Speculation: Friedman speculates the possibility of Crawford being traded

[Rick C137]

It really is amazing how many chances we’ve had to select the consensus No. 1 goalie in the draft and passed.

2011, took Clendening No. 36 over Gibson at 39

2012, took Teravainen at No. 18 over Vasilevskiy at 19

2016, took Krys at 45 over Hart at 48

And we needed a good goalie prospect the entire time. I’d love to know why they’ve neglected the position.

Look at how many high draft pick goalies have completely busted. It’s way too risky to draft a goalie in the first round and I wouldn’t even take one in the second unless it was someone who fell that I was sold on.

You don’t need an elite goalie to win a cup, just a good one. You need elite players though. The only way to get elite players is through the draft. You can almost always find a high end starter on the market like what the Leafs did with Freddy.

It just doesn’t make sense to use high picks on goalies anymore, imo.

 

[Pez68]

What is the hit rate for the top goalies in the NHL? Are they mostly first or second rounders? Heck, I'll even take 3rd rounders. Or are they more European FAs or lower round picks? Are the days of finding Belfour or Hasek out of nowhere over due to expanded scouting?

Goalie Draft Picks (2018-2014) - NHL - DraftSite.com

 

[Hattrick Kane]

It really does seem like between Quick and Crawford, that Crow is the better option. Less term, less injury concern, albeit not much.

I have to believe he ends up on the Flames or Flyers at this point. The Blues and Hurricanes also have goalie issues, but I doubt there’s a fit there. Hopefully Bowman can get a bidding war going for Crow.

 

[piteus]

Goalie Draft Picks (2018-2014) - NHL - DraftSite.com

I literally know none of these names except Peeters and Nalimov. I do like saying "Wouters." Is he any good?

I do remember scouts saying that it's tough to find good goalies. I do remember someone saying that picking the consensus top 1 or 2 goalies later in the draft is not a bad risk.

 

[ClydeLee]

And thinking of high drafted goalies.. Crawford is the highest drafted goalie to win the cup in a long time. The last 1st round goalie winners were Gigeure and Ward

 

[Pez68]

I literally know none of these names except Peeters and Nalimov. I do like saying "Wouters." Is he any good?

I do remember scouts saying that it's tough to find good goalies. I do remember someone saying that picking the consensus top 1 or 2 goalies later in the draft is not a bad risk.

Go back to 2009-2013. Same story... I really have no idea where most goalies come from, because it certainly doesn't seem like the draft.

 

[piteus]

It really does seem like between Quick and Crawford, that Crow is the better option. Less term, less injury concern, albeit not much.

I have to believe he ends up on the Flames or Flyers at this point. The Blues and Hurricanes also have goalie issues, but I doubt there’s a fit there. Hopefully Bowman can get a bidding war going for Crow.

Tough to get into a bidding war with a NMC. That said, I could see Crow waiving his NMC for Calgary or Philly.

 

[ChiHawks10]

I literally know none of these names except Peeters and Nalimov. I do like saying "Wouters." Is he any good?

I do remember scouts saying that it's tough to find good goalies. I do remember someone saying that picking the consensus top 1 or 2 goalies later in the draft is not a bad risk.

This is why goalies don't get drafted in early rounds.

Go look at the post I had for @ColdSteel2

There are 15 star goalies in an article that were drafted in the late 2nd or 3rd round+. It just makes no sense whatsoever to take them early. You don't know what you have for 4-6 years... A great young prospect goalie could bust out(and a lot do) and a mediocre prospect goalie could develop into a stud(and many do).

 

[Hattrick Kane]

And thinking of high drafted goalies.. Crawford is the highest drafted goalie to win the cup in a long time. The last 1st round goalie winners were Gigeure and Ward

Fleury?

 

[ColdSteel2]

Just for fun, I’ll try it, haven’t looked yet.

Benn-Johnson-Stone
Panarin-Gourde-Hoffman
Palat-Bonino-Kase
Brown-Haula-Gallager
Kunitz, Martinsen

Giordano-Byfuglien
Krug-Spurgeon
Kempny-Nutivaara
Manning

There were a lot of names, I just picked out these ones. Just for fun.

