GDT: G20 - CAR @ MIN - Exes at the X - 1:00PM Central - FSN

[TaLoN]

That doesn’t make sense

I have no problem with Boudreau benching Fiala when he’s playing like an idiot, but he was playing a solid game today, and has been playing solid for weeks now, so I think it’s stupid to bench him after one turnover in the 3rd period of a TIED game

He's not the first young player benched in that scenario, he won't be the last. Fans complain every time.

I won't complain though if they think this is in his best interest, especially if it pays off in the long run. Not like we're going anywhere this season anyway.

 

[AKL]

I don't see how sitting a player for the last 8 minutes is going to teach him not to make turnovers. I didn't see the turnover in question, but I don't see how benching Fiala helps him turn the puck over less.

There's also the theory in psychology that punishment is not effective at reducing a behavior, and may result in more negative than positive. Especially when you consider that Fiala is the only one being punished for turnovers.

 

[TaLoN]

I don't see how sitting a player for the last 8 minutes is going to teach him not to make turnovers. I didn't see the turnover in question, but I don't see how benching Fiala helps him turn the puck over less.

Players want ice time. He lost ice time. He's being told he's got to be smarter with the puck if he wants ice time.

It's literally a classic method that is used at all levels of play.

 

[AKL]

Players want ice time. He lost ice time. He's being told he's got to be smarter with the puck if he wants ice time.

It's literally a classic method that is used at all levels of play.

Classic and largely ineffective, as agreed upon by many, many psychologists. See my amended post.

 

[TaLoN]

Classic and largely ineffective, as agreed upon by many, many psychologists. See my amended post.

Not many psychologists in coaching.

 

[AKL]

Not many psychologists in coaching.

Which doesn't mean punishment is effective or good, again, considering the circumstances here.

 

[TaLoN]

Which doesn't mean punishment is effective or good, again, considering the circumstances here.

Yet, it doesn't invalidate all the quality development that has happened under such methods.

 

[AKL]

Yet, it doesn't invalidate all the quality development that has happened under such methods.

Quality development which can't actually be attributed to the punishment.

 

[TaLoN]

Quality development which can't actually be attributed to the punishment.

By whom? Some arbitrary bystander who talked to neither the coach or player involved.

If coaches punishing and rewarding players accomplishes nothing, why even have coaches?

 

[AKL]

By whom? Some arbitrary bystander who talked to neither the coach or player involved.

Look up the science. There's literally a ton of studies and research that has been done that indicates that punishment is often completely ineffective and has far more negative consequences than positive consequences.

And then consider the circumstances. Fiala has been playing great for the last 6 games, scoring in 5 of those, for 6 points total. All of a sudden he has one turnover and he's benched for the last 8 minutes of a game. Who else on this team apart from Donato and maybe Hartman have been benched for making one bad play? Why is Fiala the only one being punished, and why to such a severe extent after 6.5 good to great games?

This isn't really that hard of a concept to grasp.

 

[TaLoN]

Look up the science. There's literally a ton of studies and research that has been done that indicates that punishment is often completely ineffective and has far more negative consequences than positive consequences.

And then consider the circumstances. Fiala has been playing great for the last 6 games, scoring in 5 of those, for 6 points total. All of a sudden he has one turnover and he's benched for the last 8 minutes of a game. Who else on this team apart from Donato and maybe Hartman have been benched for making one bad play? Why is Fiala the only one being punished, and why to such a severe extent after 6.5 good to great games?

This isn't really that hard of a concept to grasp.

Hey, you want to believe studies that say punishment serves no purpose, go for it. I'm just as welcome to disagree. You're not going to convince me otherwise.

People don't like punishment, they love rewards. They strive to get rewards and avoid punishment.

 

[2Pair]

Not many psychologists in coaching.

Couldn't be more wrong.

 

[AKL]

Hey, you want to believe studies that say punishment serves no purpose, go for it. I'm just as welcome to disagree. You're not going to convince me otherwise.

People don't like punishment, they love rewards. They strive to get rewards and avoid punishment.

This is archaic. You're welcome to disagree but that doesn't make your opinion valid. Many people disagree with the well established fact that the earth is round. It doesn't give their opinion validity.

 

[TaLoN]

This is archaic. You're welcome to disagree but that doesn't make your opinion valid. Many people disagree with the well established fact that the earth is round. It doesn't give their opinion validity.

My opinion isn't invalid either. It's an opinion. Yours is also neither valid or invalid, it's your opinion.

The whole "negative" connotation from psychologists is why people push for not keeping score in youth sports, don't want someone to "feel" like they lost because of the negative feeling associated with it.

Sorry if you feel that's archaic, I just call it real life.

 

[AKL]

My opinion isn't invalid either. It's an opinion. Yours is also neither valid or invalid, it's your opinion.

The whole "negative" connotation from psychologists is why people push for not keeping score in youth sports, don't want someone to "feel" like they lost because of the negative feeling associated with it.

Sorry if you feel that's archaic, I just call it real life.

Unreal

 

[2Pair]

The best part of this conversation is that anybody could think that Boudreau makes good decisions when it comes to his allocation of icetime.

 

[TaLoN]

Unreal

Unreal that you think opinions can be valid or invalid? You realize opinions are a belief without sufficient evidence to be fact? A study is just a study. It's not proven fact. A study doesn't determine fact, its it's a search for evidence for a result you need to follow studies with tests to prove or disprove said observations to come to fact.

Thus your opinion is just that, your opinion. Neither right or wrong. Same as mine.

 

[Wild11MN]

The best part of this conversation is that anybody could think that Boudreau makes good decisions when it comes to his allocation of icetime.

Why should Boudreau punish Parise with less ice time if it'll only have a negative result? That's what I'm hearing.

(mostly kidding)

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I think Boudreau was just looking for a reason to play for the OT point.

I don't recall a turnover that was any more egregious than anybody else's.

 

[AKL]

Unreal that you think opinions can be valid or invalid? You realize opinions are a belief without sufficient evidence to be fact? A study is just a study. It's not proven fact. A study doesn't determine fact, its it's a search for evidence for a result you need to follow studies with tests to prove or disprove said observations to come to fact.

Thus your opinion is just that, your opinion. Neither right or wrong. Same as mine.

Are you anti-vaccine?

 

[AKL]

Why should Boudreau punish Parise with less ice time if it'll only have a negative result? That's what I'm hearing.

(mostly kidding)

The difference is that Parise’s ice time should be reduced because he sucks, not because you’re hoping to get rid of a negative behavior.

 

[Wild11MN]

The difference is that Parise’s ice time should be reduced because he sucks, not because you’re hoping to get rid of a negative behavior.

Yeah, I'm just having fun with the conversation.

 

[TaLoN]

Are you anti-vaccine?

Absolutely not. Vaccines are tested and proven factual success.

A flawed and debunked "study" tried to say otherwise.

 

[AKL]

Absolutely not. Vaccines are tested and proven factual success.

A flawed and debunked "study" tried to say otherwise.

So how many psychologists and studies need to continue to show the same result before you believe the science here?

 

[TaLoN]

So how many psychologists and studies need to continue to show the same result before you believe the science here?

They need to move on from studies and move to testing/ experiment to prove or disprove.

Right now, the only real world results are what is seen from coaches developing players in the real world. They all use punishment and reward.

Hell, even fans want to see players punished with less ice time we see it in game threads constantly from Parise/Rask to Dumba/Suter.