Future of the Calgary Flames

[Bank Shot]

Any proof of his play slipping at all? Or more nonsense from you that's been spouting off in this thread?

He's well down offensively from 3-4 seasons ago.

Father time comes for all.

 

[Bank Shot]

Chara is 41. Four years ago he was playing great.

The other 3 players on your list were just never that good. Kronwall was pretty good, but lacked the vision of a #1 d-man.

Chara is the exception to the exception. Lidstrom was great until he was 40 as well.
I wouldn't lump Giordano in with those guys.

Kronwall is closer to Giordano than Giorddano is to Chara.

Anyway. That's not the point. The point is that there basically aren't any 37 year old defencemen in the league anymore because they all start falling apart after 35.

It's kind of cute that Flames fans think Giordano is immune to aging.

 

[DJJones]

He's well down offensively from 3-4 seasons ago.

Father time comes for all.

His defense got better though. He took full advantage of Hartley's playing style but took a major step backwards when Hamilton got put on the team. Those Hartley numbers were unsustainable looking back. A 62 point pace is ridiculous. He just doesn't push on the odd man rushes like he used too. Even still, he should be on the 1st PP again this year, and frankly I think he had bad luck last year with his shot. 45 points should be expected this season.

I thought he just had the best season of his career personally. He just tilts the ice in a way that no other player on the Flames even comes close too.

A leg injury would be a big concern as he ages but he plays so position-ally he's going to be good regardless. I'm more worried about Neal at 35 than I am Giordano at 39.

 

[DJJones]

Chara is the exception to the exception. Lidstrom was great until he was 40 as well.
I wouldn't lump Giordano in with those guys.

Kronwall is closer to Giordano than Giorddano is to Chara.

Anyway. That's not the point. The point is that there basically aren't any 37 year old defencemen in the league anymore because they all start falling apart after 35.

It's kind of cute that Flames fans think Giordano is immune to aging.

Giordano is better than Kronwall ever was and frankly, the guy should retire for health reasons. There's plenty of defenseman that play well to 38-40. Most players just get pushed out earlier because no one wants to sign a 30 year old middling defenseman for more than a year. So anyone over 33 and okay, one off year and they're out and replaced with someone younger.

It's actually hard to find quality defense man that aged out. Just looking at retirements from wiki. Streit, Beauchuman, Jackman (surprised he made it so long), Ohlund, Souray. Like what good players have even aged recently? Can't think of an example. Keith would probably be the biggest comparison but the guys played 400 more games than Giordano.

When's the last time a top 30 defender dropped out of that list due to age?

 

[Mobiandi]

He's well down offensively from 3-4 seasons ago.

Father time comes for all.

So are Brodie, Stone, Hamonic. Didn't realize they were all on the wrong side of 30? Wanna know the common denominator? Glen Gulutzan.

It's fair to say Giordano has lost a step offensively. But his steady decline isn't nearly as sharp as you make it out to be

 

[Lunatik]

Every year ppl and the media say they will be good and they aren’t. This year it’s the same thing. Still don’t see it

This is simply not true, it's dare the Flames have been picked to do well

Any proof of his play slipping at all? Or more nonsense from you that's been spouting off in this thread?

why keep engaging him? This isn't just to you, but all Flames fans. We know his schtick, we know he won't stop shitting on the Flames no matter how sound the argument is and we know he'll twist and manipulate things just to get us going.

 

[PsYcNeT]

Giordano is better than Kronwall ever was and frankly, the guy should retire for health reasons. There's plenty of defenseman that play well to 38-40. Most players just get pushed out earlier because no one wants to sign a 30 year old middling defenseman for more than a year. So anyone over 33 and okay, one off year and they're out and replaced with someone younger.

It's actually hard to find quality defense man that aged out. Just looking at retirements from wiki. Streit, Beauchuman, Jackman (surprised he made it so long), Ohlund, Souray. Like what good players have even aged recently? Can't think of an example. Keith would probably be the biggest comparison but the guys played 400 more games than Giordano.

