Proposal: Gallagher for Ovechkin, would you do it?

[HABS win CUPS*]

A poll was added -- I guess it wasn't obvious enough.

no i thought it was funny but then you think what would it take

 

[Alexdaman]

I just saw this as i was lurking the boards, this is something you should delete and burry before someone sees it.

Sadly it doesn't seem like it will. Its been up for almost a week.

 

[donsteppedoutside]

+/- is a garbage stat. Ovechkin produces a ton on the powerplay which further skews that. As much as I love Gallagher, and his ability to be a pest while also being offensively strong, this is the definition of a no-brainer, and I don't get why anyone could argue otherwise. Gimme some Ovie.

 

[WhiskeySeven*]

Why is this thread still going? I really don't get it.

 

[Brainiac]

Why is this thread still going? I really don't get it.

It is still going because drunktards like us are still replying!

 

[Rumpy]

As Bruins fan I'd rather you have Ovechkin. He's so overrated and only plays 1 end of the ice takes up to much cap space and is a team cancer.

Gallagher on the other hand is heart and soul and exactly like Marchand. He is going to drive the Bruins and me nuts next round if they make it.

 

[hockeyfan2k11]

As Bruins fan I'd rather you have Ovechkin. He's so overrated and only plays 1 end of the ice takes up to much cap space and is a team cancer.

Gallagher on the other hand is heart and soul and exactly like Marchand. He is going to drive the Bruins and me nuts next round if they make it.

If this Habs roster included ovechkin you'd be very worried. This whjolr team cancer stuff is such crap. If only ovie were Canadian. He'd get all the accolades that Canadian superstars get.

 

[Brainiac]

As Bruins fan I'd rather you have Ovechkin. He's so overrated and only plays 1 end of the ice takes up to much cap space and is a team cancer.

Gallagher on the other hand is heart and soul and exactly like Marchand. He is going to drive the Bruins and me nuts next round if they make it.

Glad to see the problem is not only with our fanbase! Thank you dear sir!

 

[68*]

Here's what I would do if Washington's GM was stupid enough to do that trade:

- Trade Gally for Ovechkin
- Trade Ovechkin for a nice package of team players

 

[MasterDecoy]

Here's what I would do if Washington's GM was stupid enough to do that trade:

- Trade Gally for Ovechkin
- Trade Ovechkin for a nice package of team players

Maybe we could even get Gallagher for him!

 

[LastChancePrice]

you know, after reflecting on it for some time, I change my mind and now sit firmly in the "NO" side of things...

Why?

- Cap implication.
Ovechkin is a 9.5M$ cap hit for the next 7 seasons. That is a huge chunk of space at a time where we have Price, Subban who will both be north of 6M$, and in that time frame all of our key players will need new deals.

- age/future production
Yes, Ovechkin has been one of the dominant players in the league the last decade (9 seasons), but he is notorious for his questionable offseason workout/conditioning and lifestyle focus... those types of things catch up to players quickly once they hit 30... just look at a guy like Heatley. Forget about Ovechkin being "worth" the 9.5M$ cap hit (1/7-1/8 of current cap), he might end up struggling to be a viable top-6 guy in the last few years of the deal unless he has a career/maturity turnaround.

- KHL issue.
yes, they have a MOU right now (and as if the KHL wouldn't break it in a heart beat to bring home the golden child)... but will that last through the 7 year deal? What happens if the league pulls out of the next olympics? What happens if he struggles and gets tired of the wrath of the montreal media/fan base? "escaping" to Russia will always be an option

- locker room/team impact
people complain to no end about Subban's apparent "selfishness"... if it isn't a race thing, can you imagine the backlash against ovie? he's one of the most selfish players in the league... making the biggest salary... how does that play in the room & with the culture the team is trying to build? i would argue that swapping a guy like gallagher for a guy like ovie would completely undermine the work MB has tried to do to build a new culture. Counter productive in that sense.

- Sheer cost
Ovechkin gets 10million/season for the next 7 years... yes, he'd bring in merchandising revenue and brand awareness in a large market... but he's also a 70million dollar cost. How does that impact the ownerships spending in other areas of the franchise?

and finally... Gallagher himself.

- Heart and soul player.
Leads by example in an impressive fashion. Kind of player/person that will give the franchise everything he has for the duration of his career

- Clutch player
just look at his career playoff numbers across leagues. The guy is a pure gamer... much like a Claude Lemieux. By the time his career is done, i bet he'll be remembered as one of those playoff warriors that every team wants/wishes they had.

- Talent
Gally will never be Ovechkin... fine. But at 21, he's already a .5 ppg player (better in the playoffs), he's got it in him, talent-wise, to get close to a ppg production level once he fully matures physically & gains that extra experience. You don't need an ovechkin quality player to win, but you do need players who play the game the way Gally does AND who have the talent to match it.

