Gee let me think, would I trade a nickle for a loonie? Hmmm.....I donno man, thats sounds pretty risky...
What a stupid thread.
What a stupid thread.
Proposal: Gallagher for Ovechkin, would you do it?
- Thread starter LastChancePrice
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- Jun 24, 2012
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Is there any logical reason for this thread being still up? Are the mods having some sort of weird social experiment?
Mike Mike Caron
Registered User
- Aug 29, 2010
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you know, after reflecting on it for some time, I change my mind and now sit firmly in the "NO" side of things...
Why?
- Cap implication.
Ovechkin is a 9.5M$ cap hit for the next 7 seasons. That is a huge chunk of space at a time where we have Price, Subban who will both be north of 6M$, and in that time frame all of our key players will need new deals.
- age/future production
Yes, Ovechkin has been one of the dominant players in the league the last decade (9 seasons), but he is notorious for his questionable offseason workout/conditioning and lifestyle focus... those types of things catch up to players quickly once they hit 30... just look at a guy like Heatley. Forget about Ovechkin being "worth" the 9.5M$ cap hit (1/7-1/8 of current cap), he might end up struggling to be a viable top-6 guy in the last few years of the deal unless he has a career/maturity turnaround.
- KHL issue.
yes, they have a MOU right now (and as if the KHL wouldn't break it in a heart beat to bring home the golden child)... but will that last through the 7 year deal? What happens if the league pulls out of the next olympics? What happens if he struggles and gets tired of the wrath of the montreal media/fan base? "escaping" to Russia will always be an option
- locker room/team impact
people complain to no end about Subban's apparent "selfishness"... if it isn't a race thing, can you imagine the backlash against ovie? he's one of the most selfish players in the league... making the biggest salary... how does that play in the room & with the culture the team is trying to build? i would argue that swapping a guy like gallagher for a guy like ovie would completely undermine the work MB has tried to do to build a new culture. Counter productive in that sense.
- Sheer cost
Ovechkin gets 10million/season for the next 7 years... yes, he'd bring in merchandising revenue and brand awareness in a large market... but he's also a 70million dollar cost. How does that impact the ownerships spending in other areas of the franchise?
and finally... Gallagher himself.
- Heart and soul player.
Leads by example in an impressive fashion. Kind of player/person that will give the franchise everything he has for the duration of his career
- Clutch player
just look at his career playoff numbers across leagues. The guy is a pure gamer... much like a Claude Lemieux. By the time his career is done, i bet he'll be remembered as one of those playoff warriors that every team wants/wishes they had.
- Talent
Gally will never be Ovechkin... fine. But at 21, he's already a .5 ppg player (better in the playoffs), he's got it in him, talent-wise, to get close to a ppg production level once he fully matures physically & gains that extra experience. You don't need an ovechkin quality player to win, but you do need players who play the game the way Gally does AND who have the talent to match it.
- culture identity
Gallagher is exactly what the team wants to be known for. His value in that sense goes well beyond the stat line.
All in all, as crazy as it will seem to the stat obsessed, in the cap realities of the NHL, it's a definite no on my end.
Why?
- Cap implication.
Ovechkin is a 9.5M$ cap hit for the next 7 seasons. That is a huge chunk of space at a time where we have Price, Subban who will both be north of 6M$, and in that time frame all of our key players will need new deals.
- age/future production
Yes, Ovechkin has been one of the dominant players in the league the last decade (9 seasons), but he is notorious for his questionable offseason workout/conditioning and lifestyle focus... those types of things catch up to players quickly once they hit 30... just look at a guy like Heatley. Forget about Ovechkin being "worth" the 9.5M$ cap hit (1/7-1/8 of current cap), he might end up struggling to be a viable top-6 guy in the last few years of the deal unless he has a career/maturity turnaround.
- KHL issue.
yes, they have a MOU right now (and as if the KHL wouldn't break it in a heart beat to bring home the golden child)... but will that last through the 7 year deal? What happens if the league pulls out of the next olympics? What happens if he struggles and gets tired of the wrath of the montreal media/fan base? "escaping" to Russia will always be an option
- locker room/team impact
people complain to no end about Subban's apparent "selfishness"... if it isn't a race thing, can you imagine the backlash against ovie? he's one of the most selfish players in the league... making the biggest salary... how does that play in the room & with the culture the team is trying to build? i would argue that swapping a guy like gallagher for a guy like ovie would completely undermine the work MB has tried to do to build a new culture. Counter productive in that sense.
