Salary Cap: Future Roster Building (2017-18 and beyond) Pt. 4 | Contract/FA charts in Post #1

[Malkinstheman]

Vegas got a few didn't they?

As of now they've only signed Shipachyov. They were supposed to sign the other guy too but nothing was announced.

 

[Ogrezilla]

As of now they've only signed Shipachyov. They were supposed to sign the other guy too but nothing was announced.

ah I thought they got both. I don't know any of these guys anyway

 

[mpp9]

I don't have much interest in trading assets for players around the same or worse than Bonino. Just give him a few hundred K more, overpay a guy like Thornton in free agency or use your assets to get a legit game breaker in Duchene.

 

[Riptide]

I guess we'll find out soon enough. **** is gonna go down quick after this season ends.

One of the very good side benefits of long playoff runs. None of this waiting for weeks or months for **** to happen. The cup gets handed out, the parade happens (here or in NSH) and **** goes down. I mean as of today it's 1 week from when the ED lists are given to the NHL - and we still have a game or two to play.

 

[Riptide]

As of now they've only signed Shipachyov. They were supposed to sign the other guy too but nothing was announced.

The other guy everyone was talking about cannot sign until August or something like that.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I don't have much interest in trading assets for players around the same or worse than Bonino. Just give him a few hundred K more, overpay a guy like Thornton in free agency or use your assets to get a legit game breaker in Duchene.

there's got to be someone in between Bones and Duchene we could trade for, right. Duchene is going to cost A LOT of assets.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I don't have much interest in trading assets for players around the same or worse than Bonino. Just give him a few hundred K more, overpay a guy like Thornton in free agency or use your assets to get a legit game breaker in Duchene.

Idk, I'd much rather trade for Jarnkrok and his 5 years left at $2 million per year over re-signing Bonino for double what Jarnkrok is making.

 

[Malkinstheman]

Team like the Jackets, Canadiens, Blues are desperate for a #1C. On top of that, the Isles have to acquire a game breaker to provide help for Tavares. Then theres teams that could use another Top-6 C like the Sens and Preds. During the offseason I dont see how we beat out any of these teams.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Idk, I'd much rather trade for Jarnkrok and his 5 years left at $2 million per year over re-signing Bonino for double what Jarnkrok is making.

but what are you trading for him? Why are they trading Jarnkrok? We can't just make teams give us their players because we want them

Team like the Jackets, Canadiens, Blues are desperate for a #1C. On top of that, the Isles have to acquire a game breaker to provide help for Tavares. Then theres teams that could use another Top-6 C like the Sens and Preds. During the offseason I dont see how we beat out any of these teams.

Indeed. One of these teams will outbid us for Duchene.

 

[Empoleon8771]

but what are you trading for him? Why are they trading Jarnkrok? We can't just make teams give us their players because we want them

Jarnkrok is almost definitely being taken by Vegas in the expansion draft and I've read that Vegas is treating the expansion draft like an auction. So that's a way that the Penguins could pull off Jarnkrok or a guy like Jarnkrok.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Jarnkrok is almost definitely being taken by Vegas in the expansion draft and I've read that Vegas is treating the expansion draft like an auction. So that's a way that the Penguins could pull off Jarnkrok or a guy like Jarnkrok.

if we can get him for a reasonable deal then by all means, do it.

 

[Riptide]

there's got to be someone in between Bones and Duchene we could trade for, right. Duchene is going to cost A LOT of assets.

Zach Smith is someone who we might be able to swing a deal for - likely via LV. Same goes for Staal - although he'd probably be a lot more expensive. Not Duchene expensive, but he had 28g/65pts last season and will not be cheap. My ideal #3C is still Sobotka, but I don't think he gets exposed in the ED. But if he did, I'd be all over that and trying to find a way to get him via LV.

 

[Ogrezilla]

man if we can just lose Fleury and then actually get a good 3C out of the expansion draft, that would be hilarious to actually come out ahead because of it

 

[AjaxTelamon]

Bonino is the guy I'm thinking is going to be asking for too much money, seeing how he hasn't made much over his NHL career and could probably be a passable 2C on a team like Nashville. In that case, the Penguins shouldn't match what a team desperate for a center will be offering Bonino. They should look elsewhere, even if they have to trade for a guy. If the Penguins are trading for a 3C, I'm going after guys like Haula, Jarnkrok, Sheahan (he's actually the guy I'd probably go after first, his value would definitely be low due to the season he just had) or Faksa.

