Future Relocation Possibilities

[Hamilton Tigers]

I think the next relocation option will be Quebec City.

Hamilton is the wild card. The Leafs and Sabres have fought the possibility in the past, but with the teachers selling their majority share of MLSE and Pegula now running the Sabres, the situation may have changed.

Add to that the recent talks the city of Hamilton's had with the Katz Entertainment group regarding the procurement of an NHL franchise for Hamilton.

 

[dronald]

Add to that the recent talks the city of Hamilton's had with the Katz Entertainment group regarding the procurement of an NHL franchise for Hamilton.

When was the most recent you have heard anything out of curiosity? I havn't heard anyone mention Katz this year...

 

[Bryan574]

When was the most recent you have heard anything out of curiosity? I havn't heard anyone mention Katz this year...

Four Hamilton councillors meet with boss of Oilers
http://www.thespec.com/print/article/473741

 

[mucker*]

1. Quebec (Because players will want to play here more than Winnipeg)
2. Winnipeg (Thing Winnipeg has is an arena PLUS it will be much easier to configure divisions than Quebec, since we have too many East Coast teams as it stands).

Outside of those two, NHL MUST place a team in pacific NW of the US.
This is the only region in the US without any NHL team.
Seattle would be ideal, but Portland maybe more practical due to facility.
Pick one, move a team there because hockey has some history in the NW (Seattle millionaries 1st US team), the climate isn't like Phoenix which is anti-hockey in terms of weather.

Milwaukee makes no sense. Too small a market, it would cluster divisions, old arena, and the region is already served with Chicago and Minnesota.

It amazes me in the rush to add teams in the sunbelt, the NHL totally skipped over the much more lucrative NW which has the money, a more stable, less transient base, and is more naturally fit for hockey.

The only sport without a franchise in the NW is the NHL.
Why have a team in the dessert SW or 8 in the sunbelt but none in the NW?
Makes no sense.

 

[dronald]

Seattle would be ideal, but Portland maybe more practical due to facility.
Pick one, move a team there because hockey has some history in the NW (Seattle millionaries 1st US team), the climate isn't like Phoenix which is anti-hockey in terms of weather.

This one I dont quite get, only because half of my family is from Portland. (I'm half American) And ive asked my Mom what Hockey was like for her growing up, and she said that no one really cared about Hockey. Almost all of my cousins are from Oregon and we travel to Seattle all the time, and it's the same thing, whenever I bring up Hockey they talk to me like it's not a real sport... I just dont think people are interested in Oregon from personal experience with family, but I could be wrong.

 

[Puckschmuck*]

1. Quebec (Because players will want to play here more than Winnipeg)

If you are specifically referring to Quebecois players, then yes I'll agree with you

 

[blueandgoldguy]

Four Hamilton councillors meet with boss of Oilers
http://www.thespec.com/print/article/473741

Just scare tactics on his part to get the process moving along faster in Edmonton.

 

[Jeffrey93]

Just scare tactics on his part to get the process moving along faster in Edmonton.

Scare tactics would be discussing a lease arrangement with the City. He was discussing managing all of the City's facilities and paying the City a million dollars if he can't lure an NHL team to the City by a certain date.

AEG was also involved.

This seemed to me to be more like current NHL Owners getting in on this from the inside....gives the league more control and prevents any possibility of somebody going 'rogue' and trying to hijack a team and put it in Hamilton (current owner or potential...like Balsillie).

If the arena deal fell/falls through in Edmonton I would think Katz would be looking to Hamilton regardless. It seems to be what people do. If the team has to threaten relocation....there are few instantly ready options...

Some of this seemed to hinge on where the new stadium would be built. Since Hamilton City Council got rail-roaded by Tiger-Cats Owner Bob Young...they are now over-hauling the existing stadium...so Katz might be less interested....or more....who knows.

 

[Jesus Christ Horburn]

Add to that the recent talks the city of Hamilton's had with the Katz Entertainment group regarding the procurement of an NHL franchise for Hamilton.

Agreed, I think it's a step in the right direction brainstorming with Katz.

However, I can't imagine for one second that the Oilers would move to Hamilton.

 

[knorthern knight]

To repeat what I said in another thread I don't see a Saskatchewan or Montreal 2 team working.

