Fun facts: Takeaway and Giveawy Stats - Defense

[dubplatepressure]

Fun fact. 5 of our starting 6 blue line are in the top-10 in giveaways among defenseman in the NHL right now:

1. Gunnar
3. Reilly
7. Ranger
8. Franson
10. Phaneuf

Compounded by an additional 3 players in the top-15 of all players forwards included:

1. Gunnar
3. Reilly
7. Kessel
8. Lupul
9. Kadri
11. Ranger
12. Franson
14. Phaneuf

Yes - these stats aren't perfect. Yes, we also have 4 players in the top 30 in takeaways - Bozak, Rielly, Ranger, and Franson. Our defensemen alone have more giveaways in total (66) than 20 other teams do in total.

Team | HomeGP | RoadGP | TotalGP | HomeG/a | RoadG/a | HomeG/a/GP | RoadG/a/GP

SAN JOSE | 5 | 3 | 8 | 64 | 12 | 12.8 | 4.0
PITTSBURGH | 5 | 3 | 8 | 26 | 20 | 5.2 | 6.7
TORONTO | 5 | 4 | 9 | 105 | 29 | 21.0 | 7.3
COLORADO | 4 | 4 | 8 | 26 | 32 | 6.5 | 8.0
PHOENIX | 3 | 6 | 9 | 13 | 54 | 4.3 | 9.0
VANCOUVER | 4 | 5 | 9 | 24 | 29 | 6.0 | 5.8
ST LOUIS | 5 | 2 | 7 | 13 | 14 | 2.6 | 7.0
MONTREAL | 4 | 4 | 8 | 22 | 30 | 5.5 | 7.5
EDMONTON | 3 | 6 | 9 | 41 | 46 | 13.7 | 7.7
TAMPA BAY | 5 | 3 | 8 | 43 | 11 | 8.6 | 3.7
NY ISLANDERS | 5 | 3 | 8 | 50 | 20 | 10.0 | 6.7
DETROIT | 4 | 5 | 9 | 44 | 38 | 11.0 | 7.6
ANAHEIM | 4 | 3 | 7 | 40 | 18 | 10.0 | 6.0
CALGARY | 3 | 4 | 7 | 34 | 27 | 11.3 | 6.8
CAROLINA | 5 | 4 | 9 | 52 | 20 | 10.4 | 5.0
CHICAGO | 6 | 2 | 8 | 66 | 5 | 11.0 | 2.5
LOS ANGELES | 3 | 6 | 9 | 37 | 26 | 12.3 | 4.3
OTTAWA | 2 | 6 | 8 | 13 | 57 | 6.5 | 9.5
BOSTON | 4 | 3 | 7 | 30 | 15 | 7.5 | 5.0
WINNIPEG | 6 | 2 | 8 | 69 | 21 | 11.5 | 10.5
WASHINGTON | 6 | 2 | 8 | 52 | 6 | 8.7 | 3.0
FLORIDA | 4 | 5 | 9 | 23 | 24 | 5.8 | 4.8
MINNESOTA | 4 | 5 | 9 | 35 | 25 | 8.8 | 5.0
NEW JERSEY | 2 | 6 | 8 | 24 | 36 | 12.0 | 6.0
DALLAS | 3 | 4 | 7 | 26 | 35 | 8.7 | 8.8
NASHVILLE | 5 | 3 | 8 | 46 | 11 | 9.2 | 3.7
COLUMBUS | 2 | 5 | 7 | 8 | 38 | 4.0 | 7.6
BUFFALO | 6 | 4 | 10 | 47 | 32 | 7.8 | 8.0
PHILADELPHIA | 5 | 3 | 8 | 40 | 24 | 8.0 | 8.0
NY RANGERS | 0 | 7 | 7 | 0 | 44 | 0.0 | 6.3
Avg | | | | | | 9.1 | 6.5

Thoughts?

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[Glenn Isildur Healy]

Everyone talks about all the great pieces this team has (Gardiner, Rielly, Kessel, JVR, etc, etc) but in reality they are just that

They are individuals that cant play like a team

 

[Mowerman]

Everyone talks about all the great pieces this team has (Gardiner, Rielly, Kessel, JVR, etc, etc) but in reality they are just that

They are individuals that cant play like a team

 

[BIitz]

My thoughts are the team doesn't care about the puck. Passes 5 feet away from the blade, Kessel pointlessly chipping the puck off the boards and to the other teams defenders with no center support.

Let me say something about advanced stats that applies here. Justin Williams, an advanced stat "superstar" does something I never see our team do. If the kings are changing, he holds onto the puck and circles back. How many times did we dump with no chase and give them an easy entry back into our zone? I know it's the "safe" play, but if you're just dumping the puck and going for a change that means the fresh legs will 90% have to start their shift in their own zone, and a cycle of dump and change begins.

Just watch them and how the handle the puck. The team has no value for the puck. Back on the Kings, watching them against the Preds (2 days ago) and everyone just WANTED that puck. Our team is happy to have the puck, but they don't WANT it.

 

[TheOtherSide]

Good job Gardiner!

 

[Beleafer4]

Good job Gardiner!

