Future of the Calgary Flames

[Baxterman]

Nothing the OP said is wrong.

I think OP is right on every comment.

Nothing the OP said is wrong?

He said look at their key players and then listed two guys ignoring the two actual key players in Gaudreau and Monahan and many others who are equally as key like Hanifin, Tkachuk, Brodie etc. because it blows his moronic window is closing before it opens argument out of the water.

He states that Monahan is a #2C. He may not be an elite #1 but he is a no doubt #1 center probably around 15th in the league if you ranked them.

He then talks about having no talent under 25 focusing on Bennett. It might not be the best in the league but Monahan, Lindholm, Hanifin, Tkachuk, Bennettm Gaudreau is certainly not "not very much."

I agree that Gaudreau could be a threat to leave but considering his moronic point is the window is closing before it opens worrying about something 4 years down the line seems pretty pointless. He himself references three years when talking about the under 25 guys. It is just another BS argument because his original premise is crap.

The he says that the team is going to be bad for a long time. Based on what? The next statement he says they aren't going to be bad enough to get a top pick.

Look I have concerns about whether they can get to be a top level contender but to act as though they don't have a clear window for the next 3-4 years at least is just silly. To try and paint a doom and gloom situation is over the top and based on basically nothing at all. If you take his points on the Flames and are that critical and loose with the truth you likely can paint the same picture for 75% of the league and then flip new arguments for the other 25% to explain why they are in trouble.

It was an odd take to start with and then it developed into a poster twisting facts and ignoring the actual roster to try and fit things into his flawed premise at the start, so no the OP was not right on every comment and he certainly did say many things that are wrong.

 

[Baxterman]

I do not agree with @Kamiccolo that the flames will be bad for years and their entering a circle of decline. They have too many good pieces for that.

I also don't think things will be getting much better for Calgary. They don't have a lot of legitimate talent coming up the pipeline, and building around 2 great wingers isn't a recipe for success.
They have holes and weaknesses now, and they'll have holes and weaknesses in the future that will hurt them.
To win a cup/ go far in the playoffs, you either need great center depth with elite top end talent, or great defensive depth with elite top end talent.
The flames have neither.

I'd wager that the flames will finish in the 10-20 range in the standings for most of the next 5 seasons. Thus the eternal cycle of mediocrity.

Which two great wingers did they build around?

As for having holes? Welcome to the salary cap NHL. Even the great multiple Cup winning Maple Leafs have holes on their super roster.

 

[Advanced stats]

Which two great wingers did they build around?

As for having holes? Welcome to the salary cap NHL. Even the great multiple Cup winning Maple Leafs have holes on their super roster.

You're currently building around tkackuck and Gaudreau.

Listen man, I'm not hating. Just saying it how I see it. Now obviously you can go deep in the playoffs with some holes, but not the holes that Calgary has. Big critical missing pieces.

 

[Baxterman]

You're currently building around tkackuck and Gaudreau.

Listen man, I'm not hating. Just saying it how I see it. Now obviously you can go deep in the playoffs with some holes, but not the holes that Calgary has. Big critical missing pieces.

They are building around Monahan as much as those 2.

What big critical pieces are they missing.

 

[Rangediddy]

Aside from the last part, thank for actually giving a proper response. I do not agree with everything you posted here, but I can see your point about some things. I will type up a better response shortly when I am able to.

Please don't.

 

[Advanced stats]

They are building around Monahan as much as those 2.

What big critical pieces are they missing.

Fair enough. I don't think Monahan is a good enough 1c to build around though.

I know you'll disagree, but this is just my opinion.
-this year your you're lacking top end centers. Monahan - Backlund - Bennett? Is not an intimidating trio.
- as early as next season you'll be looking for a starting goalie.
- the season following you'll probably be looking for a #1D

It's a tough spot to be in, and I definitely cheer for Calgary in West coast games. And maybe you're right... Maybe rittich/ Gilles can be a starter. Maybe Hanafin can be a #1D. I'm skeptical though and in that case it's tough to accuire those big pieces that you'll be looking for very shortly.

 

[Tkachuky]

Fair enough. I don't think Monahan is a good enough 1c to build around though.

