Future of the Calgary Flames

[Kamiccolo]

They have been a bubble team for years now it seems. However it seems like their "Window" might be closing before it was ever opened. Look at their most important players

- Gio going to be 35, no replacement for him. Brodie is not a #1 D and showed that last year. Hanifin is not going to be a #1 D. The replacement was going to be Hamilton but they inexplicably traded him away for going to museums.

- Mike Smith. Going to be 36 and injury prone. When in net he is good but how many games will he play? And when he either breaks down or retires in the next few years, they will be in a bad spot. Mike Smith is the closest they have come to replacing Kipper and the trend of stop gaps will likely continue into the future.

These two pieces declining over the next few years are going to sink the roster. Now, this is not to say that they do not have good pieces that are young. Mohahan is a solid 2nd line C, Tkachuk is a beauty. After that though? They have Gaudreau, who's future is questionable within the next few years as well as he approaches UFA. If Calgary keeps being a bubble team, we may see the next Tavares like situation, evidenced by this article by Sportsnet.

Flames' Gaudreau open to playing for hometown Flyers in future - Sportsnet.ca

"Calgary Flames winger Johnny Gaudreau, who grew up just outside of Philadelphia in Carneys Point, N.J., is apparently open to returning home to suit up for his boyhood club at some point in his career. The 23-year-old discussed the potential homecoming during an interview with a Philadelphia radio station "

Their depth isn't very much either when you consider those under 25 (As this thread is about in three years when the core guys have all left the team) there is not much there highlighted by a bust Bennett.

Their prospect pool is not much better, Ranked 29th in the entire NHL by the athletic.

This is a team that is going to be bad for a very long time in the coming years. They will not be bad enough to get any good picks and not be good enough to ever win more than a playoff round. This is going to be an organization with a few good pieces, but poor depth, no top end players, and a mediocre prospect cupboard. They will be a basement team for a very long time.

Do you agree or do you think they are able to replace these core pieces? With the lottery the way it is they might sneak a top 3 pick, but the chances are not great.

Click to read more...

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

it's annoying when fans of other teams start threads about how much the Leafs suck, so I can only imagine Calgary fans feel the same way about this

 

[CaptainCrunch67]

This op post is just dumb.

Its pretty much just here to aggravate Flames fans, [mod] with half truths and no truths sprinkled through it

Gaudreau's under contract for 4 more years, and if that passes and they trade him the return will be good enough to fuel a rebuild

The Flames core group of players outside of Gio is very young. they have four players over the age of 30 and two of them are at 30.

Players under 25, Gaudreau, Monahan, Bennett, Jankowski, Tkatchuk, Lindholm, Hanifan, Kulak

They've improved their bottom 6 depth, and improve their top 6 depth, their blueline while slightly weaker then last year is still deep enough. Smith is probably the biggest worry, but performed well last year, and goalies tend to stay for longer

Chances are even if Parsons, or Gilles isn't ready that there are other goalies out there.

The whole Athletic thing is whatever but the flames have some pretty good prospects especially on the blueline. The reason why the Athletic has them at 29th is because the Flames have graduated a lot of players.

Their window isn't closing that fast.

 

[Albus Dumbledore]

what alternative is there then not to compete?

they have far too many good-elite pieces that are young, cant just go tank mode with good assets like that.
Who knows they could hit a draft gem or two and be contender for all we know, or maybe they area a bubble team for the next 5 years. Imo play it out, try your best and see what happens.

 

[Schenn]

So many people are down on Hanifin. I still think he has the ability to be a #1. The dude is only 21. Give him a few years and I think he surprises a lot of people.

 

[Kamiccolo]

[mod]

Gaudreau's under contract for 4 more years, and if that passes and they trade him the return will be good enough to fuel a rebuild

They likely wouldn't move him until it became apparent at the deadline he wouldn't re-sign.

The Flames core group of players outside of Gio is very young. they have four players over the age of 30 and two of them are at 30.

I am talking about a few years out. All those players will be in their 30's and declining outside of those I mentioned in the OP.

Players under 25, Gaudreau, Monahan, Bennett, Jankowski, Tkatchuk, Lindholm, Hanifan, Kulak

One of those guys just cleared waivers, another is a bust. I am just saying outside of their first liners Gaudreau, Monahan, and Tkatchuk, that is an unimpressive u25 group.

