Galchenyuk - The 'Can the Habs Develop a #1 Center?' Edition

[RealityBytes]

It might be the opposite.

Maybe Bergevin wants a six-year contract now that they have run Galchenyuk's value into the ground by playing him on wing, and Galchenyuk wants a two-year contract to prove himself and get a raise.

I am worried about another Seguin situation happening.

Obviously MB does not want to offer Galchenyuk a long term (six year) contract at the price Galchenyuk wants, and any long term contract proposed by Galchenyuk for what he wants will not be accepted by MB. A long term contract that would satisfy both parties is most likely out of the bargaining picture.

As such, a short term contract is all that is left to negotiate ... and will have one or both sides grumbling at the end.

 

[Monctonscout]

Galchenyuk is out of his mind if he thinks he was better than Plekanec or Pacioretty last year, those are he two guys getting big minutes up front. He isn't at their level at this point.

I don't see where 2nd le minutes for a 20 year old is anything other than reasonable

Going against Larionov is not a very smart move.

 

[417]

He offered 4.1M to Emelin and 4.5M to Patches. Patches got 2 years more, but he was also much younger when signing.

Think about it... Our GM thinks that Emelin is worth 4.1M and Patches 4.5M. If that's not lowballing Patches, I don't know what to say.
People always praise the GM for a move like that (Patches contract) but I don't understand why. If you want to praise someone, praise Patches, who took one for the team on that contract.

Bottom line is, when it comes to defense, depth and character, Bergevin is very generous. When it comes to goal scoring and skill... not so much.

I'm having trouble wrapping my head around this one...Emelin and Pacioretty signed their extensions under completely different circumstances.

You're comparing a contract signed by a player (Emelin) who was about to hit free agency the following season

To a player who was still a restricted free agent (Pacioretty)?

You realized that both parties negotiated this deal together right? You qualifying this wonderful contract as a low-ball is your interpretation of those negotiations because you have a narrative to fill, as long as you know it's not necessarily reality. What a GM thinks about a player (Emelin vs. Pacioretty) is irrelevant, a player's contractual status is all that matters.

You don't deal with a pending UFA, the same way you would an RFA...Bergevin was able to get Pacioretty signed to that deal because Pacioretty had very little leverage and player rights, that's how the CBA is built. Restricted Free Agent contracts are designed the way they are to protect teams, because once players reach their autonomy (aka free agency), the player has most of the leverage.

I'll agree with you on one thing, if Emelin is worth 4.1M (which btw, I think is fair value), then Pacioretty should be worth twice that amount. But yet, our GM was able to have him signed for 4.25M, and this is supposed to be a bad thing????

This place is so weird...we blast the GM for overpaying players, now were blasting the GM for getting his star forward locked up at under market value.

Bizarro world

 

[SirClintonPortis]

Obviously MB does not want to offer Galchenyuk a long term (six year) contract at the price Galchenyuk wants, and any long term contract proposed by Galchenyuk for what he wants will not be accepted by MB. A long term contract that would satisfy both parties is most likely out of the bargaining picture.

As such, a short term contract is all that is left to negotiate ... and will have one or both sides grumbling at the end.

Apparently, Bergevin wants to make Galchenyuk "hungry " and reap the benefits of the player producing more during contract years, which does make sense. But while that probably will happen, I doubt Galchenyuk will have any shred of loyalty left once UFA hits and will allow his services to go to the one who will pay him the most. This is especially likely if DD is extended.

 

[417]

Obviously MB does not want to offer Galchenyuk a long term (six year) contract at the price Galchenyuk wants, and any long term contract proposed by Galchenyuk for what he wants will not be accepted by MB. A long term contract that would satisfy both parties is most likely out of the bargaining picture.

As such, a short term contract is all that is left to negotiate ... and will have one or both sides grumbling at the end.

I'm sure the Habs would be thrilled to signed Galchenyuk to a long term (6 years) contract. They have the ideal template to follow in considered they just signed Gallagher to a 6yr 22.5M deal (3.75M AAV), but obviously, that's not a deal that's very appealing to Galchenyuk (or rather, it shouldn't).

Which pretty much guarantees that they go short term for 1 or 2 years...the issue then becomes, do you pay Galchenyuk as much as you're paying Gallagher (3.75M) short-term for just 2 years?

I'm sure the Habs will try to push that figure down closer to the 3M range over 2 years.

