Gagarin Cup Playoffs 2021

[Rufus T Firefly]

Today's game is a good example of a few things I've been thinking about for a while: 1) Is Morozov actual 1C of SKA at this point?; 2) Is he actually more important to them than Marchenko; 3) Is he a better prospect at this point?

Yes, yes, probably not? What do you guys think?

Honestly, that game was so dysfunctional from SKA, I don't think any conclusions should be drawn from it Horrible, horrible game from SKA's side (although to give Minsk credit, they really tightened up defensively).

But 1.) I think Vey is still probably the center Bragin leans on most in the offensive zone, and Kemppainen in the defensive zone. Not sure how much Bragin thinks in terms of 1C, 2C, etc., since he tends to role four lines pretty evenly (but not this game!).

2.) Is he more important than Marchenko? I'm not sure. A center is always almost more important than a winger, but Morozov and Marchenko have played so much together this year, it's kind of hard to differienate them and decide who helps who more.

3.) That said, I still think Marchenko is the better prospect. He shot is excellent, and Morozov while really good in many areas, doesn't really have any one excellent attribute (although, I'm open to be convinced otherwise). I think Marchenko has higher NHL upside as well if we want to talk about that. I think he fits better into an NHL lineup than Morozov.

Any idea why he didn't play yesterday?

 

[SoundAndFury]

You as a hockey fan should be happy for such high attendance numbers in hockey match during this season.

It's the playoffs, they allowed full capacity, and the tickets are as cheap as ever. They have the same attendance numbers every year. I'm glad it makes you happy but there is nothing out of the ordinary there. At the same time, is it smart to allow full capacity (which is a key factor here) isn't the topic for the hockey board to discuss.

But 1.) I think Vey is still probably the center Bragin leans on most in the offensive zone, and Kemppainen in the defensive zone. Not sure how much Bragin thinks in terms of 1C, 2C, etc., since he tends to role four lines pretty evenly (but not this game!).

2.) Is he more important than Marchenko? I'm not sure. A center is always almost more important than a winger, but Morozov and Marchenko have played so much together this year, it's kind of hard to differienate them and decide who helps who more.

3.) That said, I still think Marchenko is the better prospect. He shot is excellent, and Morozov while really good in many areas, doesn't really have any one excellent attribute (although, I'm open to be convinced otherwise). I think Marchenko has higher NHL upside as well if we want to talk about that. I think he fits better into an NHL lineup than Morozov.

Any idea why he didn't play yesterday?

He got a major penalty in game 3 and was suspended for game 4.

1) That's exactly my reasoning. There is no question Vey was nominally supposed to be 1C and arguably nominally still is. But Morozov is quite firmly outscoring him now so the question has to be asked who is what: if the team's best center offensively is the one that's being leaned on the most or the one who produces the most.

2) In terms of team composition, SKA just seems more stacked on the wing. But yes, it is a tough call. Especially when they insist on playing Stromwall which partly creates this impression that they are deeper on the wing when it's really not a given fact that he's better than Aaltonen.

3) Yes, that's where I agree, Marchenko is much more of a sure thing. Although at this point, it would be quite shocking to see Morozov bust.

 

[vorky]

It's the playoffs, they allowed full capacity, and the tickets are as cheap as ever. They have the same attendance numbers every year. I'm glad it makes you happy but there is nothing out of the ordinary there. At the same time, is it smart to allow full capacity (which is a key factor here) isn't the topic for the hockey board to discuss.

I would recommend you to check the facts before writing here. It would help the debate overall.

And other European clubs & leagues can negotiate with their governments to allow more % of the capacity, to quote you "full capacity", for the playoff stage. It would be great to see it happening. And I am hoping the clubs & leagues are doing it. Honestly, I do not understand why you dislike the fact that ordinary fans are coming to the games again. And yes, I am happy for the fans & the clubs. It is awesome to see happy fans in stands.

 

[Rufus T Firefly]

He got a major penalty in game 3 and was suspended for game 4.

1) That's exactly my reasoning. There is no question Vey was nominally supposed to be 1C and arguably nominally still is. But Morozov is quite firmly outscoring him now so the question has to be asked who is what: if the team's best center offensively is the one that's being leaned on the most or the one who produces the most.