This is a better list of generally younger replacements (Sheahan aside). But it won't be cheap to acquire them. A first round pick may do it for a Haula, I wouldn't think it would come close for Jarnkrok. I'd imagine they would want maybe Sheary + a 2nd or 3rd. So now your forward group is:

Guentzel Crosby PH
Wilson Geno Kessel
Hagelin Jarnkrok Rust
Kuhn Rowney Archibald

Which is not as good as what we have now, and ties you to Hagelin, where we could have:

Guentzel Crosby PH
Wilson Geno Kessel
Sheary Bonino Rust
Hagelin Rowney Kuhn/Archi

So how do we acquire Jarnkrok without messing up our winger depth? Haula may be ok, but we'd be giving up a 1st, and our D pool remains empty.

 

[jmelm]

Updated Salary Cap

TSN reporting that the NHLPA will not exercise the 5% escalator, and that the cap will remain flat at $73M. There are a few things this means for the Pens, IMO.


1) It pretty much now becomes essential that we trade Hagelin. I don't think we'll get much if anything for him, but perhaps we could induce Vegas to take him in the ED if we trade MAF to them for nothing (or ensure they can take MAF if we can trade Hagelin to them)


2) This may actually help us with negotiations for guys like Dumo, Sheary, Schultz and Bonino. I'm not saying it will have a massive impact, but could shave off $250-500k on each of their deals (essentially putting them at the lower range of what is projected, i.e. Dumoulin between 3M-3.5M on a long term deal, etc.)


3) We now cannot expect to have the cap space to go after a big name UFA or trade, which I didn't feel was likely to happen anyway (such as trade for Duchene, or signing Oshie/Alzner/Shattenkirk or anyone else such as that).

 

[Empoleon8771]

Why do we have to trade Hagelin with a flat cap? Sheary at $3 million, Schultz at $4.5 million, Bonino at $3.25 million and Dumoulin at $3.5 million (all fair guesses IMO) gives the Penguins:

Guentzel-Crosby-Rust
Hagelin-Malkin-Kessel
Sheary-Bonino-Hornqvist
Wilson-Rowney-Archibald
Kuhnhackl

Dumoulin-Letang
Maatta-Schultz
Cole-XXXXX

Murray-Jarry

That lineup costs $69.5 million, so the Penguins have like $3 million in cap space to sign a bottom pair RD. That doesn't improve the defense, but I really don't think the Penguins have to trade Hagelin.

 

[JTG]

TSN reporting that the NHLPA will not exercise the 5% escalator, and that the cap will remain flat at $73M. There are a few things this means for the Pens, IMO.


1) It pretty much now becomes essential that we trade Hagelin. I don't think we'll get much if anything for him, but perhaps we could induce Vegas to take him in the ED if we trade MAF to them for nothing (or ensure they can take MAF if we can trade Hagelin to them)


2) This may actually help us with negotiations for guys like Dumo, Sheary, Schultz and Bonino. I'm not saying it will have a massive impact, but could shave off $250-500k on each of their deals (essentially putting them at the lower range of what is projected, i.e. Dumoulin between 3M-3.5M on a long term deal, etc.)


3) We now cannot expect to have the cap space to go after a big name UFA or trade, which I didn't feel was likely to happen anyway (such as trade for Duchene, or signing Oshie/Alzner/Shattenkirk or anyone else such as that).

Like 2 months ago a suit for the NHL said the cap would be up around 76m.

 

[Hockeyholic]

Win or lose, the D needs fixing. I'd like to see them grab Shatty or Alzner

 

[Empoleon8771]

This is a better list of generally younger replacements (Sheahan aside). But it won't be cheap to acquire them. A first round pick may do it for a Haula, I wouldn't think it would come close for Jarnkrok. I'd imagine they would want maybe Sheary + a 2nd or 3rd. So now your forward group is:

Guentzel Crosby PH
Wilson Geno Kessel
Hagelin Jarnkrok Rust
Kuhn Rowney Archibald

Which is not as good as what we have now, and ties you to Hagelin, where we could have:

Guentzel Crosby PH
Wilson Geno Kessel
Sheary Bonino Rust
Hagelin Rowney Kuhn/Archi

So how do we acquire Jarnkrok without messing up our winger depth? Haula may be ok, but we'd be giving up a 1st, and our D pool remains empty.

What possible way could they have the kind of leverage to ask for something like that? Sheary had just as many assists this year in 19 less games as Jarnkrok had points. They have absolutely no leverage to be asking for something like that for him. I feel like you just made an extremely over the top example to defend re-signing Bonino.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

What possible way could they have the kind of leverage to ask for something like that? Sheary had just as many assists this year in 19 less games as Jarnkrok had points. They have absolutely no leverage to be asking for something like that for him. I feel like you just made an extremely over the top example to defend re-signing Bonino.

Because he'll cost more $ than Jarnkrok to sign, he's not a center, and he's small. Do you think Wilson and a 1st will do it? And even if it would, you still opened up another hole.