When's the last time a top 30 defender dropped out of that list due to age?

Markov?

 

[Bank Shot]

When's the last time a top 30 defender dropped out of that list due to age?

Are you serious?

Ohlund
Hamhuis
Visnovsky
Boyle
Streit
Campbell
Thomas Kaberle
Kronwall
Seabrook
Mccabe
Bouwmeester
Green
Jovanovski
Aucoin

The list is a mile long.

The list of guys that didn't lose a step until the age of 37-38 is about 5 guys in the last ten years.

 

[Stickpucker]

Even if Ryan only pots 10 goals, we still have we more goals coming in, than going out. Between that and the normalization of our shooting percentage, we should at least be middle of the pack. That's also not accounting for anyone breaking out offensively.

But why pay attention to reason and statistics when you can make baseless and uninformed assumptions just because you don't like the coach.

Peters seems to encourage a lot of low percentage shots rather than trying to get in high danger positions to avoid loss of possession. I wouldn't be surprised if Calgary's doesn't increase under him especially when a few of the guys you picked up are known for peremiter play.

 

[DJJones]

Are you serious?

Ohlund
Hamhuis
Visnovsky
Boyle
Streit
Campbell
Thomas Kaberle
Kronwall
Seabrook
Mccabe
Bouwmeester
Green
Jovanovski
Aucoin

The list is a mile long.

The list of guys that didn't lose a step until the age of 37-38 is about 5 guys in the last ten years.

Not a very impressive list of players. Seabrook, Visnovsky, Campell and Kronwall probably the best.

But ya, if you stay healthy it looks like you drop 2 or 3 spots by age ~38. Which make's sense. I think Giordano will be a solid 2nd pairing guy at the end of his contract.

If he gets seriously hurt, it doesn't really matter how old he is.

 

[Mobiandi]

Peters seems to encourage a lot of low percentage shots rather than trying to get in high danger positions to avoid loss of possession. I wouldn't be surprised if Calgary's doesn't increase under him especially when a few of the guys you picked up are known for peremiter play.

This is exactly what we saw under Gulutzan. Hopefully Peters changes it up

 

[Anglesmith]

Peters seems to encourage a lot of low percentage shots rather than trying to get in high danger positions to avoid loss of possession. I wouldn't be surprised if Calgary's doesn't increase under him especially when a few of the guys you picked up are known for peremiter play.

We will have to see. What we do know is that we needed a change in system from what we had, because it was making a lot of very talented players play the worst hockey of their careers, and didn't repeatably generate quality scoring chances, while not preventing them despite a very good group of defencemen.

The hope in Calgary isn't simply that the goals we brought in is more than the goals we let go, it's that the team will play differently this year, have a different mentality and attitude, and in addition, will have players slotted more appropriately in the lineup. If Peters' system isn't an improvement, hopefully his leadership style will better suit this team, and hopefully the new locker room mix inspires better consistency. And if all other things are equal, if we can just drag our PP up to league-average, we'll be great.

 

[Dack]

Brian Campbell was an absolute monster until like 2016 that's an awful example.

 

[Bank Shot]

Not a very impressive list of players. Seabrook, Visnovsky, Campell and Kronwall probably the best.

But ya, if you stay healthy it looks like you drop 2 or 3 spots by age ~38. Which make's sense. I think Giordano will be a solid 2nd pairing guy at the end of his contract.

If he gets seriously hurt, it doesn't really matter how old he is.

What do you mean not impressive?

Dan Boyle for instance got Norris votes in 8 different seasons, finished top 5 twice, and made the second all-star team twice.

Let's not forget that Giordano is't Lidstrom. He hasn't been a perennial all-star his whole career. He's had about 4-5 noteworthy seasons.

Lots of d-men in that same boat that had a few good years and then didn't play at a high level until 37. Almost all of them in fact.

The ones that make it to 37 at a high level are massive outliers. Betting on someone to do it is pretty bizarre.

 

[guzzy]

He's well down offensively from 3-4 seasons ago.

Father time comes for all.

