Future of NHL on NBC

[varsaku]

Netflix hasn’t shown any interest in getting into Live sports broadcasting. If any it would be with twitter, Facebook or amazon.

 

[varsaku]

ESPN + has been expanding quickly and may try to get more NHL games on it.

 

[eddygee]

I'd imagine Netflix is a much more popular platform than nbcsn or such. It also reaches an entirely new audience.

Hockey fans would easily fork over $8 a month to watch games. They do it all the time for streaming services.

With subscription services you don't have to worry about ratings just subscribers to generate revenue. However, you need increasing amounts of people that want to watch the product first to capitalize on a subscriber based model of generating revenue long term before you start pulling free to watch content off of TV. NHL needs TV and the audience to grow at this point. Say if NHL got 300k diehards which is close to the avg. national audience size of NBCSN to subscribe to a service on Netflix for $8 a month that's $2.4 mil a month revenue generated times 12 months that's $28,800,000 yr in rev for Netflix.
So with that return plus the added viewers who didn't already have Netflix maybe they pay NHL roughly double... so $ 55 mil pr yr deal??

I think it's far easier to just work on generating a larger TV audience and get paid more vice taking away free games on TV available to a wider audience just to put them on Netflix.

 

[eddygee]

ESPN + has been expanding quickly and may try to get more NHL games on it.

This is far more likely. ESPN may offer a $75-100 mil yr for more games on ESPN+ in addition to what the next NBC deal is. That would be worthwhile for NHL as ESPN would have a vested interest in boosting the league and there would be more spill over coverage and promotion from ESPN hopefully.

 

[varsaku]

This is far more likely. ESPN may offer a $75-100 mil yr for more games on ESPN+ in addition to what the next NBC deal is. That would be worthwhile for NHL as ESPN would have a vested interest in boosting the league and there would be more spill over coverage and promotion from ESPN hopefully.

ESPN+ has only 1 million subscribers which is about $60,000,000 in annual revenue. No way they will spend that much to get NHL rights. They won’t at least until they have more subscribers.

 

[IU Hawks fan]

ESPN + has been expanding quickly and may try to get more NHL games on it.

This is far more likely. ESPN may offer a $75-100 mil yr for more games on ESPN+ in addition to what the next NBC deal is. That would be worthwhile for NHL as ESPN would have a vested interest in boosting the league and there would be more spill over coverage and promotion from ESPN hopefully.

BAMTech (which is now majority owned by Disney, hence the games on ESPN+) owns the digital rights through the 20-21 season.

They could technically put every out of market non-national TV game on ESPN+ right now if they wanted to. They won't be paying for "more games", however, they will need to pay to keep the digital rights, assuming they continue past that expiration point.

ESPN+ has only 1 million subscribers which is about $60,000,000 in annual revenue. No way they will spend that much to get NHL rights. They won’t at least until they have more subscribers.

They aren't paying to "put games on ESPN+". The main reason they own the rights is to distribute NHL.TV.

 

[powerstuck]

With subscription services you don't have to worry about ratings just subscribers to generate revenue. However, you need increasing amounts of people that want to watch the product first to capitalize on a subscriber based model of generating revenue long term before you start pulling free to watch content off of TV. NHL needs TV and the audience to grow at this point. Say if NHL got 300k diehards which is close to the avg. national audience size of NBCSN to subscribe to a service on Netflix for $8 a month that's $2.4 mil a month revenue generated times 12 months that's $28,800,000 yr in rev for Netflix.
So with that return plus the added viewers who didn't already have Netflix maybe they pay NHL roughly double... so $ 55 mil pr yr deal??

I think it's far easier to just work on generating a larger TV audience and get paid more vice taking away free games on TV available to a wider audience just to put them on Netflix.

You do realize that for 8$/month you get 100s of thousands hours of content on Netflix. The way you need to look at it, is your 8$/month is all to Netflix but then Netflix uses cents of each subscriber to pay for the content.

Technically, you could have Netflix Sports where you pay another 8$/month to obtain live sports features...but even then. Rogers is currently selling their NHL live for 29,99$ a month...can't see how Netflix with 8$ can make this work...especially if NHL is looking at increasing their TV revenue.