 

[AmericanDream]

John Gibson was the most talked about goaltending prospect since Price...pound for pound he was the best rated goalie prospect since Price. He had the best track record for a goalie his age and the best track record of any USA goalie prior...Gibson didn't even go in the first round because of the same fear that goalies take 4-5 years to develop, and no matter how much love a goalie gets, the bust factor is still just so high for a first round pick.

Spencer Knight is the next best thing since John Gibson. I have no idea where he goes in the draft but it would not shock me if he goes in the second round. Teams are realizing for every John Gibson there are 10 Jack Campbell's....

Zach Fucale was talked about as a lock for a #1 netminder..

Zachary Fucale hockey statistics and profile at hockeydb.com

drafted in 2013, 23 years old, 2nd round pick and STILL in the ECHL....this is why it is so ill advised to pick a goalie high UNLESS he is a generational talent at his position like Price and Gibson where.

 

[AmericanDream]

just on NHL Now - Red Wings are asking for a 1st round pick for Howard as the starting point...Dan Rossen and Hradek discussing it now.

Flyers are the logical choice they said, which some of us are saying....they didn't mention Crow, but if Howard gets a 1st plus decent prospect, Crow is going to get MORE than that folks...

 

[ColdSteel2]

Look at how many high draft pick goalies have completely busted. It’s way too risky to draft a goalie in the first round and I wouldn’t even take one in the second unless it was someone who fell that I was sold on.

You don’t need an elite goalie to win a cup, just a good one. You need elite players though. The only way to get elite players is through the draft. You can almost always find a high end starter on the market like what the Leafs did with Freddy.

It just doesn’t make sense to use high picks on goalies anymore, imo.

This is why goalies don't get drafted in early rounds.

Go look at the post I had for @ColdSteel2

There are 15 star goalies in an article that were drafted in the late 2nd or 3rd round+. It just makes no sense whatsoever to take them early. You don't know what you have for 4-6 years... A great young prospect goalie could bust out(and a lot do) and a mediocre prospect goalie could develop into a stud(and many do).

I respect what you guys are saying and from a statistical standpoint, you are right, you’re less likely to hit on a goalie than a skater. I can’t deny that. It’s a gamble. Gibson was a 2nd rounder that goes top 5 in a redraft, so it’s a gamble both ways. What is not a gamble at all is when the prodigy goalie prospect comes along, MAF, Price and Vasilevskiy. You have to jump on these guys when they come along, especially if you want to take the conservative approach.

 

[Kevin Musto]

I'm just gonna say Gravel is the best goalie in our system. I think his potential exceeds Delia and Nalimov. Of course he's going to take longer whereas those two could be on the roster next season.

 

[LDF]

I'm just gonna say Gravel is the best goalie in our system. I think his potential exceeds Delia and Nalimov. Of course he's going to take longer whereas those two could be on the roster next season.

seriously i know he can play next yr, but what is the word on his ability to be the #1 goalie on a nhl team.

 

[clydesdale line]

I remember Fucale was can't miss. I believe Bob McKenzie said he was one of, if not the greatest goalie prospect he'd seen in over 25 years or something to that extent.

 

[LordKOTL]

seriously i know he can play next yr, but what is the word on his ability to be the #1 goalie on a nhl team.

Depends on the quality of the team D about 3-5 years down the road. By then the team should know what it has in the D-prospects. The 2010 'hawks team D could carry the likes of Neimi/Huet. The 2016-2019 'hawks team D needs a 4x6 cinderblock wall to carry their carcasses. Both are NHL teams and both have vastly different goaltending needs.

 

[Crow]

It really is amazing how many chances we’ve had to select the consensus No. 1 goalie in the draft and passed.

2011, took Clendening No. 36 over Gibson at 39

2012, took Teravainen at No. 18 over Vasilevskiy at 19

2016, took Krys at 45 over Hart at 48

And we needed a good goalie prospect the entire time. I’d love to know why they’ve neglected the position.

We didn’t neglect it regarding the first two. We had a young Crawford in the system.

We will see how Hart vs krys turns out.

 

[LDF]

Depends on the quality of the team D about 3-5 years down the road. By then the team should know what it has in the D-prospects. The 2010 'hawks team D could carry the likes of Neimi/Huet. The 2016-2019 'hawks team D needs a 4x6 cinderblock wall to carry their carcasses. Both are NHL teams and both have vastly different goaltending needs.

very good and i am now accepting what i was afraid to address. the ending of Kane and Toews when the Bhawks will be ready to hit the SC trail.

excellent post and many thanks.