- Sheer cost
Ovechkin gets 10million/season for the next 7 years... yes, he'd bring in merchandising revenue and brand awareness in a large market... but he's also a 70million dollar cost. How does that impact the ownerships spending in other areas of the franchise?
and finally... Gallagher himself.
- Heart and soul player.
Leads by example in an impressive fashion. Kind of player/person that will give the franchise everything he has for the duration of his career
- Clutch player
just look at his career playoff numbers across leagues. The guy is a pure gamer... much like a Claude Lemieux. By the time his career is done, i bet he'll be remembered as one of those playoff warriors that every team wants/wishes they had.
- Talent
Gally will never be Ovechkin... fine. But at 21, he's already a .5 ppg player (better in the playoffs), he's got it in him, talent-wise, to get close to a ppg production level once he fully matures physically & gains that extra experience. You don't need an ovechkin quality player to win, but you do need players who play the game the way Gally does AND who have the talent to match it.
- culture identity
Gallagher is exactly what the team wants to be known for. His value in that sense goes well beyond the stat line.
All in all, as crazy as it will seem to the stat obsessed, in the cap realities of the NHL, it's a definite no on my end.
What will be Gallagher's contract like 3 yrs from now? 4-5M$ a year? Ovi has 814pts in 679 games and 61pts in 58 PO games. His production can't be denied and I'm convinced that a change of scenery would mean a lot for how he'd handle himself on the ice especially with the canadiens.
Now trading Gallagher for Ovi is pure fantasy and theres no chance it can happen. Trading for Ovi means:
Gallagher + Tinordi + Bourque + 1st + 2nd
and I'm being a little cheap.
Ovechkin is a locker room cancer who sulks and quits on his team/coach when he doesn't get his way. Prodigious talent to be sure, but hockey is a team sport and guys like Gallagher aren't afraid to pay the price to win championships. I'll keep Gallagher, thanks.
First, that. WTH?
Secondly, I think some of you guys don't get it. The question is: George McPhee calls you and offers Ovechkin for Gallagher, straight up. You say yes or no?
Forget about the league blocking the trade because it's ridiculous, forget about everything else. The deal is Ovechkin for Gallagher, 1 on 1. Yes, a fantasy scenario.
Personnally, there's no way I turn down that offer. I then try to make things work with Ovi in my lineup. If it gets really nowhere after 2 or 3 years, I flip Ovi for a package much better than anything Gallagher could ever fetch.
_vivelequebec_
Registered User
You do understand that it's not ''Who's better between Gallagher and Ovechkin'' right?
EDIT : And of course Washington would make fun of us with this proposal. I see it as the exact opposite of a win-win situation, Montréal and Washington would both lose (the Caps more than us).
this is the part I think many people are missing...
objective of the franchise isn't to get the best player possible, it's to build a culture of winning and contend for the longest possible window.
with all the factors on the table, i think building a winner from where our franchise is right now is more effectively done with Gallagher in the lineup than it is with Ovechkin.
OK, so both teams would lose the trade?
But one team loses more than the other? I guess 20% of us around here are crazy delusional homers. Eh. Not that bad.
I understand your points, but I still think someone has to be crazy not to do a heads up trade for Ovie vs Galla. I mean seriously, we're talking about the best goal scorer in the NHL (or arguably top 2 if you think Stamkos is #1, which is no knock).
1- Cap implication is key. However, the question didn't really imply it. I responded with the assumption that the team would stay the same but with Ovi over Galla. Otherwise it should have been framed differently as Gallagher vs Ovi is completely different than Ovi vs Gallagher minus Markov-Gionta-Vanek. If that's what the question was about you'd be a completely different poll result.
2- Ovi is 28. Even if he just has 5 years left, I'd gladly take him on because he'd seriously boost us straight to solid contenders. As for his off season ''laziness'', I don't put much weight on this. It could be true, it could be that Washington was a zoo. But I don't think anybody can really question his desire. I don't think selfish careless players score 50 goals and celebrate like he does.
Washington gave him the key to city for crying out loud. But they really messed up with their team identity too. They were a serious powerhouse and they through it all away thinking they needed to be smarter defensively. It back fired big time.
3- Again, I think too much is made out of the KHL possibility. I would never pass up on the opportunity of getting a player of Ovechkin's stature just because of that. Never.
4- How is he selfish? Oh right, typical russian crap that we hear about 99% of the Russians. Man, they must be the most talented players in the world if they can all play in the NHL while being selfish. Man, you just made me think of what having Ovi and PK on the same team would be like, and God I wish we could have both.