 

[varsaku]

BAMTech (which is now majority owned by Disney, hence the games on ESPN+) owns the digital rights through the 20-21 season.

They could technically put every out of market non-national TV game on ESPN+ right now if they wanted to. They won't be paying for "more games", however, they will need to pay to keep the digital rights, assuming they continue past that expiration point.



They aren't paying to "put games on ESPN+". The main reason they own the rights is to distribute NHL.TV.

If they are separate legal entities won’t they be having to pay taxes on the transfer of the rights for those games to ESPN+? I was under the impression the games on ESPN+ was a new contract with ESPN.

 

[IU Hawks fan]

If they are separate legal entities won’t they be having to pay taxes on the transfer of the rights for those games to ESPN+? I was under the impression the games on ESPN+ was a new contract with ESPN.

There's no new contract; no new money.

NHL Games To Be Part Of New ESPN+ Digital Service Debut In Spring 2018

 

[Vamos Rafa]

ESPN + has been expanding quickly and may try to get more NHL games on it.

How does ESPN get rights to some NHL games?

 

[Anisimovs AK]

As a fan of both leagues that is a rare occurrence and only happens when MLS Cup is aired on cable ESPN and not broadcast cable like FOX; that's like comparing a Stanley Cup Game on NBC vs NBCSN. Don't discount what he said though. You could say the same about Regular season MLS games this year pulling more/or about the same as some Stanley Cup games. There were numerous MLS regular season games that had 1.1+ mil viewers including one with 1.56 mil viewers.

NHL does have a ratings problem. The regular numbers are decreasing with multiple double digit % losses in viewership since NBC signed the 2011 deal. MLS ratings are up and look like they'll be up around 300k plus this season up from 258k last year.
View attachment 145225 View attachment 145233

No, you cant. MLS teams play once maybe twice a week. MLS has a 30 some game regular season. Their tv ratings per game should be above the NHL's just due to inventory.

Also, MLS' games on broadcast the last two years have averaged just 600,000 viewers. The NHL's worst OTA ratings are still over a million.

Regular season MLS games dont get as much as Stanley Cup games, the only year they even got close was 2007 due to a variety of factors.

The MLS cup final still fails to crack a million viewers.

And seriously, if the MLS gets $300-$400 million next tv deal (which it wont but I digress) then the NHL will get even more than that. More inventory and higher ratings with just the regular season package, and then those exclusive playoff games/Cup Finals games are just icing on the cake.


There is a reason the NHL makes near $4 Billion a year and the MLS just recently started to make a profit at all.

 

[Anisimovs AK]

MLS is doing well in fast growing demographics the NHL has virtually no relevance in.

You talking about adults 18-49? The demographic which the NHL has no problem garnering?

 

[UNITEDSTATESOFHOCKEY]

It is all about the local ratings. The NHL national telecasts do not do well outside of the participating markets. As much as the fans on here want to see Matthews and Laine, until they are playing in a large US market, they are not going to be on NBC, much. Eichel, yes as Buffalo does very well in their local market. Last I saw, they were 2nd only to Pittsburgh in local ratings.

My issue with NBCS is their insistence on these Wednesday Night rivalry games. Rangers play Chicago almost every year on this (sometimes twice) and the truth is, they are not rivals. Same for Rangers and Bruins. I get why they show them, they want the NY and Chicago markets, they want the NY and New England markets, so I guess it is just semantics.

Rivalry Nights are a joke, its kind of insulting to hockey fans because we know better. Either they are trying to treat us like we are idiots or they think we are idiots. Either way, Wednesday night rivalry is stupid. Also no National Televised games on Thursday and Saturday nights is beyond stupid in my opinion, but they'll go up against monday night football?!?! Bottom line, they are not very creative, they don't push the envelope, they take the "safe" route with their programming and it really sucks!!!

 

[eddygee]

No, you cant. MLS teams play once maybe twice a week. MLS has a 30 some game regular season. Their tv ratings per game should be above the NHL's just due to inventory.

