Fun facts: Takeaway and Giveawy Stats - Defense
- Thread starter dubplatepressure
- Start date
MastuhNinks
Registered User
Real-time stats are not really that important because they're not clearly defined and vary from team to team. Nevermind the fact that their premise is flawed (for example you'll typically see a lot of good players lead in giveaways, a consequence of having the puck and passing a lot).
If I recall correctly, the Leafs lead in hits, blocked shots and giveaways last season all by a decent margin. Is it more likely that that's just a coincidence, or maybe, just maybe, are the stat guys at the ACC a little quick on the draw when it comes to tallying a stat? The Leafs were 1st in road hits too so it's safe to say they were a physical team regardless of their stat counters, they were 3rd in road blocked shots, but they weren't even in the top half of the league in giveaways (17th) on the road.
Is anyone really going to argue that the Leafs gave the puck away nearly 3 times as often at home (405 giveaways) than they did on the road (149 giveaways) and it's not just a case of real-time stats being unreliable?
If I recall correctly, the Leafs lead in hits, blocked shots and giveaways last season all by a decent margin. Is it more likely that that's just a coincidence, or maybe, just maybe, are the stat guys at the ACC a little quick on the draw when it comes to tallying a stat? The Leafs were 1st in road hits too so it's safe to say they were a physical team regardless of their stat counters, they were 3rd in road blocked shots, but they weren't even in the top half of the league in giveaways (17th) on the road.
Is anyone really going to argue that the Leafs gave the puck away nearly 3 times as often at home (405 giveaways) than they did on the road (149 giveaways) and it's not just a case of real-time stats being unreliable?
agreed. something is very wrong at the ACC. blocked shots, hits, shots, always a miss.
The Legend
GW
- Feb 24, 2004
- 5,490
- 611
I think that questioning the reliance on the data for the giveaways stat is a strawman argument. We all know that stat is a fickle one, completely prone to interpretation. But what the stat does do is show an issue that we all have observed (unless you've got those blue glasses on) - we are not very good at keeping the puck. It's just another reason why we need MORE Jake Gardiner, and not less. It just sucks that Randy didn't realize that before Game 1 last year.
The Apologist
Apologizing for Leaf garbage since 1979
But what we observe is also clearly open to interpretation. It is not a strawman to question using a stat that has been shown to be extremely variable depending on the recorder as any indication of a team or players abilities.
Perhaps using the road stats is more valid as it does give a general consensus of their abilities across the league.
As for the table mentioned previously, why use average?
If you take Bill Gates income and mine and divide it by two, do you think the average income would in any way be a representation of our actual incomes?
Out of all the names mentioned the only one im concerned with is Gunnnarson. Could never figure out the " love in " for this guy. Very weak in his own end. No physical presence at all and his offence is nowhere. Horrible shot in the offensive zone from the point. Ive never liked this guy. For myself, hes our biggest weakness. Phaneuf needs a much better partner. Somethng has to happen at that spot and im 100% sure Nonis/Carlyle and co. are very aware of this.
Duke Silver
Truce?
There once was a defenceman named Niklas Lidstrom who didn't have much of a physical presence in his own zone. He went on to win 7 Norris Trophies. He did it with extremely good body positioning and a smart stick.
Now, before you leap to the conclusion that I think Gunnarsson is as good as Lidstrom, stop right there. I'm not. I'm just showing you that being an effective defenceman does not require that you play physical.
Gunnarsson does many of the little things right that many people seem to glaze over, as evidenced by your evaluation of him. He's a steady, non-flashy, dependable defenceman whom two head coaches have now deemed fit as a worthy first-pairing option with Dion. He and Dion face the toughest competition of any defenceman in the league.
ACC1224
Super Elite, Passing ALL Tests since 2002
- Aug 19, 2002
- 73,787
- 39,292
That's not necessarily true, he's there by default. They tried many others hoping for a better fit.
Duke Silver
Truce?
What, last year when Gunnarsson was hurt and struggling?
The year prior I don't recall there being many changes to that pairing.
MastuhNinks
Registered User
Questioning the reliability of an argument based on a statistic with questionable reliability isn't really a straw-man.
diceman934
Help is on the way.
I knew you would not.....as you did not believe the stats last year that had Dion as the clear leader in this stat....
I state do them for yourself and you will see that the ACC guy is bang on...
diceman934
Help is on the way.
Yeah, people are quick to believe the positive stats and not the negative ones....a player who gives up the puck is going to try harder to regain it so that their mistake does not end up in the net.
As I track the stat my self I can also share with all that we have a small group of forwards who create the GW as they are not near where they should be when we send the puck up the wall, which creates the giveaway... Funny that one of them did not dress last game...Ashton was among the worse. The other 3 get considerable more ice time. JVR, Raymond, Kessel these players are constantly beat down the wall by the pinching D man thus creating the turn over.
Hurt
Registered User
- Apr 6, 2009
- 28,303
- 799
I think improbable is probably a better word. It's LESS likely that one (or a few in the league) are doing it right rather than 25-29 doing it right.
The Apologist
Apologizing for Leaf garbage since 1979
Sounds like a challenge for tomorrow. I will of course need to understand how you qualify what is a giveaway and what isnt.
