TSN: From @GagnonFrancois: Habs should consider trading core players.

[417]

Lecavalier looked like he was out of gas and PRESTO!!.....goes to L.A and kicks ass..a change of scenery can do wonders sometimes.

I can see Plekanec going to Florida or New Jersey
Markov to a western team....San Jose, Dallas or Anaheim

The only way the Kings agreed to trade for Vinny was because he promised them he'd retire at the end of the year...so, for them, no financial committment beyond this year

With Markov, there IS financial committment beyond this year.

It will be extremely difficult to move any veteran, aging player, with term on his contract at the trade deadline.

there's too much uncertainty for next year

 

[NeptunesTrident]

It really depends on how badly Bergevin wants them gone. He could always retain salary on Markov and Plekanec. Odds are they remain on the roster and Markov gets dangled next trade deadline, especially if the team is struggling to make the playoffs.

 

[sampollock]

If the cupboard is bare as they say:
1. markov--has has left, could get a decent pick or young guy
2. plecs -- gas in tank, great add for teams that need that push, both though contracts ?
3. DSP -- low draft pick
4. wiese -- great deal, warrior , for 3rd rounder
5. MT for a pack of smokes

 

[kingdok]

...you'd be surprised how many GMs go nuts over puck moving D at the deadline, especially one as celebrated as Markov...he picks it up a bit (with less TOI) and he'll garner a 1st...as will Pleks to the right team looking to make a push...have faith, amigo...

When Kaberle got traded to the Bruins, he was a worse player then Markov is. Leafs got a first and young player (Colborne) for him.

 

[MasterD]

I will be dissapointed if we don't get a 1st for Markov and Plekanec.

Right now I don't think Markov gets us a 1st. After the all-star break though, if he comes back better, I think other GMs could consider getting him for a push knowing they have to play him less than 20 mins a game.

Then again, the guy has never been great in the playoffs... wouldn't be my target.

 

[417]

Tank or no tank...I would hope that the next trades on the Habs will involve shipping out Gilbert & Weise

Both are UFA's, both are veterans that playoffs team covet before the deadline.

Gilbert is an experience Dman, a righty to boot...teams always looking for this type of Dman

Same goes for Weise, a team looking to add depth scoring would love to add a guy like Weise

Those are 2 no-brainer moves...neither player should be important to the Habs push towards the playoffs or tank.

 

[beowulf]

I would think a good GM would be open to moving anyone, yet even Price and Subban, but of course the return would have to be substantial. I think part of it will come down to if the team makes the playoffs and if it dosen't, how high of a pick does it end up with.

 

[MasterD]

The only way the Kings agreed to trade for Vinny was because he promised them he'd retire at the end of the year...so, for them, no financial committment beyond this year

With Markov, there IS financial committment beyond this year.

It will be extremely difficult to move any veteran, aging player, with term on his contract at the trade deadline.

there's too much uncertainty for next year

A promise is just that, a verbal agreement. If he does good until the end of the year I don't see Vinny retiring, especially now back under the sun.

 

[DangerDave]

he's not on pace for 60pts...Plekanec had 10pts in his first 9 games, he has 24pts in the next 40 games including 4 goals.

As for what Chicago gave up for Vermette, this has been mentioned several times, but Vermette was a UFA...he was a rental

plekanec is signed for another 2 years at 6M per year. As Bob McKenzie said and as I've been saying for weeks now, with the cap flattening out, no one is going to trade for that contract without sending one back....

It would be difficult to move Plekanec if he was playing well, imagine now that he's been crap basically the entire year

There's an inflated sense of Plekanec's worth league wide, I don't think he's seen as valuable league wide, as he's seen in MTL....

Same thing with Timmonen, he was a UFA....Markov is not

Trading salary is one thing, trading salary with term, on aging players who are in decline, is a whole other

So you retain salary. Retain 50% or whatever and 3M a year for Plek looks pretty appealing. If we're rebuilding/retooling, you won't be near the ceiling. And it's 55 points.

 

[417]

A promise is just that, a verbal agreement. If he does good until the end of the year I don't see Vinny retiring, especially now back under the sun.

Well the trade was conditional on this, I don't see him going back on his own word for this. He was desperate to get out of Philly, Los Angeles and Lombardi made that possible on the condition that this would be a last shot at getting the Cup on a real Cup contender

I don't see him going back on that

 

[shawdowmaker]

Gainey went after winners ... Bergevin goes after bargains and 4th liners but anyways to anwser the question. I would like to see the habs move DD, Plekanec, Flynn, DSP, Beaulieu, Markov, Emelin.

 

[hototogisu]

Gainey went after winners ... Bergevin goes after bargains and 4th liners but anyways to anwser the question. I would like to see the habs move DD, Plekanec, Flynn, DSP, Beaulieu, Markov, Emelin.

I'll take a hundred of Bergevin's bargain bin moves vs. one Scott Gomez trade, thank you very much...

 

[417]

So you retain salary. Retain 50% or whatever and 3M a year for Plek looks pretty appealing. If we're rebuilding/retooling, you won't be near the ceiling. And it's 55 points.

Again...Plekanec's season has gone like this

First 9 games = 10pts
Remaining 41 games = 24pts (including 4 goals)

The larger sample of games is more indicative of his pace then the smaller one...and that's a 8G 40A pace over 82 games.

He's not getting better/younger...

 

[Sorinth]

See my post in another thread on the destruction of 'middle class' players in nhl. Chicago traded saad ffs. They get it. Habs have room for 4 10 mill contracts, and the rest get 1.5.

Bergy is clueless about this. Chicago is not.

If Weiss wants more than 1.5 mill goodbye.

If trading Saad is an example of them getting it, is signing Anisimov to a 4.55m per year deal a sign of them not getting it?