- culture identity
Gallagher is exactly what the team wants to be known for. His value in that sense goes well beyond the stat line.


All in all, as crazy as it will seem to the stat obsessed, in the cap realities of the NHL, it's a definite no on my end.

Yop. Sometimes, you have to addition the plus and minus to realize it could be not a good move to do. Comparing him to Claude Lemieux atm is not the exactly right comparison, but hes someone who really remind us all a bit of him. More disciplined player than Lemieux was. I will be extremely happy the day i see Gallagher hit 60+ points and deliver what he does. People sometimes only see points as the major argument to evaluate a player. Sure, we are talking about Ovechkin now, a really big points machine. But the point of the thread here is would you trade Gallagher for him? For me its a no from the beginning. IF Ovechkin was propose to my team for some other player, for sure i would listen, even knowing it could be a bit of a risky move, but having to give up Gallagher??? Never.

 

[LastChancePrice]

So I take it you wouldn't want Crosby or any other players with large cap hits? C'mon. Ovechkin is a legit 50 goal scorer. 422 goals at 28. You make room for him.

Crosby is a really different story than Ovechkin. But its not the subject of the thread.EVERYBODY want Crosby. But just look at the result of the thread. Nearly 20% do no want to give up Gallagher for Ovi. It speak for itself.

 

[Whitesnake]

I ABSOLUTELY would do it. Only to see Ovechkin's face when Therrien says "we are a grinding team".

 

[dreamingofdrouin*]

As Bruins fan I'd rather you have Ovechkin. He's so overrated and only plays 1 end of the ice takes up to much cap space and is a team cancer.

Gallagher on the other hand is heart and soul and exactly like Marchand. He is going to drive the Bruins and me nuts next round if they make it.

Minus marchands other "intangibles"

 

[LastChancePrice]

As Bruins fan I'd rather you have Ovechkin. He's so overrated and only plays 1 end of the ice takes up to much cap space and is a team cancer.

Gallagher on the other hand is heart and soul and exactly like Marchand. He is going to drive the Bruins and me nuts next round if they make it.

Hey Bruins fan, would you trade Marchand for Ovi?

 

[Allah Veuglette]

I think we had our share of heartless russian player, so no.

 

[Rumpy]

Hey Bruins fan, would you trade Marchand for Ovi?

No cause it means we'd have to get rid if one of Lucic Bergeron and Krecji to make him fit. They would become a team that doesn't play defense relies on the refs to win them games (power plays) and would be golfing in April every year...

 

[AcadiaAxeMan]

Why trade for a player that is going to F/O back to the KHL at the expense of your team's heart and soul? Gallagher SHOULD be a constant reminder to players like Leblanc, Bourque what it takes to play in the NHL without the skills of say an Ovechkin. Few players have Ovechkin's skill, so 95%+ forwards need to dig deep and play the game on many intangible talents NOT measured by goals!

 

[MasterDecoy]

Voted for Gallagher *****es

 

[HabsRockBruinsChoke]

Washington is getting a new GM soon and who knows if he will want to use Ovechkin's trade value to get a lot more smaller pieces in return. The guy has 3 harts, and obviously the best goal scorer in the league.

So I think it could be very legitimate if we trade for Ovechkin to fix our low GF issue that has been a problem for few years. Its just going to cost MTL a little. FYI, i obviously prefer signing Vanek over trading for Ovechkin, so this is just "IF" Vanek doesn't sign here.

Heres a proposal, Washington needs improvement on pretty much all areas except their goaltending, therefore:

To MTL:

Ovechkin

To Washington

2014 1st round pick
Galchenyuk
Bourque
Beaulieu

 

[Kriss E]

well... you could have said the same thing about a Heatey proposal in 2009-10... coming off of a 39 goal/82 point season... when he, like ovechkin now, was 28.
Problem is that Heatley, like Ovechkin, was not a very diligent guy with his training and conditioning, and as he lost his physical edge, his game plummeted.

in the 5 years since, 26 is the most he's scored, 12 is what he put up this year, and his next contract is likely to be of the 1 year, 1-1.5 variety given his actual play level.

This despite the fact that he's only 33, and one of the most prolific scorers of the past 10 years.

Odds of Ovechkin's next 5 seasons to be of the 9.5M$ quality are slim at best. A smart team doesn't pay/trade for what a guy HAS done, they focus on what they WILL do.

Ovechkin's play is not trending in the right direction to be worth his cost.

So it happened with Heatley, that means it has to happen with Ovi too?
In 5years, his 9.5M cap hit won't be a league max anymore. Really, it's pretty irrelevant. The guy just scored 51 goals, I don't think he'll be scoring 12 in 3 years.

what's the point of thinking about it outside of the cap ramifications? Gallagher is one more year at 685k wow and then starts his RFA years... he'll get a big raise, but unless he has a 50-goal year next season, it won't be in the 5M$+ range.