• Saskatchewan's problem is that it doesn't have enough population in one city. Wikipedia gives metro populations as Saskatoon 265,259 and Regina 194,971 from the 2006 census. Still under half a million. If they weren't 260 km apart, i.e. a 3 hour drive in the summer, it would be a different story. Reginans would have to take the afternoon off work to take in a weeknight game in Saskatoon. Forget about bringing the kids along, unless they skip classes in the afternoon. And do you REALLY want to do a 260 km drive starting at 9:30 or 10:00 PM, at minus 30 C in the dark of night in the middle of winter, getting home around 1:00 or 2:00 AM in the morning, and then going to work or school a few hours later? So you're stuck with Saskatoon's metro population of under 300,000 as your main fan base.
• A 2nd Montreal team is not viable. The Montreal Maroons appealed to the Anglophone community, which is much diminished over the past 75 years.

The only realistic options in Canada are Winnipeg, Quebec, and Hamilton. Hamilton needs a new arena, and ABB (Anybody But Balsillie) as the owner. There are several possibilities in the USA. Kansas City and Cleveland have had disastrous experiences in the NHL approx 30 years ago, but Houston did OK in the WHA.

Teams to be moved look like...

• Phoenix
• Atlanta
• Miami

 

[Jeffrey93]

To repeat what I said in another thread I don't see a Saskatchewan or Montreal 2 team working.


The only realistic options in Canada are Winnipeg, Quebec, and Hamilton. Hamilton needs a new arena, and ABB (Anybody But Balsillie) as the owner. There are several possibilities in the USA. Kansas City and Cleveland have had disastrous experiences in the NHL approx 30 years ago, but Houston did OK in the WHA.

Teams to be moved look like...

• Phoenix
• Atlanta
• Miami

It is kind of weird that most agree there are 3 markets in Canada that could support an NHL team....and there are always 3 teams in the NHL that look like they are on the brink of failure.

If the NHL is going to let the Coyotes go back to Winnipeg....it's too bad they didn't plan it out better so they could do multiple moves at one time. I think it would look better on the league if they shuffled several teams at once...then didn't have anything to worry about for many years....instead of constantly putting out fires on many fronts for many years.

 

[Jeffrey93]

Agreed, I think it's a step in the right direction brainstorming with Katz.

However, I can't imagine for one second that the Oilers would move to Hamilton.

Katz also had 'brain-storming' sessions with folks in Quebec. There was no plan to manage the facilities or anything like that though. Which makes me believe his interest in Hamilton was different. Nothing to do with the arena in Edmonton getting built. More to do with getting before anyone else and profiting from that down the road.

 

[dj4aces]

Aren't the Panthers tied to the arena? Also, their owners don't sound like they want to sell.

 

[Jeffrey93]

Aren't the Panthers tied to the arena? Also, their owners don't sound like they want to sell.

I looked into them before....memory is foggy though. The arena is a huge deal. I think by managing the arena they make enough that owning the Panthers is somewhat worthwhile. If memory serves....which it may not....part of their management rights is having the Panthers there. I could be totally wrong...but I recall the arena making so much that the Panthers were basically a sideshow.

Somebody else can probably enlighten us better...but I believe that the group down there has kept the Panthers so far because of the arena. It seems logical that if they could drop the Panthers and retain the arena revenues they would...

 

[danishh]

It is kind of weird that most agree there are 3 markets in Canada that could support an NHL team.

I know winnipeg has an owner and an arena. Quebec has an owner and an arena project.

no clue what this third market you're talking about is though.

 

[Bryan574]

I know winnipeg has an owner and an arena. Quebec has an owner and an arena project.

no clue what this third market you're talking about is though.

I'll give ya a clue, Its the only place with a unused 18,000 seat arena that can work perfectly in the short term or if inclined to cut costs can be renovated quite easly , access to part of the biggest unserved hockey market in the world S Ont while at the same time having their own identity in the market , and has had on record three different millionaires in the last 3 years interested in owning or being part of a team there.

 

[Blacksheep71]

Omaha, Nebraska a possible option

Considering all of the possible areas that might get a team, a number have problems.

In Canada, Winnipeg's arena is very small and not easily expandable. Any fall off in attendance and they'd be in trouble. Hamilton would have to spend maybe $200m to upgrade the Copps and face objections from Toronto and Buffalo. Quebec doesn't yet have the arena, and if the possible corporate owners decided to change direction, they could easily be in difficulty again.

