Salary Cap: Future Roster Building (2017-18 and beyond) Pt. 3 | Contract/FA charts in Post #1

[jmelm]

Hornqvist should be in the 5 mil range. Anything over 6 and his contract will get rough in the near future. He's a complementary player. Once you start paying guys like that 2/3 of what Sid and Geno make, our cap structure is gonna get ****ed up.

I don't even think Hornqvist will get $5M. He's a great player, but from next season forward he will NOT be playing on a top line role with Sid and will be a (really great) middle 6 forward, and other guys will be getting more ice time and PP time. As such, his numbers may dip. I think we will re-sign him in the range of 4.5-4.75 -- a modest bump from what he's making. We probably give him another year than we should (5 years instead of 4 years) to not only keep the cap hit where it should be, but also keep Hornqvist where he wants to be: in Pittsburgh.

 

[Penske]

With the Gostisbehere signing Schultz's contract number probably just rose.

I wouldn't say that. He's not getting more or substantially more.

 

[Darth Vitale]

Freidman's 30 thoughts:

It sounds like Freidman is buying the idea that Fleury will just waive for the expansion draft and Vegas will take him there.

I wouldn't be surprised at all. I would however feel bad for Flower. His personality doesn't seem well suited to Vegas. That is if they didn't flip him.

Sprong in the AHL, and Rust at LW I would think.

I agree. I think Sprong will get the same treatment some of these other youngsters have gotten. Most of the year in WBS, and once he's comfortable with the system and (hopefully) still racking up decent numbers, he'll get called up towards the end of the year. If someone is hurt / and or he is producing at the NHL level without being a defensive liability, I could see him staying up for any potential playoff run. Seems to be this team's MO with young guys (more or less).

1. Let Bonino go
2. Trade Fleury to Vegas in exchange for them promising to take Hagelin
3. Sign Thornton & Marleau to twin 1-year $5M deals

Guentzel-Crobsy-Sheary
Rust-Malkin-Kessel
Marleau-Thornton-Hornqvist
Wilson-Rowney-Archibald

Maatta-Letang
Dumo-Schultz
Cole-Ruh

Murr
Jarr

Hahah. While that's pretty far-fetched, there is a certain evil genius to it. Either one of those guys really... bring 'em up here for (ostensibly, if we're in the running) a shot at the Cup... then after all those years of losing in SJ they win as a Penguin. Sounds like a winning idea to me.

If I had to pick one I'd pick Marleau because he's a more versatile player. Can play LW, C, PP, PK, and still produces at a good level. Also a good guy.

 

[jmelm]

Bonino at a slight overpayment is worth it. He is a known commodity. He does his job in the playoffs.

^ this ^

There are a lot of centre's in the league that are comparable in ability to Bonino (style maybe different though). We are not handcuffed to overpay him because there is "nothing else" out there.

We have options even if that means a trade.

I don't understand why people keep bringing up trade options for KEY positions: a top 2 Dman (Fowler, Trouba, Brodie, etc.) or a 3rd line C that is better than Bonino. Aside from Sprong (who we should not trade), our prospect pool BLOWS.

That doesn't mean I don't believe that certain guys will emerge. ZAR or Archibald could end up being the next Rust and Wilson. (And I believe Wilson will be a 20g/year scorer). Blueger could be a really solid 4th line C (a REALLY important position for a team like ours who could run 4 solid lines and needs that to go deep in the playoffs). Tiffels could be the next Hagelin, and Sundqvist could emerge to be a Backes-lite C. Not all of these guys will pan out, but I like our depth.

That being said and while I like some of that depth, we DO NOT have any blue chip prospects besides Sprong, and no outside team is going to give up a high end Dman or better 3rd line guy than Bonino is for what we have to trade, period. The 1st round pick that we do finally have for the first time in 3 years should be used to take the best Dman available to start replenishing our prospect depth at that position.

Trading what little assets we do have, rather than keeping or signing UFAs, is an absolute must for us as far as asset management.

 

[Peat]

I don't even think Hornqvist will get $5M. He's a great player, but from next season forward he will NOT be playing on a top line role with Sid and will be a (really great) middle 6 forward, and other guys will be getting more ice time and PP time. As such, his numbers may dip. I think we will re-sign him in the range of 4.5-4.75 -- a modest bump from what he's making. We probably give him another year than we should (5 years instead of 4 years) to not only keep the cap hit where it should be, but also keep Hornqvist where he wants to be: in Pittsburgh.