Chicago can afford 10+ contracts because Keith and Hossa have a vastly undervalued cap hit thanks to deals that are no longer allowed.

The real difference is that when they spent 4m on a defensive defenceman they got Hjarlmarsson when we did we got Emelin. Bergevin and company simply aren't good evaluators of talent. Which is also why we are paying Subban 9m, instead of giving him a Keith like contract when we had the chance.

 

[Miller Time]

I'll take a hundred of Bergevin's bargain bin moves vs. one Scott Gomez trade, thank you very much...

How bout neither.

Inability to learn/adapt/improve is as bad, or worse, in my books.

At least Gainey had the sense to acknowledge he didn't have it to be a GM and quietly faded back into other roles.

Bargainbin doesn't show the humility or common sense of learning from mistakes or actively trying to rectify them.

 

[417]

If trading Saad is an example of them getting it, is signing Anisimov to a 4.55m per year deal a sign of them not getting it?

Chicago can afford 10+ contracts because Keith and Hossa have a vastly undervalued cap hit thanks to deals that are no longer allowed.

The real difference is that when they spent 4m on a defensive defenceman they got Hjarlmarsson when we did we got Emelin. Bergevin and company simply aren't good evaluators of talent. Which is also why we are paying Subban 9m, instead of giving him a Keith like contract when we had the chance.

Keith signed a 13yr contract...this was not possible when it was time to sign Subban

Many of you who wanted Subban to sign a long extension coming off his entry level deal, may not realize, but it would mean that he'd be up for an extension after this year or next.

if you think 9Mper year is a lot now...can you imagine what it might cost to sign Subban this summer or next? With unrestricted free agency tempting him?

 

[CristianoRonaldo]

In MTL we prefer to lose players for nothing than sell them at deadline...

 

[LePoche69]

How bout neither.

Inability to learn/adapt/improve is as bad, or worse, in my books.

At least Gainey had the sense to acknowledge he didn't have it to be a GM and quietly faded back into other roles.

Bargainbin doesn't show the humility or common sense of learning from mistakes or actively trying to rectify them.

How do you know? It is the first real crisis the team have. And if anything, Price injury is a blessing since it reveals the extend of the mistakes in personnel evaluation. So knowing if Bergevin is learning from mistakes and ready to rectify them starts now.

 

[Sorinth]

Again...Plekanec's season has gone like this

First 9 games = 10pts
Remaining 41 games = 24pts (including 4 goals)

The larger sample of games is more indicative of his pace then the smaller one...and that's a 8G 40A pace over 82 games.

He's not getting better/younger...

So even after the entire team's offence has dried up he's still producing around 50 points. That to me is a sign that he isn't finished. For instances Pacioretty has 25 points in those 41 games, should we consider him over the hill as well?

 

[Sorinth]

Keith signed a 13yr contract...this was not possible when it was time to sign Subban

Many of you who wanted Subban to sign a long extension coming off his entry level deal, may not realize, but it would mean that he'd be up for an extension after this year or next.

if you think 9Mper year is a lot now...can you imagine what it might cost to sign Subban this summer or next? With unrestricted free agency tempting him?

Yes it was possible. The summer Bergevin took over we still had the old CBA rules and could sign him to a crazy deal just like Minnesota signed Parise and Suter to crazy long deals.

 

[417]

So even after the entire team's offence has dried up he's still producing around 50 points. That to me is a sign that he isn't finished. For instances Pacioretty has 25 points in those 41 games, should we consider him over the hill as well?

Pacioretty isn't a 33-34 year old player...

No one said Plekanec is finished, but the arrow isn't pointing up for him, it's pointing down

 

[417]

Yes it was possible. The summer Bergevin took over we still had the old CBA rules and could sign him to a crazy deal just like Minnesota signed Parise and Suter to crazy long deals.

So you think that the Habs should of signed Subban to a 13yr contract coming off Entry Level Contract?

Hmmmm....ok then

You realize that the deals Parise/Suter signed were as UFA's...not as RFA's right?

 

[Joannie9]

If one center has to go it has to be Desharnais not Eller. Eller is the perfect 3rd liner. He's got size, he's good defensively, he's a playoff performer and can also be used on the wing. Useful player. We can find Desharnais like players everywhere.

 

[Miller Time]

How do you know? It is the first real crisis the team have. And if anything, Price injury is a blessing since it reveals the extend of the mistakes in personnel evaluation. So knowing if Bergevin is learning from mistakes and ready to rectify them starts now.

he's been on the job going on 5 years soon.

Ryder - Briere - Parenteau - Semin...

Desharnais extension, Emelin extension, Therrien extension...

condescending arrogance and play station commentary last offseason...

constant excuse delivery...

doubling down on Therrien, despite the obviousness of his failure (refusal to accept/acknowledge his extension was a mistake and take action to fix it)...


this isn't little league. He's been on the clock from the first second he took over. The body of work shows no sign of plan, vision, or improvement in decision-making.

 

[Sorinth]

So you think that the Habs should of signed Subban to a 13yr contract coming off Entry Level Contract?

Hmmmm....ok then

You realize that the deals Parise/Suter signed were as UFA's...not as RFA's right?

You claimed it wasn't possible according to the CBA, Parise/Suter are proof that it was possible. Pacioretty and Price's contracts were also signed under the old CBA so we could have given crazy front loaded deals to them if we wanted to as well. But if you want examples of mega deals coming off their ELC how about Niklas Backstrom who signed a 10 year deal after his ELC.

Coming off his ELC Subban was already a #1 defenceman. He was probably a top-15/20 defenceman league wide, and was only going to get better. So yeah I would have signed him to a super long deal, especially if it was sub 5m cap hit.