South of the border, Seattle's NBA arena was costed at $500m (!!), Paul Allen might not want a team using the Rose Garden and taking business from the Trailblazers unless its his team, KC did nothing to help their cause with mediocre attendance when the Islanders played there. In Houston the NHL would be the 4th of 4 major league sport teams

Omaha could be a destination though

1) A hockey history dating back to the '30s with the Knights
2) Very good fans interest with the Lancers, Stars and Storm all having good support in the USHL
3) An arena ready to use - Qwest Civic Center, 16,680 seats
4) No competing major league sports teams
5) A possible billionaire owner in Warren Buffett who recently invested in the local minor-league team

and Bettman could still say the team was moving to a new area

 

[Killion]

I know winnipeg has an owner and an arena. Quebec has an owner and an arena project........no clue what this third market you're talking about is though.

I'll give ya a clue Its the only place with a unused 18,000 seat arena that can work perfectly in the short term or if inclined to cut costs can be renovated quite easly , access to part of the biggest unserved hockey market in the world S Ont while having their own identity in the market , and has had on record three different millionaires in last 3 years interested in owning or being part of a team there.

Hamilton as you well know has had an arena for 26yrs, one that was constructed quite specifically as a shell within which major alterations can be completed for roughly half the cost of a brand new building sitting in an absolutely prime downtown location. The site lines for hockey are superb; re-config's for concerts & events a snap. Youve got ease of access with one-ways surrounding Copps; adjacent hotels; an airport. Secondly, a team would bring much needed revitilization to the downtown core; money & jobs. Beyond Ron Joyce in the 80's & Balsillie's attempts, I have heard (rumored) of 4 additional parties who have done a considerable amount of due diligence in testing the waters'. No point in naming them, as thats as far as its gotten & anything further is purely speculative, unlike QC & Wpg where the players can be named. At worst, Hamilton would be in the company of an Ottawa or Calgary in terms of economic performance; though more realistically I would put it on par with Vancouver or San Jose', possibly even surpassing those teams. Though I do believe that Wpg/QC are more than viable, Hamilton is a far superior market. If clear, cold calculating reason had been used, wouldve happened in 1990. Instead, we have 2 decades of wasted opportunity & God only knows how much money lost in warehousing a gem like Hamilton.

 

[peter sullivan]

i would think that if the NHL decided to allow another team in the golden horseshoe there would be more than 4 group clamouring to the table....i personally believe that there would be many more profitable locations than hamilton in the area, but hamilton would do just fine.

the big question is will the NHL allow it.....it isnt a simple case of will it work....copps would have had a team long ago, if it were not an hour away from where the leafs play.

 

[Killion]

South of the border, Seattle's NBA arena was costed at $500m (!!), Paul Allen might not want a team using the Rose Garden and taking business from the Trailblazers unless its his team, KC did nothing to help their cause with mediocre attendance when the Islanders played there. In Houston the NHL would be the 4th of 4 major league sport teams

Omaha could be a destination though

1) A hockey history dating back to the '30s with the Knights
2) Very good fans interest with the Lancers, Stars and Storm all having good support in the USHL
3) An arena ready to use - Qwest Civic Center, 16,680 seats
4) No competing major league sports teams
5) A possible billionaire owner in Warren Buffett who recently invested in the local minor-league team

No, no taxpayer appetite to fund an arena in Seattle; Portland is possible as Allen employs several ex-NHL team exec's who may be making a case to him for bringing in a franchise; I doubt very much if the NHL would hold off on KC if an owner wanted to move a team there however obviously they dont appear to have anyone soliciting to buy for relo; Houston would be great & could still happen; we discussed Austin as a possibility as well, a very intriguing market to say the least. Omaha's an interesting suggestion, your case for it well reasoned. MoreOrr also suggested one that caught many by surprise, myself included; Tulsa. Omaha & Tulsa would be a natural rivalry. Do you know if the corporate sectors in those markets are large enough to support NHL pricing?.

 

[HamiltonFan]

I'll give ya a clue Its the only place with a unused 18,000 seat arena that can work perfectly in the short term or if inclined to cut costs can be renovated quite easly , access to part of the biggest unserved hockey market in the world S Ont while having their own identity in the market , and has had on record three different millionaires in last 3 years interested in owning or being part of a team there.