If Lucic get 6m for three seasons of 20 goal 45-60 points prior to Edmonton, I find it unlikely that no one will offer a consistent 20 goal 50 point a season man at least 5m just because of one off-season when taken away from scoring duties.

 

[mpp9]

It sounded like we were in the ball park of landing every major at the deadline. Hanzal, Shattenkirk and Duchene. So JR apparently is willing to spend what big time assets we have and teams apparently are interested in what we have to offer.

If it's a move that makes us a better team beyond next season, I'm down.

 

[Penske]

^ this ^



I don't understand why people keep bringing up trade options for KEY positions: a top 2 Dman (Fowler, Trouba, Brodie, etc.) or a 3rd line C that is better than Bonino. Aside from Sprong (who we should not trade), our prospect pool BLOWS.

That doesn't mean I don't believe that certain guys will emerge. ZAR or Archibald could end up being the next Rust and Wilson. (And I believe Wilson will be a 20g/year scorer). Blueger could be a really solid 4th line C (a REALLY important position for a team like ours who could run 4 solid lines and needs that to go deep in the playoffs). Tiffels could be the next Hagelin, and Sundqvist could emerge to be a Backes-lite C. Not all of these guys will pan out, but I like our depth.

That being said and while I like some of that depth, we DO NOT have any blue chip prospects besides Sprong, and no outside team is going to give up a high end Dman or better 3rd line guy than Bonino is for what we have to trade, period. The 1st round pick that we do finally have for the first time in 3 years should be used to take the best Dman available to start replenishing our prospect depth at that position.

Trading what little assets we do have, rather than keeping or signing UFAs, is an absolute must for us as far as asset management.

We have a lot of good tradable assets to upgrade or change for a better fit.

Maatta, Sheary, Hornqvist, Schultz and the less valuable Hagelin and Fleury.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I don't understand why people keep bringing up trade options for KEY positions: a top 2 Dman (Fowler, Trouba, Brodie, etc.) or a 3rd line C that is better than Bonino. Aside from Sprong (who we should not trade), our prospect pool BLOWS.

That doesn't mean I don't believe that certain guys will emerge. ZAR or Archibald could end up being the next Rust and Wilson. (And I believe Wilson will be a 20g/year scorer). Blueger could be a really solid 4th line C (a REALLY important position for a team like ours who could run 4 solid lines and needs that to go deep in the playoffs). Tiffels could be the next Hagelin, and Sundqvist could emerge to be a Backes-lite C. Not all of these guys will pan out, but I like our depth.

That being said and while I like some of that depth, we DO NOT have any blue chip prospects besides Sprong, and no outside team is going to give up a high end Dman or better 3rd line guy than Bonino is for what we have to trade, period. The 1st round pick that we do finally have for the first time in 3 years should be used to take the best Dman available to start replenishing our prospect depth at that position.

Trading what little assets we do have, rather than keeping or signing UFAs, is an absolute must for us as far as asset management.

We have a lot of good tradable assets to upgrade or change for a better fit.

Maatta, Sheary, Hornqvist, Schultz and the less valuable Hagelin and Fleury.

Exactly. It's not about trading a bunch of blue chip prospects that we don't have in order to land these upgrades, it's about trading veteran pieces we do have that are either redundant or aren't getting full value for a variety of reasons.

We have the pieces. It's just about whether JR is willing to part with some of them since they're (currently) big parts of the team.

 

[Riptide]

I don't understand why people keep bringing up trade options for KEY positions: a top 2 Dman (Fowler, Trouba, Brodie, etc.) or a 3rd line C that is better than Bonino. Aside from Sprong (who we should not trade), our prospect pool BLOWS.

Trading what little assets we do have, rather than keeping or signing UFAs, is an absolute must for us as far as asset management.

Agreed. And while I think there'll be some interesting trade options due to the expansion draft... Some of whom might even be decent #3Cs. BUT unless something falls into our laps - such as trading with LV (or someone else) for a #3C or a FA signing a great contract here just to try and win a cup... But other than that? I'm overpaying to keep Bonino. We need him or someone like him if we want to have a chance to get back here in the next couple of seasons.

 

[AgentM]

I agree. I bought NHL 17 simply to play GM. Hopefully we rap it up tomorrow, celebrate and then let the fun begin.