2) In terms of team composition, SKA just seems more stacked on the wing. But yes, it is a tough call. Especially when they insist on playing Stromwall which partly creates this impression that they are deeper on the wing when it's really not a given fact that he's better than Aaltonen.

3) Yes, that's where I agree, Marchenko is much more of a sure thing. Although at this point, it would be quite shocking to see Morozov bust.

Ah, thanks. Wasn't able to watch any games this weekend and I didn't see he'd gotten suspended.

1.) It wouldn't surprise me if Morozov took over the role as the team's leading center next year, or even during these playoffs. I think we'll get that answer when SKA is trailing in the third period and see who Bragin uses more in these playoffs. I still think Vey has it as of now though.

2.) Yes, I think if SKA were to lose Morozov, they'd be a worse team than if they lost Marchenko, just because they are very deep in the wings. But I don't necessarily think that makes Morozov the better prospect. And I think Stromwall brings a great transition game to SKA that they somtimes lack. He was really the only player creating anything for SKA in the second and third periods last game. But ideally you have both Stromwall and Aaltonen in the lineup, with Aaltonen at center.

3.) I'm not so sure. I get kind of bad feeling thinking about Morozov in the NHL. I just don't know if his game translates as well to NA as someone like Marchenko, for example. I don't know if that's just because there aren't that many high-end Russian centers in the NHL now, except for the very elite like Malkin and Kuznetsov or what. But I get kind of Namestnikov vibes though from him. Maybe that's unfair, and as I can't quite put my finger on what it is that gives me those vibes, my view could be very, very wrong But I don't think he'd bust, since even if things didn't work out in NA, he'd still be a great player in the KHL, and sometimes that's just more of a style thing than it is a skill thing.

 

[SoundAndFury]

I would recommend you to check the facts before writing here. It would help the debate overall.

And other European clubs & leagues can negotiate with their governments to allow more % of the capacity, to quote you "full capacity", for the playoff stage. It would be great to see it happening. And I am hoping the clubs & leagues are doing it. Honestly, I do not understand why you dislike the fact that ordinary fans are coming to the games again. And yes, I am happy for the fans & the clubs. It is awesome to see happy fans in stands.

True, evidently last time Minsk played in PO their attendance was actually 15k. Which I don't know how supports your argument and whatnot, but whatever. To be completely fair, it's not even clear what your argument is at this point. And that's what I don't like, that you throw in some random numbers "for fun" to "analyze" and proceed to do nothing of the sort. I'm asking, for the 3rd time, how is that numbers relevant or noteworthy in any way?

 

[Rufus T Firefly]

Galimov looked like McDavid out there today. Two scoring plays where he skated through everybody on Minsk.

 

[SoundAndFury]

Wow, what an ending to SYu - Traktor series... Refs decide on a penalty shot with 19s remaining for Fedotov intentionally moving the goal and Granlund scores..

Balls of steel for those refs, I feel decision like that would have never been made in the NHL and I mean it in a good way for the KHL: rules are rules, Fedotov made his bed and had to sleep in it. Although I have no doubt Traktor fans aren't going to be happy at all.

Also, I feel the last CSKA - Spartak game where Johansson got 2 delay of the game penalties for moving the goal in what was really unintentional, innocent situations set a huge precedent going forward, at least in this PO.

 

[vorky]

 

[vorky]

..............

 

[vorky]

Today 11 913 fans in Minsk. The league´s average is 4 621 for the 2021 Gagarin Cup playoffs so far.

Average attendance keeps the same after Round 1 with over 175k people in stands. COVID restrictions still working.

For comparison, the Czech league (TELH) is in the middle of pre-round, after 8 games the total attendance is zero. Other major European leagues still playing the regular-season.

 

[SoundAndFury]

Yes, that video of Granlund's penalty shot really reflects the aptitude of those "working COVID restrictions". Nice narrative you got there, comrade.

 

[vorky]

If you do not understand, I can explain. COVID restrictions are still working at KHL arenas, somewhere more fans are allowed, somewhere less. It depends on a club by club. As I know, no KHL club is playing with empty seats. But, also, no 2021 KHL GC playoff game was played (so far) with full capacity.

Btw, the games are always more enjoyable with fans than without fans. Feel free to disagree.

Hoping the fans will keep coming to the remaining games of the 2021 GC playoffs. The same I hope for the other European leagues. I will keep monitoring all of them.

