Future of NHL on NBC

[rfournier103]

If they don't sign the TV rights over to ESPN, NHL popularity is doomed.

I suppose the kindest thing I can say here is that this statement just isn’t accurate.

There are networks like NBC, CBS, or FOX that could reach just as many fans. They all have digital footprints and could very easily match ESPN in terms of marketing strength.

ESPN’s popularity is on the wane in the US for several reasons. Just Google “ESPN decline” and you can spend an afternoon reading all about it. ESPN can’t do anything for the NHL that anyone else couldn’t.

I’m tired of the notion that the NHL needs some kind of broadcast savior to stave off its implosion in the US. The NHL is a tremendous product that can work on any network if they just market it.

 

[BattleBorn]

ESPN is the 24 Hour Cable News of sports in America. The benefit of ESPN is that their channels are filled with sports discussion and commentary more than the live sports they show. Programming like this is how you get casual viewers that turn into fans.

There's no real benefit to ESPN talking hockey like they talk other sports because A.) It's not as popular and B.) turning casual fans into hockey fans doesn't benefit them, in fact...it hurts them since they don't show live hockey and their competition does.

This is more about the marketing of hockey than it is getting X number of live games broadcast nationally. Getting games broadcast on ESPN in prime time means ESPN has a vested interest in talking hockey leading up to prime time. I don't think that can be undervalued.

 

[jbobell98]

I suppose the kindest thing I can say here is that this statement just isn’t accurate.

There are networks like NBC, CBS, or FOX that could reach just as many fans. They all have digital footprints and could very easily match ESPN in terms of marketing strength.

ESPN’s popularity is on the wane in the US for several reasons. Just Google “ESPN decline” and you can spend an afternoon reading all about it. ESPN can’t do anything for the NHL that anyone else couldn’t.

I’m tired of the notion that the NHL needs some kind of broadcast savior to stave off its implosion in the US. The NHL is a tremendous product that can work on any network if they just market it.

Do you really believe fox, nbc or cbs have as big of digital footprints as ESPN? Even Fox's biggest social media account, fox news, which rarely ever tweets about sports has have the followers ESPN has and not even a tenth of their engagement in terms of likes and retweets.
This is the era of social media and I think a lot of people are underestimating social medias value.

 

[eddygee]

ESPN is the 24 Hour Cable News of sports in America. The benefit of ESPN is that their channels are filled with sports discussion and commentary more than the live sports they show. Programming like this is how you get casual viewers that turn into fans.

There's no real benefit to ESPN talking hockey like they talk other sports because A.) It's not as popular and B.) turning casual fans into hockey fans doesn't benefit them, in fact...it hurts them since they don't show live hockey and their competition does.

This is more about the marketing of hockey than it is getting X number of live games broadcast nationally. Getting games broadcast on ESPN in prime time means ESPN has a vested interest in talking hockey leading up to prime time. I don't think that can be undervalued.

I don't understand why they don't do it now since they show games on ESPN+ I was hoping they would they have the "In the Crease " with Steve Levy, Linda Kohn and Buccigross but that coverage hasn't filtered over to main ESPN promotion like other sports.

 

[rfournier103]

Do you really believe fox, nbc or cbs have as big of digital footprints as ESPN? Even Fox's biggest social media account, fox news, which rarely ever tweets about sports has have the followers ESPN has and not even a tenth of their engagement in terms of likes and retweets.
This is the era of social media and I think a lot of people are underestimating social medias value.

Do you really believe that ESPN will make the NHL a priority? After all, there’s:

Major League Baseball
NBA basketball
NFL football
NCAA football
NCAA basketball

Where do you think ESPN will direct its resources with regards to where NHL hockey will ever fit on this list?

Just because ESPN has resources, doesn’t mean it will actually use them to benefit the NHL. Even if ESPN has a larger digital footprint than NBC, what good does it do the NHL if they don’t use it for the NHL?

 

[Anisimovs AK]

ESPN is the 24 Hour Cable News of sports in America. The benefit of ESPN is that their channels are filled with sports discussion and commentary more than the live sports they show. Programming like this is how you get casual viewers that turn into fans.

There's no real benefit to ESPN talking hockey like they talk other sports because A.) It's not as popular and B.) turning casual fans into hockey fans doesn't benefit them, in fact...it hurts them since they don't show live hockey and their competition does.

This is more about the marketing of hockey than it is getting X number of live games broadcast nationally. Getting games broadcast on ESPN in prime time means ESPN has a vested interest in talking hockey leading up to prime time. I don't think that can be undervalued.