Also, MLS' games on broadcast the last two years have averaged just 600,000 viewers. The NHL's worst OTA ratings are still over a million.

Regular season MLS games dont get as much as Stanley Cup games, the only year they even got close was 2007 due to a variety of factors.

The MLS cup final still fails to crack a million viewers.

And seriously, if the MLS gets $300-$400 million next tv deal (which it wont but I digress) then the NHL will get even more than that. More inventory and higher ratings with just the regular season package, and then those exclusive playoff games/Cup Finals games are just icing on the cake.


There is a reason the NHL makes near $4 Billion a year and the MLS just recently started to make a profit at all.

You are right with the $4 billion MLS makes $1 Billion a year for now, the profit thing has always been a CBA negotiating tactic. However I gotta respectfully disagree you most definitely are incorrect about MLS Cup still failing to crack a million viewers. There has literally only been 3 MLS Cups out of the 23 yr. history of MLS that have failed to crack million viewers, and that hasn't happened in almost a decade since 2010. MLS has a big presence and partnership with US Spanish TV, MLS Cup broadcast in simulcast Spanish in the US on two networks; which splits the viewing numbers. that's probably what you saw but didn't take the actual complete US TV viewing number into account. Also take into account you are comparing NHL to MLS Cup games that aren't on OTA cable every year like Stanley Cup is with NBC. So you're being a bit disingenuous. It wasn't until 2016 that FOX and ESPN started rotating MLS Cup years. ESPN had it last year, MLS Cup is back on FOX this year. Not sure why you underrate MLS, it's growing at a faster pace. Does it have NHL money no but it's rapidly growing. It's not hard to see how they get to at least $300 mil per yr with their next TV deal coming 1 yr after ours. It's simple IMHO all of their sponsorship deals they've signed are going for 3/4x fold. They just signed a 6 yr/$700 mil dollar league wide deal with Adidas = $117mil per yr, that's an increase from a prior 8 yr/$200 mil dollar deal with Adidas that was $25mil per yr.
Next MLS TV ratings have increased every year since MLS signed it's TV deal in 2014. Lastly the biggest thing is multiple TV partners. MLS has 3 ESPN/FOX/and Univision, last deal in 2014 they all combined to add an increase of about 3.4x the last deal. So add increasing TV numbers and by 2022 MLS will have added 8 teams since the last TV deal was negotiated my prediction makes a hell of a lot more sense. If MLS at least gets the same increase with having added more teams this go around than last TV deal that's $90mil x 3.4= $304 mil pr yr. Btw MLS plays 34 games. I understand about the 2007 Stanley Cup; I figured if you were gonna make wild statements like NHL regular season games in the US get more viewers than MLS Cup and not add in the context like for one it's rare or the NHL game might have been on broadcast cable like NBC, had a Kentucky Derby/Preakness lead in while it was also a Winter Classic game or Stadium Series game I'd take the same liberty and leave out context too

Hey I did say I think NHL gets $400-500 mil per year that's still more than the $300-450 mil per I think MLS gets. I wouldn't tout our regular season numbers, nothing to crow about NHL gets twice the amount of games on broadcast cable NBC than MLS gets with FOX and TV ratings are dropping, last year NBC/NBCSN TV rating was 417k, meanwhile MLS is rising. I do wonder what both leagues regular season numbers look like in 2021/2022. Our saving grace is our bulk of games and Stanley Cup playoffs. My concern is declining Regular Season ratings may hurt our next TV deal. Below some stats for context.

MLS Regular Season Viewers Avg.
2014: 200k
2015: 229k
2016: 248k
2017: 258k
2018: 308k so far

MLS Cup Viewers (English-language) MLS Cup Viewers (Spanish-language)