They've improved their bottom 6 depth, and improve their top 6 depth, their blueline while slightly weaker then last year is still deep enough. Smith is probably the biggest worry, but performed well last year, and goalies tend to stay for longer

Chances are even if Parsons, or Gilles isn't ready that there are other goalies out there.

The whole Athletic thing is whatever but the flames have some pretty good prospects especially on the blueline. The reason why the Athletic has them at 29th is because the Flames have graduated a lot of players.

Their window isn't closing that fast.

Their bottom 6 is improved but still not very good, and still not a good outlook in the next few years. Their blue line has no #1 D emerging and no one to take over for Gio. Like I said in the OP, I am not saying they will have no good players, but it doesn't look good.

 

[Kamiccolo]

what alternative is there then not to compete?

they have far too many good-elite pieces that are young, cant just go tank mode with good assets like that.
Who knows they could hit a draft gem or two and be contender for all we know, or maybe they area a bubble team for the next 5 years. Imo play it out, try your best and see what happens.

They need to stop spinning their tires and pick a direction. In this case a rebuild. They trade their first for a win now move and then trade a prime aged D for a younger one. They can't make up their minds. They should sell off these guys and recoup their value as best as possible and retool over the next few years.

 

[Albus Dumbledore]

They need to stop spinning their tires and pick a direction. In this case a rebuild. They trade their first for a win now move and then trade a prime aged D for a younger one. They can't make up their minds. They should sell off these guys and recoup their value as best as possible and retool over the next few years.

well i know hockey is a business but it isnt easy to just trade gio away for example, like thanks for all your hard work but bye... that and the some dmen are playing well late into their careers, look no further then chara, i could see gio playing well for a few years longer.

 

[Wayne Primeau]

Ok, so let me quickly respond.

- Giordano isn't getting any younger. You're totally and completely right. You're also right about Brodie's regression over the past two seasons. However, that's where your correctness stops. Dougie Hamilton was never going to be able to replace Mark Giordano as the Flames' #1 defenseman. He's simply nowhere near the all-around player that Giordano is. His ineptitude in his own zone, his penchant for taking some of the most unnecessary penalties imaginable, and his streaky offensive play go a long way to negate his alleged strengths, like his size and scoring. Hamilton doesn't use his size effectively. He also scores a lot of his points in meaningless situations. When the Flames went ice cold down the stretch, Hamilton was the only one scoring, but he couldn't get the Flames over the hump when they were playing more competitively and could have really used that one extra goal in certain situations.

- Playing with Mark Giordano drastically masked Hamilton's many, many flaws. However, Hamilton has never been able to carry a pair in Calgary. The attempted Brodie - Hamilton pair was absolutely atrocious in 2015-16, and he was unable to play with the likes of Brett Kulak or Jyrki Jokipakka with any form of success either. He's not like Mark Giordano, in that he is utterly incompetent at elevating other players. His success in Calgary stemmed almost entirely upon Giordano's support, much in the same vein that Brodie's success did from 2013 - 2016.

- It seems a little disingenuous to write off Noah Hanifin as a possible Giordano replacement, considering that he is only 21 and coming off an All-Star season. Hanifin is a player who's largely unknown in Calgary -- admittedly, I've watched very little of him -- but his draft pedigree and apparent improvement each season seem to look favourably upon his continued progression. He's literally 14 years younger than Giordano.

- Calling Sean Monahan a "solid 2nd line centre" is utter codswallop. Find me another 2C who scored at a P/GP pace for the vast majority of last season before being injured to the extent of requiring FOUR offseason surgeries. Monahan has scored thirty goals twice in the NHL and has more goals than Jarome Iginla did at his age. The notion of him not being anything other than a 1C is just garbage, and he's still just 24.

- Mike Smith is old, you're right. This is the Flames' single biggest problem, and I agree that it needs to be addressed. But he's still a damn good goaltender and in a league where goaltenders don't have a ton of trade value, he should be easy enough to replace in the interim before Calgary can find a #1 like they did with Kiprusoff.

- Johnny Gaudreau might leave in four years. That's the equivalent of saying that Taylor Hall might sign in Calgary in two years because he'll be a UFA from Calgary. In the meantime, Calgary has a top-5 left-winger who was second in league scoring for the majority of last season before his #1C got hurt.