Look, I understand your point that paying Bonino 4m isn't optimal. I agree. But we're faced with a number of non-optimal options:

1. Pay Bonino 4M
2. Pay Hanzal 4M
3. Trade a mid 6 winger + futures for a young 3C

Pick your poison. I'd just pay Bonino and move on unless JR can pull a rabbit out of a hat.

 

[Riptide]

TSN reporting that the NHLPA will not exercise the 5% escalator, and that the cap will remain flat at $73M. There are a few things this means for the Pens, IMO.


1) It pretty much now becomes essential that we trade Hagelin. I don't think we'll get much if anything for him, but perhaps we could induce Vegas to take him in the ED if we trade MAF to them for nothing (or ensure they can take MAF if we can trade Hagelin to them)

3) We now cannot expect to have the cap space to go after a big name UFA or trade, which I didn't feel was likely to happen anyway (such as trade for Duchene, or signing Oshie/Alzner/Shattenkirk or anyone else such as that).

I think Hagelin is only someone you need to trade if you trying to sign/acquire a big name player. Otherwise I don't see it being a big deal.

 

[Harvey Birdman]

Not going to quote out of the locked thread but the reality of Schultz at 5-5.5m is a real reality. Facts are he is our top defense option when Letang goes down, which I am a huge Letang fan but he will go down. I won't bet on him being long term healthy or any other player for that fact. You have to build contingency in your line up.

With the Gostisbehere signing I really feel at a bare minimum Schultz's negotiation value is north of 5m. And someone stated something of "if I were Schultz I'd take a lower hit and term for the team", well yes as a fan yes you would. But players 99% of the time utilize their maximized value when it comes to contract years. And I won't hold anything against Schultz if he pushes that number high because in his shoes I would do the same thing, pay me and pay me what I deserve and have earned.

I hope we get him at term for 4.5-4.75m but I'm not going to be shocked if he goes north of 5m.

 

[jmelm]

I think Hagelin is only someone you need to trade if you trying to sign/acquire a big name player. Otherwise I don't see it being a big deal.

Why do we have to trade Hagelin with a flat cap? Sheary at $3 million, Schultz at $4.5 million, Bonino at $3.25 million and Dumoulin at $3.5 million (all fair guesses IMO) gives the Penguins:

1) I just can't see us being able to re-sign Bonino if we also have Hagelin. We can't fit both next year.


2) Also, the problem isn't necessarily next season, but the following season. Guentzel, Rust, Wilson, Kuhn, Hornqvist, Cole and Sprong will all need new deals that year.


So in terms of trading Hagelin, I think it would be a lot safer to do that this summer when LV and certain other teams have much more flexibility, incentive and inclination to do that. I think it could get very risky for us if we put ourselves in a position where next summer we could potentially lose a key player (like Horny or Cole) if we can't move Hagelin at that time. We will be bent over a barrel and have no leverage. We should aim to move him this summer when we're not in such a compromised position.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

1) I just can't see us being able to re-sign Bonino if we also have Hagelin. We can't fit both next year.


2) Also, the problem isn't necessarily next season, but the following season. Guentzel, Rust, Wilson, Kuhn, Hornqvist, Cole and Sprong will all need new deals that year.


So in terms of trading Hagelin, I think it would be a lot safer to do that this summer when LV and certain other teams have much more flexibility, incentive and inclination to do that. I think it could get very risky for us if we put ourselves in a position where next summer we could potentially lose a key player (like Horny or Cole) if we can't move Hagelin at that time. We will be bent over a barrel and have no leverage. We should aim to move him this summer when we're not in such a compromised position.

Well, Guentzel won't be up next summer, he's on a 3 year ELC, but the point stands. I'd see about moving Hags this summer as well. The idea of trading LV MAF and getting a guarantee they take Hags is pretty solid.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Because he'll cost more $ than Jarnkrok to sign, he's not a center, and he's small. Do you think Wilson and a 1st will do it? And even if it would, you still opened up another hole.

A. Sheary had a nearly 70 point pace this year. You're literally making up reasons for him to have less value than Jarnkrok. It's straight up nonsense. Sheary's a top-6 forward coming off an incredible season, it's utterly baseless to say that Jarnkrok has that much more value than him.
B. Yes, I do think Wilson and a 1st would be enough for Jarnkrok.

Look, I understand your point that paying Bonino 4m isn't optimal. I agree. But we're faced with a number of non-optimal options:

1. Pay Bonino 4M
2. Pay Hanzal 4M
3. Trade a mid 6 winger + futures for a young 3C

Pick your poison. I'd just pay Bonino and move on unless JR can pull a rabbit out of a hat.

Again, you have no evidence that it would take this much to trade for a young 3C.