Ovi-Galy (if he pans out) -MaxPac-PK? We could be the powerhouse Washington was except with a much better support cast.
5- I have no idea how much Ovechkin would bring in. But if other teams have no issues dishing out some much cash to certain players while still spending to the cap, then I have no doubt we could as well in arguably the best hockey market.
Gallagher brings a lot of good, and I think every winning team needs guys like him. But I don't think our team would crumble down if we replaced him with Ovi. On the contrary, I think it would put us at the top of the East, even over Boston.
_vivelequebec_
Registered User
OK, so both teams would lose the trade?
I guess 20% of us around here are crazy delusional homers. Eh. Not that bad.
Don't know if you noticed but there's more than 2 teams in the league, so yeah both of us could ending up losing.
You trade a small top 6 winger with some offensive upside for a big, elite goal scoring winger (top 10 player in the league, at the very least). And you consider that a loss?
That's it, I'm out of here.
No offense, but too much homerism in here. Maybe if we stop answering the insanity, the thread will die by itself!
Smokey Thompson
Registered User
Habs Icing
Formerly Onice
I would make the trade in a heartbeat and then turn around and trade him for the pot of gold.
Talent wise Ovie dwarfs Gallagher. That's why I would make the trade. the value player for player is off the chart.
But Ovies don't win Stanley Cups or Olympic medals so that's why i would trade him for 3 or 4 Gallaghers. You win with the Gallaghers of the world.
Talent wise Ovie dwarfs Gallagher. That's why I would make the trade. the value player for player is off the chart.
But Ovies don't win Stanley Cups or Olympic medals so that's why i would trade him for 3 or 4 Gallaghers. You win with the Gallaghers of the world.
This thread started badly. What are we talking about here?
- the value of the players?
- the possibility of having Ovechkin right now in the line up instead of Gallagher?
- an hypothetical (and unrealistic) trade this summer?
The 2 first interpretations are an easy yes for Ovechkin.
Than, if we take in acount contracts, it becomes harder. For exemple, if you get Ovechkin, you forget Vanek. So it becomes a Vanek+Gallagher vs Ovechkin debate... but anyway, this isn't realistic, so why should we even go there?
- the value of the players?
- the possibility of having Ovechkin right now in the line up instead of Gallagher?
- an hypothetical (and unrealistic) trade this summer?
The 2 first interpretations are an easy yes for Ovechkin.
Than, if we take in acount contracts, it becomes harder. For exemple, if you get Ovechkin, you forget Vanek. So it becomes a Vanek+Gallagher vs Ovechkin debate... but anyway, this isn't realistic, so why should we even go there?
I understand your points, but I still think someone has to be crazy not to do a heads up trade for Ovie vs Galla. I mean seriously, we're talking about the best goal scorer in the NHL (or arguably top 2 if you think Stamkos is #1, which is no knock).
well... you could have said the same thing about a Heatey proposal in 2009-10... coming off of a 39 goal/82 point season... when he, like ovechkin now, was 28.
Problem is that Heatley, like Ovechkin, was not a very diligent guy with his training and conditioning, and as he lost his physical edge, his game plummeted.
in the 5 years since, 26 is the most he's scored, 12 is what he put up this year, and his next contract is likely to be of the 1 year, 1-1.5 variety given his actual play level.
This despite the fact that he's only 33, and one of the most prolific scorers of the past 10 years.
Odds of Ovechkin's next 5 seasons to be of the 9.5M$ quality are slim at best. A smart team doesn't pay/trade for what a guy HAS done, they focus on what they WILL do.
Ovechkin's play is not trending in the right direction to be worth his cost.
what's the point of thinking about it outside of the cap ramifications? Gallagher is one more year at 685kwow
Ovechking would cost Gallagher + 5-7M$/year in cap space... which equates to another quality player or the ability to retain key UFA's.
can't ignore that since we don't have the "turn salary cap off" option in the real world.
I don't think Ovechkin's overall impact on the team, assuming the exact same roster minus gallagher, is as big as you suggest. Yes, he's a pure goal scorer, but he forcibly takes over a chunk of PP time (away from either MaxPac or Vanek) and i don't buy that his overall ES impact (factoring in the massive defensive warts, which then gives us at least 2 lines with average/worse defensive acumen) turns us into a contender.
they became a powerhouse with the emergence of Ovechkin/Backstrom/Green, but they lacked elements, and their attempts to work around that core haven't been successful. You need a strong team defensive identity to win in the playoffs... gets proven over and over again. Bruins, Blackhawks, Kings, Pens, Wings... all of the recent cup winners have key players who are among the top 2-way players in the league (Bergeron, Toews, Richards, Staal, Datsyuk).