Age probably plays a bit of a factor but so does coaching. Under GG, he scored 38 and 39 (0.5 ppg) points the last two years. Under Hartley he scored 56 (.68 ppg) and 48 (.6ppg). Hartley played a very open, free wheeling system, especially the dmen. GG reigned them in big time.

The guy is still a beast. Yes he will slow down but there is no concern from Flames fans. There are only a few simple minds on here who keep thinking the sky is falling with Gio. The Guy is in amazing physical condition. If he scores near 0.5 ppg for the next 3 seasons that contract is an absolute bargain. Hell, if he can average 0.5 ppg over the entire contract, the contract is a bargain.

 

[Bank Shot]

Brian Campbell was an absolute monster until like 2016 that's an awful example.

It's a great example of a guy who just fell off a cliff around 36 years of age.

That's what tends to happen to elite athletes.

 

[Bank Shot]

The Guy is in amazing physical condition. If he scores near 0.5 ppg for the next 3 seasons that contract is an absolute bargain.

I'll take that bet.

 

[DJJones]

Ya I wouldn't bet he'll score 40 points in 3 years. I'd be worried if we still needed him to do that.

But he'll still be the best on the team in his own zone and still have a canon.

 

[Dack]

It's a great example of a guy who just fell off a cliff around 36 years of age.

That's what tends to happen to elite athletes.

So Gio will be good for 2-3 more seasons? That's fine especially because even if he only played at 50% of what he is now he'd still be a #4 or so.

 

[DJJones]

What do you mean not impressive?

Dan Boyle for instance got Norris votes in 8 different seasons, finished top 5 twice, and made the second all-star team twice.

Let's not forget that Giordano is't Lidstrom. He hasn't been a perennial all-star his whole career. He's had about 4-5 noteworthy seasons.

Lots of d-men in that same boat that had a few good years and then didn't play at a high level until 37. Almost all of them in fact.

The ones that make it to 37 at a high level are massive outliers. Betting on someone to do it is pretty bizarre.

Ya no one is suggesting he's going to get better haha. He's not going to win a Norris at 38.

Like are you suggesting that he's just had a few good years of luck? Not really sure what you're trying to say there. He's been solid since he came into the league. Like he got 11 goals in 09/10

 

[Soundwave]

So are Brodie, Stone, Hamonic. Didn't realize they were all on the wrong side of 30? Wanna know the common denominator? Glen Gulutzan.

It's fair to say Giordano has lost a step offensively. But his steady decline isn't nearly as sharp as you make it out to be

Dougie Hamilton produced high offensive numbers under Gulutzan. Hamonic has had injuries and has had family issues hanging over him but really he's never been an offensive juggernaut anyway, he's topped 30 points once in his career. Brodie was always likely a byproduct of Giordano, so him declining alongside Giordano isn't exactly shocking.

Which leaves Stone, which could go either way.

 

[Mobiandi]

Dougie Hamilton produced high offensive numbers under Gulutzan. Hamonic has had injuries and has had family issues hanging over him but really he's never been an offensive juggernaut anyway, he's topped 30 points once in his career. Brodie was always likely a byproduct of Giordano, so him declining alongside Giordano isn't exactly shocking.

Which leaves Stone, which could go either way.

Brodie was never as comfortable on the left side and Gulutzan never tried him on the right in the two seasons he coached the team. Says more about him than Brodie. I also highly disagree that Brodie was a product of Giordano when he made the ghost of Dennis Wideman look significantly better than he was in his last season and also looked good with Stone. He and Hamonic just didn't jive

Stone has a cannon of a shot and his numbers have totally nosedived since joining the Flames. Hamonic has also seen his numbers drop but I didn't really watch him while he was on the Isles.

The knock on our defense by HF has always been that they're too offensively inclined to be good in their own zone. So now they're mediocre in both? Nah. Any Flames fan that watched the team last season will tell you that the burden of offense was completely shifted to our forwards which is precisely why we finished bottom 5 in GF. Hamilton found success in the second half of last season anyway and struggled a lot at the start with 17 pts in the first half of the season