You can disagree and prove me wrong, but I believe Dinamo Minsk v SKA Game 4 has been the most attended hockey game of this 2020-2021 season on this lovely planet so far.

 

[Atas2000]

Yes, that video of Granlund's penalty shot really reflects the aptitude of those "working COVID restrictions". Nice narrative you got there, comrade.

Why would we need COVID restrictions by now? That is the question.

 

[Jussi]

Yes, that video of Granlund's penalty shot really reflects the aptitude of those "working COVID restrictions". Nice narrative you got there, comrade.

Covid variants spreading throughout Europe right now and strict restrictions everywhere, not sure why anyone expects there to be crowds this season. I mean the Worlds are likely to be played without fans.

 

[SoundAndFury]

You can disagree and prove me wrong, but I believe Dinamo Minsk v SKA Game 4 has been the most attended hockey game of this 2020-2021 season on this lovely planet so far.

I have asked you half dozen times by now: how is it relevant to anything? What's the point of this "analysis" you are providing? You are yet to answer, just keep spamming your "monitoring" for no apparent reason.

By the way, didn't KHL attendance have a separate thread if you insist to keep up this spam for months? What I don't like isn't that you are wrong, it's that it's impossible to be wrong when you aren't even saying anything. And you pick the most active thread to do it because you know no one would even pay attention to your "analysis" otherwise.

 

[vorky]

Hockey is played for fans. Generally, attendance is an indicator of the league´s & club´s popularity. It also shows us the business side of the club or league. So, yeah, it is important to monitor attendance. And compare league by league. Even the IIHF is doing it.

Now we are living in a special time, so attendance also shows us how quickly (if at all) the leagues & societies are recovering from COVID. So again, it is important to know the attendance numbers.

And here because we are in the playoff stage.

 

[Jussi]

so attendance also shows us how quickly (if at all) the leagues & societies are recovering from COVID.

It also shows which societies don't care for the safety of it's citizens.

 

[Artorius Horus T]

SKA needs to play wayyyy better not to get swept by the Dynamo.

 

[Rufus T Firefly]

SKA needs to play wayyyy better not to get swept by the Dynamo.

Not really. They dominated the whole second period with a number of prolonged shifts in the offensive zone. Dynamo's goal really came against the run of play then. And the first two goals were both pretty soft by Samonov. He stops those and it's 0-0 going into the third.

Their powerplay needs to improve, they need to figure out how to avoid Dynamo's blue line wall when transitioning into the offensive zone, and they need to find a way to get more high danger shots instead shots from the perimeter or at least have someone take away the goalie's eyes. But that's pretty standard for any team that loses a playoff game.

 

[aonb]

Can't go far in PO with top line + Kadeykin only. Good job Ak Bars

 

[SoundAndFury]

Well, you need more money to get better players... Hard to blame Salavat for anything, they are getting their money worth from pretty much every investment, if anything their most overpaid player is probably Metsola, at this point. But you just can't compete with teams that can afford 4 lines when you can afford 2 and then have to trade one of your key forwards for a bottom pairing D.

 

[SoundAndFury]

SKA needs to play wayyyy better not to get swept by the Dynamo.

And yet the objective take would have been "it's nice SKA underperformed in the game 1 because it means Dynamo isn't getting swept now".

And one can say SYu did bad, they only have one line, they got swept etc. and so many teams got swept in the first round and whatnot but the reality is that you still can't do anything to those 4 lines deep teams.

 

[Rufus T Firefly]

And yet the objective take would have been "it's nice SKA underperformed in the game 1 because it means Dynamo isn't getting swept now".

And one can say SYu did bad, they only have one line, they got swept etc. and so many teams got swept in the first round and whatnot but the reality is that you still can't do anything to those 4 lines deep teams.

I'm not sure what the opposite of clutch is, but whatever it is, that's what Dynamo was. This last game was such a good example of it: tons of pressure in the first, but no goals despite som huge chances, then in the second 4 penalties back-to-back leading to two 5-3's and two PPGs against, and then giving up kind of in the third. That OT loss in Game 3 looked like a backbreaker.

But Hellberg deserves a lot of credit. He really kept SKA in some games where it could have gotten away from them.

 

[Caser]

It's gonna be Game 7 in the CSKA and Loko matchup!

 

[vorky]