Ovechking would cost Gallagher + 5-7M$/year in cap space... which equates to another quality player or the ability to retain key UFA's.

can't ignore that since we don't have the "turn salary cap off" option in the real world.

Well, because that was the poll question.

I don't think Ovechkin's overall impact on the team, assuming the exact same roster minus gallagher, is as big as you suggest. Yes, he's a pure goal scorer, but he forcibly takes over a chunk of PP time (away from either MaxPac or Vanek) and i don't buy that his overall ES impact (factoring in the massive defensive warts, which then gives us at least 2 lines with average/worse defensive acumen) turns us into a contender.

they became a powerhouse with the emergence of Ovechkin/Backstrom/Green, but they lacked elements, and their attempts to work around that core haven't been successful. You need a strong team defensive identity to win in the playoffs... gets proven over and over again. Bruins, Blackhawks, Kings, Pens, Wings... all of the recent cup winners have key players who are among the top 2-way players in the league (Bergeron, Toews, Richards, Staal, Datsyuk).

Ovechkin/MaxPac/Vanek as your star forward group leaves a lot to be desired in that regard.

You don't think adding a 50 goal scorer would contribute much??
It's a swap, Galla for Ovi, on our current roster. We have a much better support cast than Washington had, but they also messed up. They didn't have to change their system.

nor would i on that element alone... but again, putting our head in the sand and ignoring that glaring reality does no good either.

I think it's irrelevant and out of your control. If the guy is unhappy and wants to go back home, I can't blame him. But I'm not going to pass up on the opportunity of landing a 50 goal scorer because he might go to the KHL although there's zero indication that he wants to do that.

don't make baseless assumptions. I never indicated anything about his heritage. I don't buy the "russians = selfish" crap either.

Ovechkin, on the other hand, has repeatedly shown a pathetic display of effort for his team/teammates.
There's a big difference between not being very good defensively, and making no effort at all. In a team sport like hockey, a guy who doesn't try on defense because he thinks he needs to save himself for offense is selfish... especially when said player is leading the league in goal scoring on a non-playoff team. Caps, with Ovie trying on defense, are a better team...

Just because a guy has insane talent, doesn't stop him from being selfish.

Ovechkin had no problem playing a little more conservative and defensively under Hunter. He even was benched and played less with no complaint.
I think this is overblown.

in a market like washington, having a star like ovechkin = sales that otherwise wouldn't happen (tickets, merchandising,advertising).

in a market like montreal, we don't need an Ovechkin to amp up the local revenue... the spike would be minimal after the initial rush. The benefit would be almost entirely in the additional revenue outside of market... which would be significant... but would it be 70M$ significant?

Sure, we don't need an Ovechkin for revenue, but I'm pretty sure it would be a profitable investment.
Again, if the smaller markets would lose money from these deals, then they wouldn't make them. We spend to the cap anyways, so it's not like we'd be spending more money than usual.

no one said adding Ovechkin would make us crumble. I just feel, for the reasons outlined, that our odds of building a consistent contender over the next 5-7 years would be easier done with Gallagher + the large chunk of cap space (~9M in year 1, 5-7M$ per year in next 6-7 seasons) + not dealing with the locker room/coaching adjustments needed to fit the team to Ovechkin's game... because you don't add a 9.5M$ player with Ovechkin's particular personality/talents, and then expect him to "fit" into a system/role he's not comfortable with.

Sure, if adding Ovi meant losing other players. But like I said, no matter how unrealistic, that wasn't the question. If it was, results of the poll would be different.

As for the system, I don't see why you need to change anything. Clearly you're not going to ask Ovechkin to dump the puck in. Also, can you imagine the joy DD's line would have if we had Ovechkin on another line getting most of the attention?? It would be very difficult to shut our offense down.

Ovechkin would be well supported here. He wouldn't be coming in with the heavy load of carrying a whole team, being the captain, and having everything built around him.
We have some good leadership here, I think he would thrive back to his pure dominant self. MaxPac-Vanek-Ovi, that is such a powerful three. They can all be 40 goal scorers. When is the last time you saw a team with 3 players scoring 40 goals?
Ya, I think we'd be just fine with Ovi over Gallagher (assuming the rest of the line up stays the same, as the thread question suggested).

 

[LastChancePrice]

Washington is getting a new GM soon and who knows if he will want to use Ovechkin's trade value to get a lot more smaller pieces in return. The guy has 3 harts, and obviously the best goal scorer in the league.

So I think it could be very legitimate if we trade for Ovechkin to fix our low GF issue that has been a problem for few years. Its just going to cost MTL a little. FYI, i obviously prefer signing Vanek over trading for Ovechkin, so this is just "IF" Vanek doesn't sign here.