Which is ironic because everyone keeps complaining about how high-risk he is

 

[Hurt]

Fun fact: The guy/lady who does the 'real time' stats at the ACC is clearly a dope. Every stat is inflated at the ACC.

 

[Leafs at Knight]

Guess we have different definitions then fun... I thought we already went over this 1000 times of how the ACC people are terrible at doing stats, especially giveaways and takeaways. And how do they judge giveaways? If a player just lifts the puck out into center ice to get a line change off, and the other team gets possession is that not a giveaway. Plus there are a lot more dumb ways I puck could be judged as a giveaway.

 

[Hero]

They picked up bad habits during that winning streak. Things will change and they'll be back to playing around .600 hockey.

 

[dubplatepressure]

Guess we have different definitions then fun... I thought we already went over this 1000 times of how the ACC people are terrible at doing stats, especially giveaways and takeaways. And how do they judge giveaways? If a player just lifts the puck out into center ice to get a line change off, and the other team gets possession is that not a giveaway. Plus there are a lot more dumb ways I puck could be judged as a giveaway.

See I thought I made sure to mention that it's clearly not a perfect system. It doesn't mean that the giveaways aren't happening. I don't buy the dismissal based on denial - I'm watching these games.

 

[Penalty Kill Icing*]

I did say in GDT that we lead in giveaways while being aware of our ACC stats guy.

Our defense is no conference final type. But I always use away stats for this because it is averaged over 29 arenas. ACC counter is on drugs.

 

[Penalty Kill Icing*]

See I thought I made sure to mention that it's clearly not a perfect system. It doesn't mean that the giveaways aren't happening. I don't buy the dismissal based on denial - I'm watching these games.

Giveaways are happening. And we are 12th in the leauge in that matter for me because Leafs are 12th in away stats for giveaways.

 

[bonjovi0308]

I'm happy Gardiner is not in the top 5. He took way too much **** than he deserved.

 

[dubplatepressure]

I did say in GDT that we lead in giveaways while being aware of our ACC stats guy.

Our defense is no conference final type. But I always use away stats for this because it is averaged over 29 arenas. ACC counter is on drugs.

I wonder if a statistical comparison would support the theory. I'm saying because I think people may *think* the ACC stats guy is questionable, but I don't know that anyone actually knows this.

 

[Asif16*]

These aint fun facts.

These could be called depressing facts.

 

[Asif16*]

Anyone else miss Mark fraser?

 

[HarrisonFord]

Fun fact: The guy/lady who does the 'real time' stats at the ACC is clearly a dope. Every stat is inflated at the ACC.

Supporting evidence: Leafs had 1 giveaway tonight

 

[BigWilly]

I wonder if a statistical comparison would support the theory. I'm saying because I think people may *think* the ACC stats guy is questionable, but I don't know that anyone actually knows this.

They have many more giveaways/takeaways at home than on the road. At a certain point you have to acknowledge that this isn't a fluke.

 

[dubplatepressure]

They have many more giveaways/takeaways at home than on the road. At a certain point you have to acknowledge that this isn't a fluke.

Does that invalidate the stat, or simply suggest we're a tighter road team than a home team?

 

[Penalty Kill Icing*]

I wonder if a statistical comparison would support the theory. I'm saying because I think people may *think* the ACC stats guy is questionable, but I don't know that anyone actually knows this.

Well, it doesn't take a lot to figure. We had 405 giveaways at home (1st). We had 149 giveaways away (17th). More than double the giveaways counted at ACC.

We were 13-9-2 at home and 13-8-3 away. We got 1 more point away than home. Yet the huge difference in two stats. Did Leafs magically become an ECHL team on home ice to have 405 giveaways.

Guy at ACC might be the only one doing correctly in NHL. But because you are trying to compare and rank Leafs based on giveaways, first necessity is that all stats counters are on same page which they aren't.

 

[Hurt]

2012-13 Season:

Toronto total giveaways in 48 games: 554

Home give aways in 24 games: 405 (16.88 a game)
Away give aways in 24 games: 149 (6.21 a game)

Is it possible that we were 10+ giveaways worse every home game? Yes. Is that the reasoning? Probably not.

 

[Morguee]

Supporting evidence: Leafs had 1 giveaway tonight

Can't giveaway something you don't have. But ya, the stat guy at ACC is a little over zealous.

 

[TheLeastOfTheBunch]

Let's check last season's totals:

Leafs (2012-2013):
Home + Away:
- 1st in league with 554 total giveaways

Home:
- 1st in league with 405 total giveaways

Away:
- 17th in league with 179 total giveaways

405 giveaways in ACC (led the league) vs 179 giveaways at away games (17th in league). Most likely, the ACC guy is inflating numbers here

 

[dubplatepressure]

Let's check last season's season totals:

Leafs:
- 1st in league with 554 total giveaways
- 1st in league with 405 total giveaways at home games
- 17th in league with 179 total giveaways at away games

405 giveaways in ACC (led the league) vs 179 giveaways at away games (17th in league). Most likely, the ACC guy is inflating numbers here

Correlation is not a cause. My point is that we may very well be a better road team than a home one. It's definitely been the case in previous seasons.

 

[Diatomic]

Unless you personally know or have investigated the Giveaway counter person at the ACC to prove that his giveaway numbers are incorrect, I'm relying on the stats.