There's not a big gap between both sides..there's only a certain amount each side can reasonably argue for. We're talking about a 1M range between 2.75M and 3.75M.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Are you telling me that there's not a large segment of fans on this board who have it in for the coaching staff/management and are using this story about Galchenyuk firing his agent, to push their narrative against them?

Why does this need to be explained to you again?

I'm telling you that there is a signifcant portion of the fan base that disagrees with you on how this team is run. Many don't believe in it's coaching staff or management strategies. Some are more harsh than others but that's a difference of opinion - NOT agenda.

The only agenda I see from people is wanting to win. The rest is disagreement on how to get there. Some believe that management know best and put their faith there. Others use critical thought to form their own conclusions. Doesn't mean that any of these people want anything other than to see a winning team.

 

[Brainiac]

This place is so weird...we blast the GM for overpaying players, now were blasting the GM for getting his star forward locked up at under market value.

Bizarro world

I'm not blasting the GM, I'm just not giving him as much credit as some do.

I totally agree that Patches' contract is great for the team, but that's mostly because Patches accepted to sign it, knowing very well that there were ways for him to get more. He just took the risk-free approach after suffering an injury.

That's not as much on the GM as it is on the player. All I'm saying.

If a UFA star calls the GM and tells him he's ready to sign a cheap contract with the team, who's to praise there? The GM or the player?

I might look like a contrarian there, but I'm just trying to have a broader perspective. A lot of guys here have a management-centric view on everything and it just doesn't work like that, especially not in the NHL.

 

[Saundies]

Hall of Famer or not, if you're Igor Larionov and you represent somebody as their AGENT and their buffer with management, it's your job to relay your client's concerns and put your own aside, no matter what they are. As much of a d-bag as Allan Walsh is, he's very good at doing this and he gets clients because of it. Igor might not think it's a good idea or good practice to be impatient and voice your displeasure with something, but if someone is paying you (good money too, I assume) to do this then you grit your teeth and do it or you get fired.

If this is about Alex Galchenyuk being pissed that he hasn't been given a full chance to step into a C spot and show what he can do, then I am supporting him 100% in this because he's right. This shows that he wants to be put in that position and succeed. Plus it doesn't help matters that Bergevin comes out at the end of the year and claims (bizarrely) that he doesn't see Galchenyuk being a centre. That would piss me off too. You're supposed to trust this organization with your goals and your development. What's he supposed to do, blindly nod "yes sir" and sit back while Therrien and these donkeys let him die on the wing?

 

[tinyzombies]

Chucky is right on schedule. Not sure he'll ever be a center tho, he hasn't played center since he was 16 I read. Not sure about his D either..

 

[417]

Why does this need to be explained to you again?

Maybe i'm having trouble understanding? Maybe it's being poorly explained? Maybe both?

I'm telling you that there is a signifcant portion of the fan base that disagrees with you on how this team is run. Many don't believe in it's coaching staff or management strategies. Some are more harsh than others but that's a difference of opinion - NOT agenda.

You'd be surprised...I bet you I share a lot of the same sentiments that that portion of the fan base share as well. I just think it should be addressed in the right circumstances, how this team is run and Galchenyuk firing his agent, have very little to do with each other.

The only agenda I see from people is wanting to win. The rest is disagreement on how to get there. Some believe that management know best and put their faith there. Others use critical thought to form their own conclusions. Doesn't mean that any of these people want anything other than to see a winning team

Agreed...but what does any of this have to do with the 'topic du jour'? and that's Galchenyuk firing Larionov/Pulver?

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Maybe i'm having trouble understanding? Maybe it's being poorly explained? Maybe both?

It was explained very clearly. I'm not explaining it again.

 

[jaffy27]

I'm not blasting the GM, I'm just not giving him as much credit as some do.

I totally agree that Patches' contract is great for the team, but that's mostly because Patches accepted to sign it, knowing very well that there were ways for him to get more. He just took the risk-free approach after suffering an injury.

That's not as much on the GM as it is on the player. All I'm saying.

If a UFA star calls the GM and tells him he's ready to sign a cheap contract with the team, who's to praise there? The GM or the player?

I might look like a contrarian there, but I'm just trying to have a broader perspective. A lot of guys here have a management-centric view on everything and it just doesn't work like that, especially not in the NHL.