Haha a man after my own heart. I kept the rosters in NBA Live 95 on my SNES as up to date as possible until like 2001 hahaha

 

[BustaKapanen]

I'm actually highly concerned about center. I've got faith that JR will be successful in retooling the d. He's identified Cole,Schultz, even lovejoy as much as I didn't like it at the time, boy that paid dividends. Move to now, yes hainsey has had some rough patches but oh my we'd be thin without him.

Now let's say bonino and Cullen are gone. These 2 guys take like 80 percent of your dzone draws. Is anyone comfortable with rowney taking a lions share of those duties. I surely am not. I just think someone is gonna throw a boatload at bones, I just see him getting a soderberg+ type deal. And I don't know if it's feasible to pay him that much even with the extra cap space.

 

[BustaKapanen]

Not that there's a whole lot to consider in that area in free agency. I might contemplate Boyle if all other avenues via trade don't work out. I fear LV is gonna be like all the teams trying to reach the floor in years past giving out crazy deals (like scotty upshall that 1 year). Just driving the market price up.

 

[Harvey Birdman]

I wouldn't say that. He's not getting more or substantially more.

I'm going to be surprised if we get him under 5.5m, that's just me. And I'll be happy about getting him under it of course but I don't see him going for very much if at all under 5.5m.

 

[JTG]

I have a gut feeling Botterill goes hard after Flower. He's perfect for that team and that locker room. He's exactly what they need, and they are exactly what he needs.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I have a gut feeling Botterill goes hard after Flower. He's perfect for that team and that locker room. He's exactly what they need, and they are exactly what he needs.

I'll be curious to see what Vegas can get for him

 

[jmelm]

I find it funny when people are complaining and acting like $500K is a deal breaker for Schultz or Bonino. "I would pay him X but if he wants X + $500K he can walk and we'll make a trade instead", etc.


The cap is going up every year -- seriously, who cares? We've got our best guys locked up at very fair prices. And our window to still win is in the next 3-5 years. We have Murray signed for a discount. He's worth $6M, and we're paying him $3.75M. So if we give Bonino a 3-4 year deal and Schultz a 5 year deal and there's slight overpayment, who the **** cares.


I would give Bonino 3 or 4 years times $4M (I would prefer 3 years but will go 4 if necessary, Bones is still young enough for 4).


And I would be thrilled to lock up Schultz for 5-6 years at $5M, but will go $5.5 without thinking twice if that's what it takes.

 

[BustaKapanen]

I find it funny when people are complaining and acting like $500K is a deal breaker for Schultz or Bonino. "I would pay him X but if he wants X + $500K he can walk and we'll make a trade instead", etc.


The cap is going up every year -- seriously, who cares? And our window to still win is in the next 3-5 years. We have Murray signed for a discount. He's worth $6M, and we're paying him $3.75M. So if we give Bonino a 3-4 year deal and Schultz a 5 year deal and there's slight overpayment, who the **** cares.

Considering there's no potential replacement for either in fa I wouldn't mind over payment for both at all. Bones just has all the intangibles that gms and coaches covet pertaining to the post season especially. I could see him getting blown away with an offer. On the other hand considering hopefully he wins b2b cups and is exactly the kind of player a contender wants,and likely will want to be on one. How much can those teams go up to is the question. If Toronto moves bozak/jvr I could picture them coming in pretty heavy. I'm curious to what our threshold Is for retaining him.

 

[JTG]

I find it funny when people are complaining and acting like $500K is a deal breaker for Schultz or Bonino. "I would pay him X but if he wants X + $500K he can walk and we'll make a trade instead", etc.


The cap is going up every year -- seriously, who cares? We've got our best guys locked up at very fair prices. And our window to still win is in the next 3-5 years. We have Murray signed for a discount. He's worth $6M, and we're paying him $3.75M. So if we give Bonino a 3-4 year deal and Schultz a 5 year deal and there's slight overpayment, who the **** cares.


I would give Bonino 3 or 4 years times $4M (I would prefer 3 years but will go 4 if necessary, Bones is still young enough for 4).


And I would be thrilled to lock up Schultz for 5-6 years at $5M, but will go $5.5 without thinking twice if that's what it takes.