YEAR: AVG. (NETWORK)
2017: 803,000 (ESPN)/2017: 304,000 (UniMas/Univision Deportes)=1,107,000
2016: 1,411,000 (FOX)/2016: 601,000 (Univision)=2,012,000
2015: 668,000 (ESPN)/2015: 300,000 (UniMas) 206,000 (Univision)=1,174,000
2014: 964,000 (ESPN)/2014: 678,000 (UniMas) 245,000 (Univision)=1,887,000
2013: 505,000 (ESPN)/2013: 514,000 (UniMas)=1,019,000
2012: 797,000 (ESPN)2012: 485,000 (*TeleFutura)=1,282,000
2011: 1,039,000 (ESPN)2011: 307,000(Galavision)=1,346,000
2010: 748,000 (ESPN)2010: 232,000 (Galavision)=980,000
2009: 1,141,000 (ESPN)
2008: 907,000 (ABC)
2007: 1,097,000 (ABC)
2006: 1,245,000 (ABC)
2005: 1,137,000 (ABC)
2004: 1,300,000 (ABC)
2003: 876,000 (ABC)
2002: 1,169,000 (ABC)
2001: 2,000,000(ABC)
2000: 1,200,000(ABC)
1999: 1,300,000(ABC)
1998: 2,200,000(ABC)
1997: 2,600,000(ABC)
1996: 3,100,000(ABC)


MLS Cup viewers on UniMas surpass those on ESPN
Where the 2016 MLS Cup ranks in TV ratings against previous finals - World Soccer Talk
2017 MLS Cup final viewership drops 43% across ESPN and Univision Deportes - World Soccer Talk
MLS sees 38% decline in 2015 MLS Cup TV viewing numbers - World Soccer Talk
Major League Soccer on television - Wikipedia

 

[Anisimovs AK]

You are right with the $4 billion MLS makes $1 Billion a year for now, the profit thing has always been a CBA negotiating tactic. However I gotta respectfully disagree you most definitely are incorrect about MLS Cup still failing to crack a million viewers. There has literally only been 3 MLS Cups out of the 23 yr. history of MLS that have failed to crack million viewers, and that hasn't happened in almost a decade since 2010. MLS has a big presence and partnership with US Spanish TV, MLS Cup broadcast in simulcast Spanish in the US on two networks; which splits the viewing numbers. that's probably what you saw but didn't take the actual complete US TV viewing number into account. Also take into account you are comparing NHL to MLS Cup games that aren't on OTA cable every year like Stanley Cup is with NBC. So you're being a bit disingenuous. It wasn't until 2016 that FOX and ESPN started rotating MLS Cup years. ESPN had it last year, MLS Cup is back on FOX this year. Not sure why you underrate MLS, it's growing at a faster pace. Does it have NHL money no but it's rapidly growing. It's not hard to see how they get to at least a $300 mil per yr with their next TV deal coming 1 yr after ours. It's simple IMHO all of their sponsorship deals they've signed are going for 3/4x fold. They just signed a 6 yr/$700 mil dollar league wide deal with Adidas = $117mil per yr, that's an increase from a prior 8 yr/$200 mil dollar deal with Adidas that was $25mil per yr.
Next MLS TV ratings have increased every year since MLS signed it's TV deal in 2014. Lastly the biggest thing is multiple TV partners. MLS has 3 ESPN/FOX/and Univision, last deal in 2014 they all combined to add an increase of about 3.4x the last deal. So with increasing TV numbers and by 2022 MLS will have added 8 teams since the last TV deal was negotiated my prediction makes a hell of a lot more sense. If MLS got the same increase with adding more teams this go around than last TV deal $90mil x 3.4= $304 mil pr yr. Btw MLS plays 34 games. I understand about the 2007 Stanley Cup; I figured if you were gonna make wild statements like NHL regular season games in the US get more viewers than MLS Cup and not add in the context like for one it's rare or the NHL game might have been on broadcast cable like NBC, had a Kentucky Derby/Preakness lead in while it was also a Winter Classic game or Stadium Series game I'd take the same liberty and leave out context too

Hey I did say I think NHL gets $400-500 mil per year that's still more than the $300-450 mil per I think MLS gets. But I wouldn't tout our regular season numbers, nothing to crow about about NHL gets twice the amount of games on broadcast cable NBC than MLS gets with FOX and TV ratings are dropping, last year NBC/NBCSN TV rating was 417k, meanwhile MLS is rising. I do wonder what both leagues regular season numbers look like in 2021/2022. Our saving grace is our bulk of games and Stanley Cup Cup playoffs. My concern is declining Regular Season ratings may hurt our next TV deal. Below some stats for context.

