Fun facts: Takeaway and Giveawy Stats - Defense

Discussion in 'Toronto Maple Leafs' started by dubplatepressure, Oct 19, 2013.

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  1. dubplatepressure

    dubplatepressure Registered User

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    Fun fact. 5 of our starting 6 blue line are in the top-10 in giveaways among defenseman in the NHL right now:

    1. Gunnar
    3. Reilly
    7. Ranger
    8. Franson
    10. Phaneuf

    Compounded by an additional 3 players in the top-15 of all players forwards included:

    1. Gunnar
    3. Reilly
    7. Kessel
    8. Lupul
    9. Kadri
    11. Ranger
    12. Franson
    14. Phaneuf

    Yes - these stats aren't perfect. Yes, we also have 4 players in the top 30 in takeaways - Bozak, Rielly, Ranger, and Franson. Our defensemen alone have more giveaways in total (66) than 20 other teams do in total.



    Thoughts?
     
    Last edited by moderator ULF_55: Oct 20, 2013
  2. Glenn Isildur Healy

    Glenn Isildur Healy Registered User

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    Everyone talks about all the great pieces this team has (Gardiner, Rielly, Kessel, JVR, etc, etc) but in reality they are just that

    They are individuals that cant play like a team
     
  3. Mowerman

    Mowerman Registered User

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    :laugh:
     
  4. BIitz

    BIitz GRANT = SOFT

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    My thoughts are the team doesn't care about the puck. Passes 5 feet away from the blade, Kessel pointlessly chipping the puck off the boards and to the other teams defenders with no center support.

    Let me say something about advanced stats that applies here. Justin Williams, an advanced stat "superstar" does something I never see our team do. If the kings are changing, he holds onto the puck and circles back. How many times did we dump with no chase and give them an easy entry back into our zone? I know it's the "safe" play, but if you're just dumping the puck and going for a change that means the fresh legs will 90% have to start their shift in their own zone, and a cycle of dump and change begins.

    Just watch them and how the handle the puck. The team has no value for the puck. Back on the Kings, watching them against the Preds (2 days ago) and everyone just WANTED that puck. Our team is happy to have the puck, but they don't WANT it.
     
  5. TheOtherSide

    TheOtherSide Registered User

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    Good job Gardiner!
     
  6. Beleafer4

    Beleafer4 Registered User

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    Which is ironic because everyone keeps complaining about how high-risk he is
     
  7. Hurt

    Hurt Moderator

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    Fun fact: The guy/lady who does the 'real time' stats at the ACC is clearly a dope. Every stat is inflated at the ACC.
     
  8. Leafs at Knight

    Leafs at Knight ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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    Guess we have different definitions then fun... I thought we already went over this 1000 times of how the ACC people are terrible at doing stats, especially giveaways and takeaways. And how do they judge giveaways? If a player just lifts the puck out into center ice to get a line change off, and the other team gets possession is that not a giveaway. Plus there are a lot more dumb ways I puck could be judged as a giveaway.
     
  9. Hero

    Hero Uncle Leo

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    They picked up bad habits during that winning streak. Things will change and they'll be back to playing around .600 hockey.
     
  10. dubplatepressure

    dubplatepressure Registered User

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    See I thought I made sure to mention that it's clearly not a perfect system. It doesn't mean that the giveaways aren't happening. I don't buy the dismissal based on denial - I'm watching these games.
     
  11. I did say in GDT that we lead in giveaways while being aware of our ACC stats guy.

    Our defense is no conference final type. But I always use away stats for this because it is averaged over 29 arenas. ACC counter is on drugs.
     
  12. Giveaways are happening. And we are 12th in the leauge in that matter for me because Leafs are 12th in away stats for giveaways.
     
  13. bonjovi0308

    bonjovi0308 Registered User

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    I'm happy Gardiner is not in the top 5. He took way too much **** than he deserved.
     
  14. dubplatepressure

    dubplatepressure Registered User

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    I wonder if a statistical comparison would support the theory. I'm saying because I think people may *think* the ACC stats guy is questionable, but I don't know that anyone actually knows this.
     
  15. Asif16*

    Asif16* Guest

    These aint fun facts.

    These could be called depressing facts.
     
  16. Asif16*

    Asif16* Guest

    Anyone else miss Mark fraser?
     
  17. HarrisonFord

    HarrisonFord Mindawakebodyasleep

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    Supporting evidence: Leafs had 1 giveaway tonight
     
  18. BigWilly

    BigWilly Registered User

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    They have many more giveaways/takeaways at home than on the road. At a certain point you have to acknowledge that this isn't a fluke.
     
  19. dubplatepressure

    dubplatepressure Registered User

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    Does that invalidate the stat, or simply suggest we're a tighter road team than a home team?
     
  20. Well, it doesn't take a lot to figure. We had 405 giveaways at home (1st). We had 149 giveaways away (17th). More than double the giveaways counted at ACC.

    We were 13-9-2 at home and 13-8-3 away. We got 1 more point away than home. Yet the huge difference in two stats. Did Leafs magically become an ECHL team on home ice to have 405 giveaways.

    Guy at ACC might be the only one doing correctly in NHL. But because you are trying to compare and rank Leafs based on giveaways, first necessity is that all stats counters are on same page which they aren't.
     
  21. Hurt

    Hurt Moderator

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    2012-13 Season:

    Toronto total giveaways in 48 games: 554

    Home give aways in 24 games: 405 (16.88 a game)
    Away give aways in 24 games: 149 (6.21 a game)

    Is it possible that we were 10+ giveaways worse every home game? Yes. Is that the reasoning? Probably not.
     
  22. Morguee

    Morguee Registered User

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    Can't giveaway something you don't have. But ya, the stat guy at ACC is a little over zealous.
     
  23. TheLeastOfTheBunch

    TheLeastOfTheBunch Franchise Centre

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    Let's check last season's totals:

    Leafs (2012-2013):
    Home + Away:
    - 1st in league with 554 total giveaways

    Home:
    - 1st in league with 405 total giveaways

    Away:
    - 17th in league with 179 total giveaways

    405 giveaways in ACC (led the league) vs 179 giveaways at away games (17th in league). Most likely, the ACC guy is inflating numbers here
     
  24. dubplatepressure

    dubplatepressure Registered User

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    Correlation is not a cause. My point is that we may very well be a better road team than a home one. It's definitely been the case in previous seasons.
     
  25. Diatomic

    Diatomic Mitch Matthewlander

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    Unless you personally know or have investigated the Giveaway counter person at the ACC to prove that his giveaway numbers are incorrect, I'm relying on the stats.
     

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