To conclude, OP, your post is utter garbage seeking to be nothing but incendiary vitriol.

 

[Kamiccolo]

well i know hockey is a business but it isnt easy to just trade gio away for example, like thanks for all your hard work but bye... that and the some dmen are playing well late into their careers, look no further then chara, i could see gio playing well for a few years longer.

The Rangers did exactly that. Put out a letter to the fans and traded long time favorites. It can be done.

 

[Kamiccolo]

Ok, so let me quickly respond.

- Giordano isn't getting any younger. You're totally and completely right. You're also right about Brodie's regression over the past two seasons. However, that's where your correctness stops. Dougie Hamilton was never going to be able to replace Mark Giordano as the Flames' #1 defenseman. He's simply nowhere near the all-around player that Giordano is. His ineptitude in his own zone, his penchant for taking some of the most unnecessary penalties imaginable, and his streaky offensive play go a long way to negate his alleged strengths, like his size and scoring. Hamilton doesn't use his size effectively. He also scores a lot of his points in meaningless situations. When the Flames went ice cold down the stretch, Hamilton was the only one scoring, but he couldn't get the Flames over the hump when they were playing more competitively and could have really used that one extra goal in certain situations.

- Playing with Mark Giordano drastically masked Hamilton's many, many flaws. However, Hamilton has never been able to carry a pair in Calgary. The attempted Brodie - Hamilton pair was absolutely atrocious in 2015-16, and he was unable to play with the likes of Brett Kulak or Jyrki Jokipakka with any form of success either. He's not like Mark Giordano, in that he is utterly incompetent at elevating other players. His success in Calgary stemmed almost entirely upon Giordano's support, much in the same vein that Brodie's success did from 2013 - 2016.

- It seems a little disingenuous to write off Noah Hanifin as a possible Giordano replacement, considering that he is only 21 and coming off an All-Star season. Hanifin is a player who's largely unknown in Calgary -- admittedly, I've watched very little of him -- but his draft pedigree and apparent improvement each season seem to look favourably upon his continued progression. He's literally 14 years younger than Giordano.

- Calling Sean Monahan a "solid 2nd line centre" is utter codswallop. Find me another 2C who scored at a P/GP pace for the vast majority of last season before being injured to the extent of requiring FOUR offseason surgeries. Monahan has scored thirty goals twice in the NHL and has more goals than Jarome Iginla did at his age. The notion of him not being anything other than a 1C is just garbage, and he's still just 24.

- Mike Smith is old, you're right. This is the Flames' single biggest problem, and I agree that it needs to be addressed. But he's still a damn good goaltender and in a league where goaltenders don't have a ton of trade value, he should be easy enough to replace in the interim before Calgary can find a #1 like they did with Kiprusoff.

- Johnny Gaudreau might leave in four years. That's the equivalent of saying that Taylor Hall might sign in Calgary in two years because he'll be a UFA from Calgary. In the meantime, Calgary has a top-5 left-winger who was second in league scoring for the majority of last season before his #1C got hurt.

To conclude, OP, your post is utter garbage seeking to be nothing but incendiary vitriol.

Aside from the last part, thank for actually giving a proper response. I do not agree with everything you posted here, but I can see your point about some things. I will type up a better response shortly when I am able to.

 

[Albus Dumbledore]

The Rangers did exactly that. Put out a letter to the fans and traded long time favorites. It can be done.

easier said than done, its not as simple i want it to happen so it should.

 

[Wayne Primeau]

Aside from the last part, thank for actually giving a proper response. I do not agree with everything you posted here, but I can see your point about some things. I will type up a better response shortly when I am able to.

OK. Perhaps I was a little harsh, but your OP is incredibly extreme.

 

[Hockeyholic]

Nothing the OP said is wrong. This clearly isn't a cup contender. They have alot of good, not great pieces.

 

[Bounces R Way]

The Calgary Flames are about to ice the best roster they've had since the early 90's. They have a young core locked up on very reasonable deals with Gaudreau and Giordano being the highest paid with an AAV of 6.75 million per year. Most of these players are either about to enter their primes or are currently in the midst of them. Picking the two oldest players on the team and holding them as some kind of proof they're about to "sink the roster" is willful ignorance. Especially when those two players are still performing quite well. They've brought in some solid depth this offseason with the Lindholm, Hanifin, Neal, Ryan, and Czarnik additions. They've clipped some deadweight from the roster with the Brouwer buyout, Stajan's likely retirement, and the likely Lazar and Hathaway exclusions. The prospect pool is somewhat unimpressive but there still looks to be some possible contributors as well as two blue chip defenders in Valimaki and Andersson.