MLS Regular Season Viewers Avg.
2014: 200k
2015: 229k
2016: 248k
2017: 258k
2018: 308k so far

MLS Cup Viewers (English-language) MLS Cup Viewers (Spanish-language)

YEAR: AVG. (NETWORK)
2017: 803,000 (ESPN)/2017: 304,000 (UniMas/Univision Deportes)=1,107,000
2016: 1,411,000 (FOX)/2016: 601,000 (Univision)=2,012,000
2015: 668,000 (ESPN)/2015: 300,000 (UniMas) 206,000 (Univision)=1,174,000
2014: 964,000 (ESPN)/2014: 678,000 (UniMas) 245,000 (Univision)=1,887,000
2013: 505,000 (ESPN)/2013: 514,000 (UniMas)=1,019,000
2012: 797,000 (ESPN)2012: 485,000 (*TeleFutura)=1,282,000
2011: 1,039,000 (ESPN)2011: 307,000(Galavision)=1,346,000
2010: 748,000 (ESPN)2010: 232,000 (Galavision)=980,000
2009: 1,141,000 (ESPN)
2008: 907,000 (ABC)
2007: 1,097,000 (ABC)
2006: 1,245,000 (ABC)
2005: 1,137,000 (ABC)
2004: 1,300,000 (ABC)
2003: 876,000 (ABC)
2002: 1,169,000 (ABC)
2001: 2,000,000(ABC)
2000: 1,200,000(ABC)
1999: 1,300,000(ABC)
1998: 2,200,000(ABC)
1997: 2,600,000(ABC)
1996: 3,100,000(ABC)


MLS Cup viewers on UniMas surpass those on ESPN
Where the 2016 MLS Cup ranks in TV ratings against previous finals - World Soccer Talk
2017 MLS Cup final viewership drops 43% across ESPN and Univision Deportes - World Soccer Talk
MLS sees 38% decline in 2015 MLS Cup TV viewing numbers - World Soccer Talk
Major League Soccer on television - Wikipedia

The MLS Cup has reached over a million viewers only twice since 2010, where are you getting your numbers?

Oh you're including the spanish language station which includes many non US viewers. Okay.



What Im really saying is for all the flak you give NHL fans for their NBA obsession you basically do the same thing comparing MLS to NHL.


Also, I really dont think MLS gets even 75 percent of the NHL's contract. They only get about 45% of it now, and their growth has only affected the regular season. The 2 months of the NHL playoffs are more valuable then the entirety of the regular season according to the NHL COO in 2012, the fact that the league has seen high/steady/increased playoff ratings without many big market teams having success recently is only more of a boon for the league's contract chances. Also the addition of Vegas and Seattle will only help as well

And thats just the American tv contract. Thats not including the $100 million for US digital rights or the c. $425 million from Canada or the millions from overseas.



The MLS has a long long long long way to go. We havent even gotten in to their player allocation system either.

 

[eddygee]

The Spanish numbers ARE US viewers do they not count as US viewers because they are Bilingual and speak Spanish as a first language? Those numbers don't come from Mexico you know lol. We don't throw out French Canadian numbers from Quebec when we talk Canadian numbers.

Also.. man you are confusing me with someone else I've never given the NHL flak about the NBA ratings comparison, so sorry wrong guy not me at all. I don't really follow the NBA outside of playoffs don't care for it. I want us to get as big a deal as we can. I'm just a TV ratings junkie in rehab lol. I love tracking this stuff. Yeah I think you are confusing me with someone else I've been a long time lurker and don't post alot but we've agreed in alot of post before in the past you surely have me mistaken with another poster.

I didn't include digital rights MLS will get a separate digital rights deal too now that they rolled up their MLS Live programming into ESPN+. This is strictly about the US deal. We all know Canada is Hockey crazy, this is about the state of things in the US that's what important.

 

[eddygee]

List of professional sports leagues by revenue - Wikipedia

Can the NHL crack 5 billion soon?