Don't forget the ones that we don't hear about, the ones that get rejected behind that lying weasel bettman's closed door. Just because we don't hear about it here, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Most potential Southern Ontario owners will approach little gary, little gary will politely say no, then the potential owner will quietly slip away, and nobody (the public) will know that anything ever happened. This is called 'playing by the nhl's rules'. Occasionally, a potential suitor will have the 'gall' to call out little gary, and go public, in an attempt to shake up the Southern Ontario stalemate that little gary (and of course his merry BOGs) has created behind closed doors. When this happens, many of the so called 'experts' here will cry foul, and say that the culprit, let's call him JB, is a rogue, and doesn't play by nhl rules. Well, guess what? Can't have it both ways.
If bettman and the bog's were to publicly announce that they were allowing another team in Southern Ontario, there would be no shortage of potential owners wanting a piece of the action.

As for the people around here who say that JB will never get an nhl team, that's only true as it applies to Hamilton. If Bill Gates and Warren Buffet said they wanted to co-own a team in Hamilton, little gary would tell them to go fly a kite.
If JB said he wanted a team for houston or any other city in the USA (and keep it there), then he'd have a team faster than you can say 'bettman is an arrogant, pompous, mischievous, lying little runt of a weasel'.

 

[peter sullivan]

^agreed.

 

[HamiltonFan]

Considering all of the possible areas that might get a team, a number have problems.

In Canada, Winnipeg's arena is very small and not easily expandable. Any fall off in attendance and they'd be in trouble. Hamilton would have to spend maybe $200m to upgrade the Copps and face objections from Toronto and Buffalo. Quebec doesn't yet have the arena, and if the possible corporate owners decided to change direction, they could easily be in difficulty again.

South of the border, Seattle's NBA arena was costed at $500m (!!), Paul Allen might not want a team using the Rose Garden and taking business from the Trailblazers unless its his team, KC did nothing to help their cause with mediocre attendance when the Islanders played there. In Houston the NHL would be the 4th of 4 major league sport teams

Omaha could be a destination though

1) A hockey history dating back to the '30s with the Knights
2) Very good fans interest with the Lancers, Stars and Storm all having good support in the USHL
3) An arena ready to use - Qwest Civic Center, 16,680 seats
4) No competing major league sports teams
5) A possible billionaire owner in Warren Buffett who recently invested in the local minor-league team

and Bettman could still say the team was moving to a new area

Buffet only invests in enterprises that make money. He wouldn't touch an Omaha nhl team with a zillion foot pole.

 

[Killion]

i would think that if the NHL decided to allow another team in the golden horseshoe there would be more than 4 group clamouring to the table....i personally believe that there would be many more profitable locations than hamilton in the area, but hamilton would do just fine.

the big question is will the NHL allow it.....it isnt a simple case of will it work....copps would have had a team long ago, if it were not an hour away from where the leafs play.

Oh for sure, if they opened it up & went public with an offering, the NHL would likely receive a dozen or more offers for Hamilton.... I dont know "where else" your suggesting peter, as every other location would bring with it a whole new set of problems and costs. Downsview, Mississauga & Vaughan have all been mentioned, a good case made for them, but IMO impracticable. Many disagree with me of course, as is their right..... As for the NHL allowing it, as we know, Gary Bettmans claims the league has every right to put a team in Hamilton; MLSE claiming the opposite. Clearly, through the Smythe, Ballard, Stavro's & MLSE era's, that position has remained unchanged. With the sale of MLSE pending & the recent sale in Buffalo of the Sabers, it may well change and or be forced upon them whether they like it or not.

 

[peter sullivan]

^ cops is a write off at this point....any new team will require a new building....

hamilton will work of course but if it were my money, i'd want it to be located in a more prosperous part of the horseshoe....hamilton is the least affluent city in the entire region...it also has a large enough population and a strong enough character and history that the team will be identified with hamilton directly...if i were an owner i would want to have a team that represented all of southern ontario....put the arena in a smaller centre like kingston and you have less affiliation to hamilton and more with the greater region.....

the best of course would be GTA like mississauga or something, but barring that i would brand a new team as southern ontario's team....hamilton might not be able to do that because it has a pretty strong 'steeltown' identity of its own that people in other centres might not identify with.

would people in guelph, kitchener, london identify with a Hamilton Steelers franchise?...maybe, but the real money isnt the 700k people in hamilton...its the cities that surround it....locating and branding the team accordingly opens a bigger market in my opinion.

maybe im off base...i dont know southern ontario all that well.