Sure, however, we already saw how much that ESPN marketing mattered when ESPN had the rights. The fact is even without the ESPN hype machine ratings are as high as they have been since '97

 

[Anisimovs AK]

The Spanish numbers ARE US viewers do they not count as US viewers because they are Bilingual and speak Spanish as a first language? Those numbers don't come from Mexico you know lol. We don't throw out French Canadian numbers from Quebec when we talk Canadian numbers.

Also.. man you are confusing me with someone else I've never given the NHL flak about the NBA ratings comparison, so sorry wrong guy not me at all. I don't really follow the NBA outside of playoffs don't care for it. I want us to get as big a deal as we can. I'm just a TV ratings junkie in rehab lol. I love tracking this stuff. Yeah I think you are confusing me with someone else I've been a long time lurker and don't post alot but we've agreed in alot of post before in the past you surely have me mistaken with another poster.

I didn't include digital rights MLS will get a separate digital rights deal too now that they rolled up their MLS Live programming into ESPN+. This is strictly about the US deal. We all know Canada is Hockey crazy, this is about the state of things in the US that's what important.

Except Univision is available in mexico, so just like CBC in places like Detroit or NBC in Vancouver there is overlap. Also MLS regularly gets trounced in ratings by the Mexican domestic league in its own country

 

[Anisimovs AK]

Rivalry Nights are a joke, its kind of insulting to hockey fans because we know better. Either they are trying to treat us like we are idiots or they think we are idiots. Either way, Wednesday night rivalry is stupid. Also no National Televised games on Thursday and Saturday nights is beyond stupid in my opinion, but they'll go up against monday night football?!?! Bottom line, they are not very creative, they don't push the envelope, they take the "safe" route with their programming and it really sucks!!!

clearly you missed the numerous articles about NBC doing away with Rivarly Night to showcase a larger variety of teams

 

[BattleBorn]

Sure, however, we already saw how much that ESPN marketing mattered when ESPN had the rights. The fact is even without the ESPN hype machine ratings are as high as they have been since '97

I think we can probably all agree we live in a completely different world than when ESPN had the rights.

If someone else ever gets the rights, we'll sit here on this same board and trash how NBC did when they had the rights. Status quo isn't necessarily better.

 

[eddygee]

Except Univision is available in mexico, so just like CBC in places like Detroit or NBC in Vancouver there is overlap. Also MLS regularly gets trounced in ratings by the Mexican domestic league in its own country

You don't understand how this works. The numbers reported are US Spanish numbers there is no overlap what so ever. Why does it feel like you are desperately trying to redirect the original conversation it doesn't change the fact about this being a pivotal year for NHL to stop ratings losses you can disagree about the amount I think NHL gets or even MLS but you are reaching and its obvious.

 

[eddygee]

Sure, however, we already saw how much that ESPN marketing mattered when ESPN had the rights. The fact is even without the ESPN hype machine ratings are as high as they have been since '97

I'm not sure where you are basing these claims from show data.

 

[jkrdevil]

MLS has multiple network deal...

Which was a joint bid by Fox-Espn (so the two entities did not bid against each other) for the sole purpose of preventing NBC from maintaining their rights and potentially gain exclusive rights (which NBC prefers).

Fox and ESPN doing joint bids together was their strategy to prevent NBCSN from gaining more rights. They also did this to prevent the PAC-12 to going to NBC.

If I were the NHL I would be leery of taking this bait. Nbc losing nhl rights could mean they cut bait on NBCSN (epl rights expire around the same time and nascar can easily be shifted to USA). That would mean taking a player out for the next negotiation and could potentially put them back in a mid-2000’s where they are negotiating without leverage and get squeezed.

 

[eddygee]

Which was a joint bid by Fox-Espn (so the two entities did not bid against each other) for the sole purpose of preventing NBC from maintaining their rights and potentially gain exclusive rights (which NBC prefers).

Fox and ESPN doing joint bids together was their strategy to prevent NBCSN from gaining more rights. They also did this to prevent the PAC-12 to going to NBC.

If I were the NHL I would be leery of taking this bait. Nbc losing nhl rights could mean they cut bait on NBCSN (epl rights expire around the same time and nascar can easily be shifted to USA). That would mean taking a player out for the next negotiation and could potentially put them back in a mid-2000’s where they are negotiating without leverage and get squeezed.

Yeah it's always in the best interest of a league to have as many broadcast partners as they can. If nothing else it helps you get more money than you would get with a exclusive deal especially if you have more than one. But its a delicate game and you have to time it right and know when to go exclusive and when to bring in more broadcast partners. If I'm NHL I stick with NBC I throw out a ridiculously high number that I know we won't get in hopes of getting 60-70% of. That strategy can sometimes bite you in the ass if you are dealing with a partner that doesn't value you. They can shut off negotiations completely or low ball NHL with a firm offer. If that happens then NHL should go the multiple broadcast partner route, it might not get the big money short term but long term NHL could benefit.