 

[Rick C137]

We didn’t neglect it regarding the first two. We had a young Crawford in the system.

We will see how Hart vs krys turns out.

And that’s why the Vasy one was a really weird guy to bring up. It’s very possible that if we drafted Vasy instead of TT that the hawks don’t win a cup in 2015 (and ironically Tampa probably would have won it). That third line was huge for us.

Knowing what I know now I still don’t draft Vasy over TT.

 

[ColdSteel2]

And that’s why the Vasy one was a really weird guy to bring up. It’s very possible that if we drafted Vasy instead of TT that the hawks don’t win a cup in 2015 (and ironically Tampa probably would have won it). That third line was huge for us.

Knowing what I know now I still don’t draft Vasy over TT.

Vasilevskiy got them 1 of their 2 wins in the series.

 

[Rick C137]

Vaselvskiy got them 1 of their 2 wins in the series.

He would have done zero for us. Darling was actually pretty heroic in the first round. I don’t think it’s much possible to do any better than he did in that series. For us going from TT to Vasy would have been a net negative. With how close that series was taking away a key peice of a line that scored quite a few big goals could have been catastrophic.

Diddnt the Bolts have a pretty damn good third goalie at the time too?

Edit - thinking about it more If we drafted Vasy we don’t have Evan Barratt in the system. Darling would have been in the AHL and would not have fetched that third that turned into Barratt. A cup and Evan Barratt or no cup and Vasy. Your call, but I’d say that one worked out beautifully for the hawks.

 

[ColdSteel2]

He would have done zero for us. Darling was actually pretty heroic in the first round. I don’t think it’s much possible to do any better than he did in that series. For us going from TT to Vasy would have been a net negative. With how close that series was taking away a key peice of a line that scored quite a few big goals could have been catastrophic.

Diddnt the Bolts have a pretty damn good third goalie at the time too?

No, they had a washed up Nabokov.

The argument isn’t what would have happened if Bowman had to find someone else to take TT’s place on the roster in 14-15. It’s that you need strong goaltending in this league and a prodigy was available the pick right after ours while we were in a situation where we had a strong roster. It was the perfect time to address the goaltending situation.

But the past is gone, let’s try to get Spencer Knight.

 

[Rick C137]

No, they had a washed up Nabokov.

The argument isn’t what would have happened if Bowman had to find someone else to take TT’s place on the roster in 14-15. It’s that you need strong goaltending in this league and a prodigy was available the pick right after ours while we were in a situation where we had a strong roster. It was the perfect time to address the goaltending situation.

But the past is gone, let’s try to get Spencer Knight.

But tbh there’s really no argument to be had there. We had no cap to start the year and Kane’s injury is the only thing that opened the door for another acquisition. Vermette was the crown jewel of available forwards at the deadline and we already got him AND TT was more impactful than him in that playoffs IMO. You are not getting anyone to replace TTs production in that playoffs at under a mil without getting him in the draft or getting insanely lucky on a buy low candidate. Otherwise it’s just not possible. That’s why I really don’t think we have a cup that year if we had drafted Vasy as per your suggestion.

 

[ColdSteel2]

But tbh there’s really no argument to be had there. We had no cap to start the year and Kane’s injury is the only thing that opened the door for another acquisition. Vermette was the crown jewel of available forwards at the deadline and we already got him AND TT was more impactful than him in that playoffs IMO. You are not getting anyone to replace TTs production in that playoffs at under a mil without getting him in the draft. It’s just not possible. That’s why I really don’t think we have a cup that year if we had drafted Vasy as per your suggestion.

We just don’t know how things would have played out without TT. That’s why it’s meaningless to me to argue that. I mean, we can argue the what if’s all day. What if we won without TT and traded Crow when Vasy was ready? How does Crow’s trade value compare now vs. 2 or 3 seasons ago? Would we have kept Panarin if we traded Crow away? You could go on and on with that stuff and make all kinds of different cases.

Since that aspect is important to you, my question is, if you knew whoever Bowman put in TT’s place wouldn’t have changed the future outcome of the Cup, would you still take him or would you take Vasilevskiy?