Heres a proposal, Washington needs improvement on pretty much all areas except their goaltending, therefore:

To MTL:

Ovechkin

To Washington

2014 1st round pick
Galchenyuk
Bourque
Beaulieu

Washington need stability in goaltending. As of your proposal, i dont feel confortable giving up yet on Galchenyuk for a player who give up offen already.But im not MB, he might have different opinion about Ovi and would jump on that deal.

Im telling you people, unless Washington manage to trade Ovi to the Islanders, you might be surprise of his value. Lots of people have in their mind it will empty a team like when the Lindros trade happen, but it wont.

 

[LastChancePrice]

So it happened with Heatley, that means it has to happen with Ovi too?
In 5years, his 9.5M cap hit won't be a league max anymore. Really, it's pretty irrelevant. The guy just scored 51 goals, I don't think he'll be scoring 12 in 3 years.



Well, because that was the poll question.



You don't think adding a 50 goal scorer would contribute much??
It's a swap, Galla for Ovi, on our current roster. We have a much better support cast than Washington had, but they also messed up. They didn't have to change their system.


I think it's irrelevant and out of your control. If the guy is unhappy and wants to go back home, I can't blame him. But I'm not going to pass up on the opportunity of landing a 50 goal scorer because he might go to the KHL although there's zero indication that he wants to do that.



Ovechkin had no problem playing a little more conservative and defensively under Hunter. He even was benched and played less with no complaint.
I think this is overblown.

Sure, we don't need an Ovechkin for revenue, but I'm pretty sure it would be a profitable investment.
Again, if the smaller markets would lose money from these deals, then they wouldn't make them. We spend to the cap anyways, so it's not like we'd be spending more money than usual.


Sure, if adding Ovi meant losing other players. But like I said, no matter how unrealistic, that wasn't the question. If it was, results of the poll would be different.

As for the system, I don't see why you need to change anything. Clearly you're not going to ask Ovechkin to dump the puck in. Also, can you imagine the joy DD's line would have if we had Ovechkin on another line getting most of the attention?? It would be very difficult to shut our offense down.

Ovechkin would be well supported here. He wouldn't be coming in with the heavy load of carrying a whole team, being the captain, and having everything built around him.
We have some good leadership here, I think he would thrive back to his pure dominant self. MaxPac-Vanek-Ovi, that is such a powerful three. They can all be 40 goal scorers. When is the last time you saw a team with 3 players scoring 40 goals?
Ya, I think we'd be just fine with Ovi over Gallagher (assuming the rest of the line up stays the same, as the thread question suggested).

I want you to take a closer look of the top scorers of the league.
http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.htm?fetchKey=20142ALLSASALL&sort=goals&viewName=summary

You can browse page 1,2,3, and look all the players who are in the minus . With rare expection, all these players are not in the playoff atm. And just look a bit behind Ovechkin, we got our own 40+ probable goal scorer in Pacioretty. Ovechkin would be mroe valueable if he would have score maybe 10 less and contribute more defensivly. I would jump on a guy like Corey Perry. Look just for fun Iginla, Bergeron with the Bruins. They net 30, and they are + 30!!! You think Ovechkin worth more than these players just because he can just net some more?? Offence doesnt win you all. Yes, its good for the show, but in the end, if your not at least responsible defensivly, well i dont think your worth it.

 

[Kriss E]

I want you to take a closer look of the top scorers of the league.
http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.htm?fetchKey=20142ALLSASALL&sort=goals&viewName=summary

You can browse page 1,2,3, and look all the players who are in the minus . With rare expection, all these players are not in the playoff atm. And just look a bit behind Ovechkin, we got our own 40+ probable goal scorer in Pacioretty. Ovechkin would be mroe valueable if he would have score maybe 10 less and contribute more defensivly. I would jump on a guy like Corey Perry. Look just for fun Iginla, Bergeron with the Bruins. They net 30, and they are + 30!!! You think Ovechkin worth more than these players just because he can just net some more?? Offence doesnt win you all. Yes, its good for the show, but in the end, if your not at least responsible defensivly, well i dont think your worth it.

I'd be worried if Ovechkin was a depth or role player. He isn't. He gets the big bucks because he's the best goal scorer in the league.
Btw, he's a career +47. That is including his -35 season. Before the season started he had a better ratio than Sharp, better than Perry, and a bunch of players you claim are more defensively responsible. So much is made of his -35, it's pretty ridiculous. Guy had a bad year regarding that, so did Backstrom. They will bounce back.

Bergeron is one of the best two way player in the league, both him and Iginla play for the best team in the NHL. When Washington was at the top of the NHL, Ovechkin finished the year at +45, so please spare the +/- crap.