Ovechkin/MaxPac/Vanek as your star forward group leaves a lot to be desired in that regard.
nor would i on that element alone... but again, putting our head in the sand and ignoring that glaring reality does no good either.
don't make baseless assumptions. I never indicated anything about his heritage. I don't buy the "russians = selfish" crap either.
Ovechkin, on the other hand, has repeatedly shown a pathetic display of effort for his team/teammates.
There's a big difference between not being very good defensively, and making no effort at all. In a team sport like hockey, a guy who doesn't try on defense because he thinks he needs to save himself for offense is selfish... especially when said player is leading the league in goal scoring on a non-playoff team. Caps, with Ovie trying on defense, are a better team...
Just because a guy has insane talent, doesn't stop him from being selfish.
in a market like washington, having a star like ovechkin = sales that otherwise wouldn't happen (tickets, merchandising,advertising).
in a market like montreal, we don't need an Ovechkin to amp up the local revenue... the spike would be minimal after the initial rush. The benefit would be almost entirely in the additional revenue outside of market... which would be significant... but would it be 70M$ significant?
no one said adding Ovechkin would make us crumble. I just feel, for the reasons outlined, that our odds of building a consistent contender over the next 5-7 years would be easier done with Gallagher + the large chunk of cap space (~9M in year 1, 5-7M$ per year in next 6-7 seasons) + not dealing with the locker room/coaching adjustments needed to fit the team to Ovechkin's game... because you don't add a 9.5M$ player with Ovechkin's particular personality/talents, and then expect him to "fit" into a system/role he's not comfortable with.
of course, why would washington trade him to us for Gallagher if there was this huge demand/pot of gold out there for the taking?
pepperMonkey
Registered User
How is it harder? If you can get Ovechkin for Gally you do it regardless of the contracts involved.
If you really can't keep Ovechkin's contract, and you "won't" drop any of our players to fit him in, then you trade him for prospects and 1st round draft picks.
Seriously, the fact is you can trade Ov for multiple Gallys. Heck, you can trade him for a Vanek + multiple Gallys.
I hate to say this but there is only one Ov but there are quite a few more Gally's out there. Having him to trade is the same as getting the #1 lottery draft pick for multiple years.
This is just one mind boggling thread...does not compute.
Dr_Hook
Registered User
- Jun 4, 2006
- 1,308
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Happy to read some other posters joining me on the right side of this ! Welcome in the 18%! 
2 things need to be clarified so that evrybody's points can be read from the same premises :
a) Of course, contracts should be taken into account ; this isn't fantasyland. The question asked which one you prefer to have, well they come with the deal they have, it's just part of the reality.
b) I answered the question litterally : which one do you think brings more to the team (all factors being considered). Not who has more value on the trade market. Of course, Ovie has more ! And if you tell me "let's make the deal and then flip Ovie elsewhere for a king's ransom" Well yeah, sure. But that wasn't the question. Do I think Ovie would be a good fit for us right now ? My answer is no, I don't want him here.
2 things need to be clarified so that evrybody's points can be read from the same premises :
a) Of course, contracts should be taken into account ; this isn't fantasyland. The question asked which one you prefer to have, well they come with the deal they have, it's just part of the reality.
b) I answered the question litterally : which one do you think brings more to the team (all factors being considered). Not who has more value on the trade market. Of course, Ovie has more ! And if you tell me "let's make the deal and then flip Ovie elsewhere for a king's ransom" Well yeah, sure. But that wasn't the question. Do I think Ovie would be a good fit for us right now ? My answer is no, I don't want him here.
Sun God Nika
Palestine <3.
- Apr 22, 2013
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I just saw this as i was lurking the boards, this is something you should delete and burry before someone sees it.
The question is which one brings more to the team. Ovechkin brings more to the team. Either from his elite goal scoring ability, or from his trade value. The 18% who voted against this are homers, period.
A better question would be: which player would you be willing to have on your team for the next 8 years: Ovechkin or Gallagher? No trades allowed, you pick a player and keep him for 8 years. Cap hit is a consideration, of course.
The question in the OP just doesn't make sense.
Habs Icing
Formerly Onice
I know he is not of the same value but we got Vanek for less and Snow paid more for him earlier in the season than he got from us. 1 quick Example that crazy things may happen.
i never said my scenario could happen but then who really thinks the Caps will accept Gallagher for Ovie. The question was a hypothetical one with dreams of unicorns and leprechauns so I just ran with it.
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