I believe the OP to have no idea what he's talking about. This is the poster that also thinks Marner will outproduce Gaudreau this year "rather easily" so you can lump that wishful thinking into whatever this tripe is at the top of this thread.

 

[Wayne Primeau]

Nothing the OP said is wrong. This clearly isn't a cup contender. They have alot of good, not great pieces.

Johnny Gaudreau was on pace to score 100 points for much of last season, and I wouldn't be surprised if he hit 90+ this year. How is he "good, not great?" He'd have led the Leafs in scoring, that's for sure -- and I bet he would this year, too.

 

[Hockeyholic]

Johnny Gaudreau was on pace to score 100 points for much of last season, and I wouldn't be surprised if he hit 90+ this year. How is he "good, not great?" He'd have led the Leafs in scoring, that's for sure -- and I bet he would this year, too.

Doesn't matter what he was on " Pace for". Its a ridiculous term that keeps getting brought up. FYI he finished with 84.

Again, I think they are a good team. There's just nothing truly " Great".

 

[Wayne Primeau]

Doesn't matter what he was on " Pace for". Its a ridiculous term that keeps getting brought up. FYI he finished with 84.

Again, I think they are a good team. There's just nothing truly " Great".

He did finish with 84. Here's something perhaps more tangible -- he was second in scoring for the vast majority of the season.

Also lol how many Leafs fans bring up how many points Auston Matthews was "on pace for" last year. I guess the reality is that he's a 60-point player.

 

[Laodongxi]

Yeah, why aren't the Flames more like the Leafs?

 

[Hockeyholic]

He did finish with 84. Here's something perhaps more tangible -- he was second in scoring for the vast majority of the season.

Also lol how many Leafs fans bring up how many points Auston Matthews was "on pace for" last year. I guess the reality is that he's a 60-point player.

Johnny G could only dream of reaching Matthews heights. Kid is a rare player.

 

[Wayne Primeau]

Johnny G could only dream of reaching Matthews heights. Kid is a rare player.

Johnny Gaudreau outscored Auston Matthews by 21 points last year. Auston Matthews has never won a playoff series.

 

[ViewsFromThe6ix]

Johnny Gaudreau outscored Auston Matthews by 21 points last year. Auston Matthews has never won a playoff series.

This is the problem with HF in a nutshell. Who cares how many points Gaudreau scored? It is like HF punishes having depth. Having more depth and spreading out ice time inherently reduces scoring on an individual basis, but is much better for team success. The Flames missed the playoffs, had no first, second, or third round pick, and have a prospect pool that is ranked by most experts to be in the bottom five in the NHL. How do you not see how big of a problem that is?

I think OP is right on every comment.

 

[Wayne Primeau]

This is the problem with HF in a nutshell. Who cares how many points Gaudreau scored? It is like HF punishes having depth. Having more depth and spreading out ice time inherently reduces scoring on an individual basis, but is much better for team success. The Flames missed the playoffs, had no first, second, or third round pick, and have a prospect pool that is ranked by most experts to be in the bottom five in the NHL. How do you not see how big of a problem that is?

I think OP is right on every comment.

Oh, it was a problem, although it's a little overblown. The Flames have a ton of young talent that they've recently graduated and while having prospects is nice it's not the be-all. Meanwhile, they've made great offseason additions.

 

[ViewsFromThe6ix]

Oh, it was a problem, although it's a little overblown. The Flames have a ton of young talent that they've recently graduated and while having prospects is nice it's not the be-all. Meanwhile, they've made great offseason additions.

Just using this as an example, don't freak out because of the teams, but the Leafs, Flyers, and Lightning have all graduated much more significant prospects to their NHL teams in terms of quality over the past couple of seasons and are still consensus top 15 prospect pools. I don't think graduation is really an excuse for anything.

 

[tarheelhockey]

So many people are down on Hanifin. I still think he has the ability to be a #1. The dude is only 21. Give him a few years and I think he surprises a lot of people.

He’s been in the league so long that people don’t realize how young he is. A lot of good defensemen weren’t even rookies yet at his age.