Sometimes, what makes a GM great is the deal he didn't sign.....for instance Ryan Clowe, or David Clarkson, or Benoit Pouliot....I can go on and on and on with these stupid long term high dollar deals for aging declining players. Bergevin understands this and has yet to cripple his team or bent under the pressure of its fan base...especially in the hockey Mecca of the world.
He's overpaid for young players like Emelin and Eller, but these guys were signed at a young age while their contracts will terminate before they hit 30-31. It was a miss calculation yes, but the players are not declining, they've merely just plateau'd. He's not perfect, no GM is, but his pros out way his cons by a country mile...NHL GM's and hockey Canada know this, only here do you see people bashing our GM for they have the hockey vision of a mouse, many people don't get the BIG PICTURE

 

[417]

It was explained very clearly. I'm not explaining it again.

I was being facetious...I know exactly what you meant, but I repeat, disagreeing with how management has gone about things is one thing, but it has nothing to do with anything we're currently discussing (Galchenyuk firing his agent).

 

[RealityBytes]

Sometimes, what makes a GM great is the deal he didn't sign.....for instance Ryan Clowe, or David Clarkson, or Benoit Pouliot....I can go on and on and on with these stupid long term high dollar deals for aging declining players. Bergevin understands this and has yet to cripple his team or bent under the pressure of its fan base...especially in the hockey Mecca of the world.
He's overpaid for young players like Emelin and Eller, but these guys were signed at a young age while their contracts will terminate before they hit 30-31. It was a miss calculation yes, but the players are not declining, they've merely just plateau'd. He's not perfect, no GM is, but his pros out way his cons by a country mile...NHL GM's and hockey Canada know this, only here do you see people bashing our GM for they have the hockey vision of a mouse, many people don't get the BIG PICTURE

Maybe the real BIG PICTURE is that if MB has no money left and we still can't win with the team we have, then it would be the deals he made with some of the mid players like Emelin or Eller as you say, and DD and PAP and the fillers that is the problem. No big changes and super safe is just as big a problem as someone who is willing to pull the trigger.

Is MB's main goal to win a cup, or is it to just have a team that will be OK and satisfy the owners coffers first with winning a cup just a secondary hope.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Sometimes, what makes a GM great is the deal he didn't sign.....for instance Ryan Clowe, or David Clarkson, or Benoit Pouliot....I can go on and on and on with these stupid long term high dollar deals for aging declining players. Bergevin understands this and has yet to cripple his team or bent under the pressure of its fan base...especially in the hockey Mecca of the world.
He's overpaid for young players like Emelin and Desharnais, but these guys were signed at a young age while their contracts will terminate before they hit 30-31. It was a miss calculation yes, but the players are not declining, they've merely just plateau'd. He's not perfect, no GM is, but his pros out way his cons by a country mile...NHL GM's and hockey Canada know this, only here do you see people bashing our GM for they have the hockey vision of a mouse, many people don't get the BIG PICTURE

Fixed.

Maybe the real BIG PICTURE is that if MB has no money left and we still can't win with the team we have, then it would be the deals he made with some of the mid players like Emelin or Eller as you say, and DD and PAP and the fillers that is the problem. No big changes and super safe is just as big a problem as someone who is willing to pull the trigger.

Is MB's main goal to win a cup, or is it to just have a team that will be OK and satisfy the owners coffers first with winning a cup just a secondary hope.

There's a clear pattern that we will be quite tight with our younger players... and that's fine as long as the player's willing to do it. But when you run into holdouts and arbitration hearings then it becomes an issue. There's also the penny-wise/pound foolish argument to consider. Subban for example we screwed ourselves on with the whole bridge thing so it's not necessarily the best idea to squeeze every dollar you can for two years if you're going to pay through the nose for eight.

 

[Gustave]

IF he really is disgruntled, I would look at trading him for another player that showed miscontent towards his coach: Jonathan Drouin. If we have to add, so be it.

I have no doubt about JD's future success in this league so I would go for it.

 

[Monctonscout]

Larionov comes off as bitter, he had no reason to make those comments other than to stir up ****.

Larionov is one of the most respected hockey people in the world. I doubt he just came out and said that for ****s and giggles.

The hate should not be directed at DD for this. Him taking up Galchenyuk offensive minutes is not his fault.

Desharnais isn't taking up Galchenyuk's offensive minutes. That's BS. They have 5 top 6 forwards, how is anyone missing "offensive minutes", completely ridiculous comment.