I know you'll disagree, but this is just my opinion.
-this year your you're lacking top end centers. Monahan - Backlund - Bennett? Is not an intimidating trio.
- as early as next season you'll be looking for a starting goalie.
- the season following you'll probably be looking for a #1D

It's a tough spot to be in, and I definitely cheer for Calgary in West coast games. And maybe you're right... Maybe rittich/ Gilles can be a starter. Maybe Hanafin can be a #1D. I'm skeptical though and in that case it's tough to accuire those big pieces that you'll be looking for very shortly.

A 23 year old 30G 30A Monahan is so underrated around here its insane.

Pace is not the best stat to use I get that, but he really was likely to finish with 70+ points this year.

Let me ask you a question. What if Monahan becomes a consistent 75-PPG guy. Does that change your view on him?

 

[Advanced stats]

A 23 year old 30G 30A Monahan is so underrated around here its insane.

Pace is not the best stat to use I get that, but he really was likely to finish with 70+ points this year.

Let me ask you a question. What if Monahan becomes a consistent 75-PPG guy. Does that change your view on him?

Yes absolutely. Even if he could hit 70 points consistently or 75 points a couple times in the next 5 years I'd change my mind.

Hes 24 when the season starts though, so in his prime now. Just had 4 surgeries as well, so I'm skeptical. But if it happens? Absolutely an average 1c in that case.

 

[Tkachuky]

Yes absolutely. Even if he could hit 70 points consistently or 75 points a couple times in the next 5 years I'd change my mind.

Hes 24 when the season starts though, so in his prime now. Just had 4 surgeries as well, so I'm skeptical. But if it happens? Absolutely an average 1c in that case.

I'm expecting him to crack 70 next season and finish around 72-75 Points. I think our PP will improve (it really cannot get any worse than now). Lindholm/Neal on his wing should also bring more points than having Ferland/Brouwer in that spot.

 

[Advanced stats]

I'm expecting him to crack 70 next season and finish around 72-75 Points. I think our PP will improve (it really cannot get any worse than now). Lindholm/Neal on his wing should also bring more points than having Ferland/Brouwer in that spot.

Dead serious here...
You expect 40 point Neal/Lindholm to be a big improvement over 40 point Ferland? Self admittedly I love Ferland, so Im not sure I see a big difference.

Is Monahan expected to be 100% for training camp?

 

[Tkachuky]

Dead serious here...
You expect 40 point Neal/Lindholm to be a big improvement over 40 point Ferland? Self admittedly I love Ferland, so Im not sure I see a big difference.

Is Monahan expected to be 100% for training camp?

Ferland is not a 20G guy. I will be shocked if he gets 20+ again next season.

I absolutely expect Neal/Lindholm to play with Johnny and Monahan and get more Goals/Points than Ferland.

I think that having him shut down earlier last season puts him on track to be 100% for season start in October. I thought I read somewhere that the surgeries were successful. (someone correct me if I am wrong)

 

[Baxterman]

Fair enough. I don't think Monahan is a good enough 1c to build around though.

I know you'll disagree, but this is just my opinion.
-this year your you're lacking top end centers. Monahan - Backlund - Bennett? Is not an intimidating trio.
- as early as next season you'll be looking for a starting goalie.
- the season following you'll probably be looking for a #1D

It's a tough spot to be in, and I definitely cheer for Calgary in West coast games. And maybe you're right... Maybe rittich/ Gilles can be a starter. Maybe Hanafin can be a #1D. I'm skeptical though and in that case it's tough to accuire those big pieces that you'll be looking for very shortly.

I do disagree about Monahan he may not be an elite top C but he is no doubt a #1C and he is better than both Gaudreau and Tkachuk so if we are not building around him then I guess we aren't building around anything.

I think Gio has another year or two at being a #1 guy, again not an elite #1 but a top pairing guy none the less. I also have big hopes for Hanifin and with Brodie and Hamonic the defensive depth is pretty good.

Yes we do need a better goalie option but again that isn't a critical hole.

I disagree with the center depth but that is in part because the center depth isn't Monahan, backlund Bennett as you suggest. Bennett is almost assuredly a winger, for this season at least. I think at worst we are looking at Monahan-Backlund-Ryan-Jankowski and if he can move to center Monahan-Lindholm-Backlund-Jankowski that second group is very good and the first group is fine. Center is certainly not an area of concern at all for the Flames.