My thing with signing Bones and Schultz to big deals are that they have potential to strap the team. Bonino's deal is much less likely, because 4m is the going rate for a guy like him who can play in a multitude of situations, give a team some secondary scoring, and is a big time playoff performer. I have no problem giving Schultz 5.5m, but it's on a 3-4 year deal. Schultz has done what he has for one season. Giving him a huge deal with a bunch of term puts a lot of risk on us, which is why I'd feel way more comfortable going with a 3-4 year deal. I'd ideally like to see both signed for 3 years.

 

[Riptide]

My thing with signing Bones and Schultz to big deals are that they have potential to strap the team. Bonino's deal is much less likely, because 4m is the going rate for a guy like him who can play in a multitude of situations, give a team some secondary scoring, and is a big time playoff performer. I have no problem giving Schultz 5.5m, but it's on a 3-4 year deal. Schultz has done what he has for one season. Giving him a huge deal with a bunch of term puts a lot of risk on us, which is why I'd feel way more comfortable going with a 3-4 year deal. I'd ideally like to see both signed for 3 years.

Schultz will not put up 50+ points next season. Hell I'd be surprised if he puts up 40/45 points next year. But that's less an issue of him and his style of play or how good he'll be and more so the fact that Letang will probably be playing a lot more than 41 games next year. And that said, I'd still pay him 5.5m if I had to. Obviously I'd like to pay him less, but if push came to shove I'd pay him that.

 

[JTG]

Schultz will not put up 50+ points next season. Hell I'd be surprised if he puts up 40/45 points next year. But that's less an issue of him and his style of play or how good he'll be and more so the fact that Letang will probably be playing a lot more than 41 games next year. And that said, I'd still pay him 5.5m if I had to. Obviously I'd like to pay him less, but if push came to shove I'd pay him that.

As I have said, I have no issue paying it, but Schultz would have to make a determination if I were GM. He's not a defenseman that gets term and money - he gets term OR money. Give him 5 years if he comes in under 5. Give him up to 5.5 on a 3 year deal.

 

[Nakawick]

Sundqvist and Pouliot are in a good spot for us. We should be able to get them back on a current Dumo type contract for 2years at 800-850k. That is another reason why we need to keep them. One, hopefully both will be able to have a Rust type of impact. That would be huge for us and could be the difference in winning more cups in the salary cap era.

 

[Tender Rip]

As I have said, I have no issue paying it, but Schultz would have to make a determination if I were GM. He's not a defenseman that gets term and money - he gets term OR money. Give him 5 years if he comes in under 5. Give him up to 5.5 on a 3 year deal.

Schultz gets extra money because he is also our best option on D for the PP, with or without Letang.
With that I would be fine to give him an extra year or two if it keeps salary a bit lower to aid us in the bid to be a Dynasty now. Five years, 5 million per. He might well be able to top that in free agency, but it sets him up for life in a perfect situation team and role wise.

Bonino.... I'd really like to check whats out there first. He is definitely a warrior in the playoffs, but he will never be fast, physical or one to drive posession. The player we saw most of the season certainly is not a 4 million dollar player.

Suppose one thing getting a bit lost is the matter of leadership/personality in the room. Losing MAF, Kunitz, Cullen (likely) and Bones in one go is not a joke, no matter how good we have been at bringing in WBS guys in recent seasons.

 

[Penske]

Sundqvist and Pouliot are in a good spot for us. We should be able to get them back on a current Dumo type contract for 2years at 800-850k. That is another reason why we need to keep them. One, hopefully both will be able to have a Rust type of impact. That would be huge for us and could be the difference in winning more cups in the salary cap era.

The thing with Pouliot though is he has to play or he sits because he has to pass through waivers now. If he's outplayed and can't crack the top 6 he doesn't play at all. He won't get better like that.

If he wants to leave for more opportunity (which I could see being the case) I have no doubt JR will move him on.

Edit: more mean a better situation than he's in with us. Like a Detroit or someone like that.

 

[Penske]

If Schultz is talking 5.5 I'd be trading him for sure.

 

[Nakawick]

The thing with Pouliot though is he has to play or he sits because he has to pass through waivers now. If he's outplayed and can't crack the top 6 he doesn't play at all. He won't get better like that.

If he wants to leave for more opportunity (which I could see being the case) I have no doubt JR will move him on.

Edit: more mean a better situation than he's in with us. Like a Detroit or someone like that.

We can carry him with the team and try him until the deadline before deciding. He really needs to be given an allotment of games to work it through before we should risk or cut bait on him. His cost will be too advantages for us to react too quickly on.