 

[Grudy0]

Yeah it's always in the best interest of a league to have as many broadcast partners as they can. If nothing else it helps you get more money than you would get with a exclusive deal especially if you have more than one. But its a delicate game and you have to time it right and know when to go exclusive and when to bring in more broadcast partners. If I'm NHL I stick with NBC I throw out a ridiculously high number that I know we won't get in hopes of getting 60-70% of. That strategy can sometimes bite you in the ass if you are dealing with a partner that doesn't value you. They can shut off negotiations completely or low ball NHL with a firm offer. If that happens then NHL should go the multiple broadcast partner route, it might not get the big money short term but long term NHL could benefit.

I think you're missing the point that was being made...

Once the US national contract for NHL games opens up, NBC will likely bid. Then there could be entities such as Turner and CBS bidding jointly to take a national contract from them. That's exactly how the NCAA ended up with March Madness - it was a joint bid between Turner and CBS. And the windows granted are for exclusive time periods; I recall MLS has different exclusive windows for both Fox and ESPN.

The ONLY entity that has separate contracts is the NFL - everyone else has a joint bid for English Language rights.

 

[powerstuck]

Yeah it's always in the best interest of a league to have as many broadcast partners as they can. If nothing else it helps you get more money than you would get with a exclusive deal especially if you have more than one. But its a delicate game and you have to time it right and know when to go exclusive and when to bring in more broadcast partners. If I'm NHL I stick with NBC I throw out a ridiculously high number that I know we won't get in hopes of getting 60-70% of. That strategy can sometimes bite you in the ass if you are dealing with a partner that doesn't value you. They can shut off negotiations completely or low ball NHL with a firm offer. If that happens then NHL should go the multiple broadcast partner route, it might not get the big money short term but long term NHL could benefit.

Well, last time Bell played the ''we're partners for longtime'' car, it didn't go well. Reports have it Bell offered up to 250M a year for NHL rights, and Rogers close to double that at 430ish.

Now, the big difference is in Canada there is no ''sports tv'' outside a cable package. So if you want NHL on TV you need a cable subscription. But also, hockey being by far the most popular of sports...summers are rough for sport TV networks.

In the US, the difference is every single network has something else besides hockey to offer.

I still believe both the Network and the League would prefer an exclusive rights holder...because the premium for being the exclusive is still very high.

 

[Big Z Man 1990]

I could see NBC staying on as over-the-air partner, but being replaced on cable by both FS1 and Paramount Network (the latter having the NHL as its first major sports broadcast contract)

 

[Man Machine]

Broadcast TV is slowly dying, as we all know. At some point even live sports (that is about the only thing that generates interest in the most desirable demographic anymore) will be bought up by something like Netflix.
This probably won't happen in 2021, however - unless the streaming giants really decide on going after broadcast already. They certainly can afford it.
Facebook of all companies is streaming games from the premier league in India as we speak.
On the other hand NHL isn't the hottest prospect for them, but they are going to bid for NFL for sure.

 

[powerstuck]

The thing with Netflix and Facebook of this world is those giants still don't have the tools.

They don't have the cameras, the production studios, the personnel who does it all so you and me can sit our fat ass in a lazy-boy and enjoy the game.

There is a difference between producing a movie and a 3 hours long live event.

Could Netflix become a partner to, given a fee, partner up with a network and offer total replays of all games...sure that could be it but them taking 100% of the production cost and making the product as it happens, nope I don't think they are there just yet.

 

[SwaggySpungo]

ESPN is the 24 Hour Cable News of sports in America. The benefit of ESPN is that their channels are filled with sports discussion and commentary more than the live sports they show. Programming like this is how you get casual viewers that turn into fans.

There's no real benefit to ESPN talking hockey like they talk other sports because A.) It's not as popular and B.) turning casual fans into hockey fans doesn't benefit them, in fact...it hurts them since they don't show live hockey and their competition does.

This is more about the marketing of hockey than it is getting X number of live games broadcast nationally. Getting games broadcast on ESPN in prime time means ESPN has a vested interest in talking hockey leading up to prime time. I don't think that can be undervalued.

The NHL was on ESPN for years and years and years. There was absolutely no benefit to the NHL at all. The rare time ESPN talked hockey, they made fun of it and insulted the league.

Anyone who claimes the NHL needs ESPN simply wasn’t watching in the early 2000’s.

The best thing the NHL did was leave ESPN. The worst thing the NHL ever did was leave FOX for ABC/ESPN.

 

[Anisimovs AK]

I suppose the kindest thing I can say here is that this statement just isn’t accurate.