 

[Crescent Street]

Going back a few weeks, I think it's fair to say the opening night ratings drop were largely in part to the Yankees home wild card game that same night. I'm sure the majority of the north east was tuned into that and not Hockey.

 

[MNNumbers]

List of professional sports leagues by revenue - Wikipedia

Can the NHL crack 5 billion soon?
View attachment 146117

The most surprising things about that chart are:
1- Although they serve only GB, The Premier League has nearly as much average revenue for its teams as does MLB. Wow. Think about that.
2- Again with soccer, Champions League, which is like the European playoffs, and has only 125 games in its ENTIRE schedule, makes the list. Think about that.

 

[eddygee]

The most surprising things about that chart are:
1- Although they serve only GB, The Premier League has nearly as much average revenue for its teams as does MLB. Wow. Think about that.
2- Again with soccer, Champions League, which is like the European playoffs, and has only 125 games in its ENTIRE schedule, makes the list. Think about that.

Yeah the EPL is like the NFL in GB apparently. Crazy amount of money that league has for just 20 teams.

 

[eddygee]

Going back a few weeks, I think it's fair to say the opening night ratings drop were largely in part to the Yankees home wild card game that same night. I'm sure the majority of the north east was tuned into that and not Hockey.

I hate the Yankees. I lost interest in the Baseball season 2 months in when it became clear my O's were going to suck lol.

 

[eddygee]

The MLS Cup has reached over a million viewers only twice since 2010, where are you getting your numbers?

Oh you're including the spanish language station which includes many non US viewers. Okay.



What Im really saying is for all the flak you give NHL fans for their NBA obsession you basically do the same thing comparing MLS to NHL.


Also, I really dont think MLS gets even 75 percent of the NHL's contract. They only get about 45% of it now, and their growth has only affected the regular season. The 2 months of the NHL playoffs are more valuable then the entirety of the regular season according to the NHL COO in 2012, the fact that the league has seen high/steady/increased playoff ratings without many big market teams having success recently is only more of a boon for the league's contract chances. Also the addition of Vegas and Seattle will only help as well

And thats just the American tv contract. Thats not including the $100 million for US digital rights or the c. $425 million from Canada or the millions from overseas.



The MLS has a long long long long way to go. We havent even gotten in to their player allocation system either.

Hey do you have the numbers on the amount for those overseas deals. I'd love to know how much they are for?

 

[jbobell98]

If they don't sign the TV rights over to ESPN, NHL popularity is doomed. ESPN is by far the biggest sports broadcaster in the United States and even the world. They have the most followers on every social media site by a wide margin. This is especially important in todays age where more and more sports are being consumed on social media. Social media is where sports leagues can gain casual fans and easily promote their product. ESPN hardly ever posts any NHL highlights on twitter. I dont blame them, why should they? They dont have the TV rights theres no incentive to promote hockey. Any decision but ESPN is the wrong one.

 

[gstommylee]

If they don't sign the TV rights over to ESPN, NHL popularity is doomed. ESPN is by far the biggest sports broadcaster in the United States and even the world. They have the most followers on every social media site by a wide margin. This is especially important in todays age where more and more sports are being consumed on social media. Social media is where sports leagues can gain casual fans and easily promote their product. ESPN hardly ever posts any NHL highlights on twitter. I dont blame them, why should they? They dont have the TV rights theres no incentive to promote hockey. Any decision but ESPN is the wrong one.

And how is NHL doomed if they don't go to ESPN? ESPN hardly even cared about the NHL even when they had the tv rights.

 

[jbobell98]

And how is NHL doomed if they don't go to ESPN? ESPN hardly even cared about the NHL even when they had the tv rights.

The social media presence of the other broadcasters is minimal compared to ESPN. Having hockey shown to a large audience on twitter, facebook, instagram is vitally important especially for the younger demographics.
I'm sure that the NHL could negotiate a clause in the deal pertaining to what ESPN channels games are showed on, highlights must be shown on Sportscenter and most likely something to do with social media. ESPN controls the sports landscape in the USA and is the biggest player around the world. Your concern is valid however if they get ESPN to proficiently cover hockey all other broadcasters are the wrong choice.