Eller wants a bigger role, Chucky wants a bigger role.......MT

So do 2/3 of the players in the NHL...on on here is it news.

Based on everything we know. I've been critical of Therrien in the past for the way he managed Galchenyuk, and based on Larionov comments, it would seem like Galchenyuk feels the same way about it. Larionov says Gally is unhappy with his ice-time and should be patient, and that's precisely what's been debated around here for the last year or so. I've made up my mind at this point.

I did say earlier though that we don't know the full picture yet, and some things are still murky as a result. But everything Larionov has stated only reinforced my belief that the issue here is Therrien.

Ice time and playing center are not synonymous.

If Galchenyuk plays center last year, his minutes drop or at best stay the same. How does that get him more minutes?

I find that playing 2nd line minutes is a lot for a 20 year old, unless you're a Crosby or Malkin(he is not), that's pretty good ice time. Seguin is one of the top players in the NHL and a #2 overall pick, his 3rd year at 20, he played 17:01 per game and put up 0.67 PPGM.

This pas year Galchenyuk produced at 0.58 PPGM and played 16:26/game.

From everything that's coming out, sounds like Galchenyuk wants to be at centre but MT doesn't want him there (...yet). Chucky told his agents and they told him to be patient rather than going to MT and voicing their clients displeasure. Pissed off Chucky as he wants hi agents to have his back and lack of production is costing him $$$ in his negotiations.

Sound about right?

Nothing that's come out has mentioned center. All that was said is he wants to play more. If he was playing center he'd get about the same minutes at best, maybe less, at 20 he wouldn't be replacing Pleaknec's 19:09 per game.

 

[The Nightman]

Larionov is one of the most respected hockey people in the world. I doubt he just came out and said that for ****s and giggles

The guy got fired, just goes to shows how professional he is.

 

[Alex514]

Larionov's client list is not at all that impressive. Arguably the 2 biggest names are Mike Cammaleri & Tyler Seguin. By making such strong public comments he just comes out as being bitter that Chucky jumped ship to Brisson who Lari sees rightfuly as being a rival and a threat. Nice way to court the other pool of players in this league

 

[LyricalLyricist]

IF chucky is worried about the habs and his playing time he should sign a 1 year deal and prove himself.

His ice time has increased 2 minutes every year. There's zero reason to think it won't increase further.

 

[Ghetto Sangria]

I was being facetious...I know exactly what you meant, but I repeat, disagreeing with how management has gone about things is one thing, but it has nothing to do with anything we're currently discussing (Galchenyuk firing his agent).

Don't bother. A lot of fans were pissed off after Bergevin's "interesting" press conference. Personally, I think he said what he said there to take pressure of Chuckie. Now a lot of fans are looking for ways to relate everything to his presser. All of a sudden, chuckie and bergy have a bad relationship! . Guess I missed the evidence.

Even though this team is a cup contender (or close) that is only trending upward, it isn't satisfactory enough for some. They need something to complain about... or rather... to "discuss".

At least they are ****ting on management and not the players. I think that's exactly what Bergy wanted.

 

[68*]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Alex needs to get away from his sister.r

Huh? Why?

 

[RealityBytes]

Don't bother. A lot of fans were pissed off after Bergevin's "interesting" press conference. Personally, I think he said what he said there to take pressure of Chuckie. Now a lot of fans are looking for ways to relate everything to his presser. All of a sudden, chuckie and bergy have a bad relationship! . Guess I missed the evidence.

Even though this team is a cup contender (or close) that is only trending upward, it isn't satisfactory enough for some. They need something to complain about... or rather... to "discuss".

At least they are ****ting on management and not the players. I think that's exactly what Bergy wanted.

I don't think the Habs are a real cup contender, not against the likes of TB, NYR, Anaheim, and Chicago, and even though there may be a trending upward, that upward is not as upward as other teams. In other words, compared to other trending teams, it is no more than standing still.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

I don't think the Habs are a real cup contender, not against the likes of TB, NYR, Anaheim, and Chicago, and even though there may be a trending upward, that upward is not as upward as other teams. In other words, compared to other trending teams, it is no more than standing still.

The habs are a key trade away from being in that spot though but will it happen? Who knows.

 

[BLONG7]

Weren't we 11-1-1 with Chucky at centre, and DD over with Eller as a winger........and then MT switched him out?? He said Chucky was more comfortable at the wing, but it was just MT wanting DD back at centre?? Is this correct?