There are networks like NBC, CBS, or FOX that could reach just as many fans. They all have digital footprints and could very easily match ESPN in terms of marketing strength.

ESPN’s popularity is on the wane in the US for several reasons. Just Google “ESPN decline” and you can spend an afternoon reading all about it. ESPN can’t do anything for the NHL that anyone else couldn’t.

I’m tired of the notion that the NHL needs some kind of broadcast savior to stave off its implosion in the US. The NHL is a tremendous product that can work on any network if they just market it.

Also consider that the NHL has been getting ratings higher than anything on ESPN from 98-04, so this "NHL needs ESPN" thing is wrong on every level

 

[jkrdevil]

The thing with Netflix and Facebook of this world is those giants still don't have the tools.

They don't have the cameras, the production studios, the personnel who does it all so you and me can sit our fat ass in a lazy-boy and enjoy the game.

There is a difference between producing a movie and a 3 hours long live event.

Could Netflix become a partner to, given a fee, partner up with a network and offer total replays of all games...sure that could be it but them taking 100% of the production cost and making the product as it happens, nope I don't think they are there just yet.

And if it gets to the point where there aren’t slim margins because of the infrastructure involved the league’s at that point would just cut out the middle man (which a Netflix and Amazon) and just sell directly to the consumer.

Hell one of the pioneers of streaming video was Major League Baseball doing it themselves. Ultimately what they sold to Disney was the technology to do it.

——
As far as the next rights deal, as long as reaching a mass audience is a goal having an over the air broadcast partner is actually becoming more important than it was 10 years ago because of cord cutting. Cord cutters aren’t getting rid of their TVs, they are dropping cable in favor of streaming and using antennas to get the free channels. You are likely going to see a reverse of the migration to cable trend of the last decade.

 

[UNITEDSTATESOFHOCKEY]

If they don't sign the TV rights over to ESPN, NHL popularity is doomed. ESPN is by far the biggest sports broadcaster in the United States and even the world. They have the most followers on every social media site by a wide margin. This is especially important in todays age where more and more sports are being consumed on social media. Social media is where sports leagues can gain casual fans and easily promote their product. ESPN hardly ever posts any NHL highlights on twitter. I dont blame them, why should they? They dont have the TV rights theres no incentive to promote hockey. Any decision but ESPN is the wrong one.

I don't think you fully understand the PR nightmare ESPN is going through in the states right now. Unless you are a frat kid or a massive NBA fan, you hate ESPN and only watch it when they are showing your team...Their day programming is a joke, they politicize everything which is infuriating to most people that use sports as an escape from that trash. They are constantly laying people off because of the effect these things have on their ratings and revenue. ESPN+ streaming ability has been a minor improvement but they only launched that because more and more people are ditching cable and sports packages. ESPN is nothing like TSN in canada. Its ran but idiots, their on-air talent know about the NFL and the NBA... they do alright with college football because they have a wide net to cover a lot of games on saturdays but FOX is closing in on them in a hurry..... ESPN is not the answer for the NHL unless they clean up their business model and stock sucking!

 

[UNITEDSTATESOFHOCKEY]

The NHL would do better without ESPN but also get out of their own way. Their scheduling of national games is a joke, They could be doing a national game of the week on fridays or saturday nights but they don't. Their blackout restrictions are still in the stone age.... no sports leagues do Blackouts anymore except the NHL.... The powers that be at the NHL and NBC have no imagination and that's why the ratings are stuck in the muck!

 

[rfournier103]

I don't think you fully understand the PR nightmare ESPN is going through in the states right now. Unless you are a frat kid or a massive NBA fan, you hate ESPN and only watch it when they are showing your team...Their day programming is a joke, they politicize everything which is infuriating to most people that use sports as an escape from that trash. They are constantly laying people off because of the effect these things have on their ratings and revenue. ESPN+ streaming ability has been a minor improvement but they only launched that because more and more people are ditching cable and sports packages. ESPN is nothing like TSN in canada. Its ran but idiots, their on-air talent know about the NFL and the NBA... they do alright with college football because they have a wide net to cover a lot of games on saturdays but FOX is closing in on them in a hurry..... ESPN is not the answer for the NHL unless they clean up their business model and stock sucking!

1000% this.

I HATE ESPN.

 

[Svechhammer]

they politicize everything which is infuriating to most people that use sports as an escape from that trash.

Yeah, because sports were always so separate from politics. Its not like there is forced patriotism inherent with every sport, with national anthems, military awareness nights, military flyovers, etc. Oh, and lets not forget the broadcasted prayers to Jesus before every NASCAR race. But you're right, ESPN really took it too far with... uhhh... something...