 

[Baxterman]

Dead serious here...
You expect 40 point Neal/Lindholm to be a big improvement over 40 point Ferland? Self admittedly I love Ferland, so Im not sure I see a big difference.

Is Monahan expected to be 100% for training camp?

Ferland was a 40 point guy solely because of Monahan and Gaudreau if he doesn't have other guys to totally create the offense for him he isn't close to 20 goals and 40 points.

Neal already has shown a lot more offense than Ferland and both Neal and Lindholm are huge upgrades in terms of being able to bring more to the line than just leeching off the other two. They will be a huge upgrade over Ferland.

 

[ESH]

He did finish with 84. Here's something perhaps more tangible -- he was second in scoring for the vast majority of the season.

Also lol how many Leafs fans bring up how many points Auston Matthews was "on pace for" last year. I guess the reality is that he's a 60-point player.

No he wasn’t. He was 2nd in scoring for maybe about a week or two.

 

[blankall]

I can't see the Flames making playoffs personally. They're in that very ugly place of no-man's land. No game-breaking talent on the roster whatsoever. And no, I don't believe Gaudreau is any sort of game-breaker.

Gaudreau, Giordano, and Tkachuk are all capable of taking over games and do it frequently. Gaudreau frequently has multi point nights and is one of the best playmakers in the league.

The Flames were in a playoff spot last year until Monahan and Smith got serious injuries. They've improved this year. Saying they are or are not a lock to make the playoffs is one thing. But saying you "can't see it" is absurd.

 

[Kahvi]

Yes absolutely. Even if he could hit 70 points consistently or 75 points a couple times in the next 5 years I'd change my mind.

Hes 24 when the season starts though, so in his prime now. Just had 4 surgeries as well, so I'm skeptical. But if it happens? Absolutely an average 1c in that case.

Two ways to look at this. He was able to pull of the season he did, even though he played through injuries that needed 4 surgeries. So just watch out when he gets healthy

 

[madmike77]

I think they'll be fine. They've got plenty of good young pieces to work around.

Worst-case scenario - if they don't have success they can eventually tear things down and trade those pieces for a premium. I really don't see any cause for doom and gloom.

 

[tmurfin]

Dead serious here...
You expect 40 point Neal/Lindholm to be a big improvement over 40 point Ferland? Self admittedly I love Ferland, so Im not sure I see a big difference.

Is Monahan expected to be 100% for training camp?

Ferlands best season ever, playing and gaining chemistry with an elite duo, is just on par with Lindolm and Neals norms. So yes. It is fully expected that they will be much better options.

 

[djpatm]

No he wasn’t. He was 2nd in scoring for maybe about a week or two.

He was in the top 3 for most of the season.

 

[AveryStar4Eva]

I don’t think there window is closing. Giordano is getting up there in age yes, but I do think he’s a player who can play well into his late 30’s as he’s very physically fit and doesn’t take a beating throughout the season.

On paper with the additions of Neal, Lindholm, and Hanafin they are looking better than ever.

 

[Canada Drai]

it's annoying when fans of other teams start threads about how much the Leafs suck, so I can only imagine Calgary fans feel the same way about this

Imagine how Oilers fans feel.... it's all fine though. It's a message board. You have to expect a bunch of trolling and recency bias.

 

[Dack]

Gio is so good and so f***ing underrated.

 

[mattydamon]

Flames are an interesting team - I think the cycle of mediocrity (bubble team) should be on the way out. Last year they looked great for stretches but totally mentally collapsed. I feel like if their young guys can improve on their trajectories even slightly and they can get themselves in the right headspace, they can absolutely make the playoffs and maybe even win a round. I could see this team as a perennial playoff team for sure.

What I find harder to visualize though is this team as a cup contender - to me they just don't have the pieces to reach that final level. It's not easy to win the cup though and I definitely think they are a pretty good team and should be going forward.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Johnny Gaudreau outscored Auston Matthews by 21 points last year. Auston Matthews has never won a playoff series.

I like how you ignore the fact he also played 18 more games

Can't include that, it would hurt your narrative

 

[CraigsList]

I like how you ignore the fact he also played 18 more games

Can't include that, it would hurt your narrative

You guys would be stat picking too to fit your narrative.