.

 

[Kurtosis]

#playedDaGame!

Always a compelling argument.

In this instance it is.

 

[JaegerDice]

In this instance it is.

Once again, innumerable nhl players take similar or worse abuse in games than Panarin did last night without responding.

1-0 with 5 minutes left to play against a division opponent is an idiotic time to fight. Save the tantrum for a better time with lower stakes.

 

[LDF]

Once again, innumerable nhl players take similar or worse abuse in games than Panarin did last night without responding.

1-0 with 5 minutes left to play against a division opponent is an idiotic time to fight. Save the tantrum for a better time with lower stakes.

this is one of the discussion i have been waiting for. the right time and the wrong time.

i really can't remember who said it, originally. but in the late 80's, pat foley used to get mad at some ill time penalties, esp fighting. he mention that was a time players didn't have self control or was more worried about them selves instead of the team.

there is a coined phrase that comes to me, a player will wait, until the next time they meet.

 

[ChiHawks10]

#playedDaGame!

Always a compelling argument.

Sorry JD, but in hockey, it usually is. Not remotely the same as most other pro sports, IMO. Although to some, it may be. Football players probably see the game differently than I do, since I never played, but football is much more x's and o's than hockey. Same with baseball. It's just different with hockey. You can laugh all you want, but it's the truth.

Most people who have never played the game, just don't understand it quite like the people who have. It's nothing against them personally, but they just don't. When I sit and watch a game with my buddy, who actually did play the game for like two years of house league before highschool, even HE has very little clue as to what all is going on and why most the time. No clue about systems, set plays, situational play, emotions, locker room stuff, matchups, line chemistry, etc. When I watch with my sister, who grew up watching my brother and I both play, spending basically her ENTIRE life in ice rinks from newborn baby on up to probably 15 or 16 years old, even SHE doesn't quite understand the little nuances of the game, or see it the way I do. Same with my parents, who spent countless hours, days, and years watching the game played by both my brother and I at a high level, in practices, and game situations. They don't see the game the same way I do, not even remotely close.

Whereas those who HAVE played the game see it in a different way, from different angles, and through different eyes. Hard to explain it, but it's the honest to god truth. And there's no way around it. You can be sarcastic about it being a "compelling argument", but the fact is, if you haven't played, then you will never truly understand the game, the locker room, the atmosphere, the camaraderie, the brotherhood, the emotions, etc the way those who have, do. And that's no offense to those people. It's just the way it is. Whether you think it's amusing or not.

And this post is in no way meant to come off as elitist, or I'm better than you type of **** because of playing the game. Again, it's no fault of those who haven't played, but it's the way it goes with this crazy game we all love. It's just different. Hard to describe. The same vision that players have on the ice for the game... is the same vision, IMO, that allows them to see the game differently from those who never played. Just my 2 cents on that.

 

[Your Reality Check]

"If you played the game you'd understand why hockey players are meathead dumbasses"

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

"If you played the game you'd understand why hockey players are meathead dumbasses"

Yup.

Edit: Though I'd change why to that.

 

[Callidusblackhawk]

"If you played the game you'd understand why hockey players are meathead dumbasses"

Haha this is perfect!

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

That is more or less the culture though.