Friedman 31 Thoughts (Jets)

[Jetfaninflorida]

15. A Western Conference exec joked last summer he was worried “the Jets would stop taking bad penalties and get more consistent goaltending, because then we’d all be in trouble.” Spoke to him earlier this week. “My comment stands. They have great young talent, and those players are ready to take the next step.”

Thanks for posting this quote, Aavco. The crazy thing is that we have all known for a few years now that these were two of the key issues with the Jets. Why Chevy waited until this year to address goaltending (and LHD) is anyone's guess. Also, regarding penalties, I was pleased to read that the Jets have contracted an ex NHL ref to help teach how we can avoid taking so many of them. Still drives me nuts thinking about a wasted year last year. Why didn't we take steps earlier?

Better late than never, I guess. Team looked really good yesterday. GJG!

 

[Evil Little]

Thanks for posting this quote, Aavco. The crazy thing is that we have all known for a few years now that these were two of the key issues with the Jets. Why Chevy waited until this year to address goaltending (and LHD) is anyone's guess. Also, regarding penalties, I was pleased to read that the Jets have contracted an ex NHL ref to help teach how we can avoid taking so many of them. Still drives me nuts thinking about a wasted year last year. Why didn't we take steps earlier?

Better late than never, I guess. Team looked really good yesterday. GJG!

The experts on HF Jets were generally pretty pleased with the idea of Hellebuyck as the starter last year. Maybe the Jets thought, like the braintrust around here, that that was doing something about goaltending.

In fact, I recall only one poster--other than myself--who expressed any concern about Hutchinson in a backup role.

(While you're at it, don't forget to shit on Yzerman and Nill for their 'wasted' seasons. After all, injuries are nothing but an excuse! )

 

[KingBogo]

Well, I replied to your solicitation in an earlier post. Then you took it to the next step I referred to.

What you are suggesting is not the obvious that lots of posters have pointed out. Your original question - that you kept coming back to - seemed to simply ignore all those posts. And there have been a lot of them.

I think it is an interesting suggestion. It would maximize the value of the internal competition Poolman provides while at the same time resting the regulars a bit.

We will need both Poolman and Chiarot for injury replacement through the season. I could see Poolman getting 50-60 games in that role alone and Chiarot another 30-40. That negates your plan which assumes a lot of good health.

I'm not sure that Chiarot makes it through waivers. He might, or not. Dmen are always at a bit of a premium. I think we still need the depth he provides as #8. I think his deficiencies have been overstated here. By the standards of a #7 D he is not bad. As a #8, I think he is pretty good.

By sending Poolman down we don't have to take even the small risk of waiving any D. He will get plenty of playing time with the Jets. Probably about the same amount as if it was done your way.

I don't believe I was ignoring other posts but rather encouraging people to expand on their ideas. I find it interesting that as a whole the board is advocating one way for forwards and another way for defense. Many are up in arms that Petan and to a lesser extent Connor may be sent to the A, even though that is the safe choice since the are on ELC's and can be waived risk free. Why? Because people believe keeping them makes us a stronger team even if we have to waive players that are not waiver exempt (and rightly so IMO). But for Poolman who has clearly demonstrated to be at minimum in our top 7, most people seem comfortable sending him down because it is the safe choice because he is waiver exempt and after all he will get his chance with injuries. But wouldn't this also be true for forwards?

I'm advocating if we want to ice the best team possible Poolman should be on the opening day roster. And if we lose our #8 d-man on waivers so be it. We have others who will soon pass him and there will be similar and probably cheaper d-man floating around at final cut down day anyways.

 

[MrBoJangelz71]

Thanks for posting this quote, Aavco. The crazy thing is that we have all known for a few years now that these were two of the key issues with the Jets. Why Chevy waited until this year to address goaltending (and LHD) is anyone's guess. Also, regarding penalties, I was pleased to read that the Jets have contracted an ex NHL ref to help teach how we can avoid taking so many of them. Still drives me nuts thinking about a wasted year last year. Why didn't we take steps earlier?

Better late than never, I guess. Team looked really good yesterday. GJG!

Because he wasn't going to spend $$ on top of the $$ he was paying Pavs, same with Stuart. Team was going to develop, assess what the had in Helly andwait for those contracts expire, then spend accordingly, which he did.

When you go to free agency to augment your lineup, you are going to overpay. If you are going to overpay, you better know exactly what you need. At the beginning of last season, there was a chance Helly was ready to be a solid starters. By end of season it was clear we needed a more veteran seasoned goalie, but nothing long term, because Helly just needs a couple of seasons to get there.

So we spent on exactly what we required.

 

[bumblebeeman]

I don't believe I was ignoring other posts but rather encouraging people to expand on their ideas. I find it interesting that as a whole the board is advocating one way for forwards and another way for defense. Many are up in arms that Petan and to a lesser extent Connor may be sent to the A, even though that is the safe choice since the are on ELC's and can be waived risk free. Why? Because people believe keeping them makes us a stronger team even if we have to waive players that are not waiver exempt (and rightly so IMO). But for Poolman who has clearly demonstrated to be at minimum in our top 7, most people seem comfortable sending him down because it is the safe choice because he is waiver exempt and after all he will get his chance with injuries. But wouldn't this also be true for forwards?

I'm advocating if we want to ice the best team possible Poolman should be on the opening day roster. And if we lose our #8 d-man on waivers so be it. We have others who will soon pass him and there will be similar and probably cheaper d-man floating around at final cut down day anyways.

I agree with your premise, but who do you sit to play Poolman? It would have to be one of Myers, Enstrom or Kulikov and I really doubt the team sits a 4+million dollar defenseman for a rookie, despite him looking really good in the preseason. if you are advocating him being the press box guy, I guess that would be fine, but I really don't see the harm in letting him at least play some games at the AHL level before coming up when injuries happen. That's how I feel about it.

 

[KingBogo]

I agree with your premise, but who do you sit to play Poolman? It would have to be one of Myers, Enstrom or Kulikov and I really doubt the team sits a 4+million dollar defenseman for a rookie, despite him looking really good in the preseason. if you are advocating him being the press box guy, I guess that would be fine, but I really don't see the harm in letting him at least play some games at the AHL level before coming up when injuries happen. That's how I feel about it.

Look back a few posts. I advocated rotating Poolman in for Myers, Kulikov and maybe even Toby. With the idea that all 3 have been plagued by injuries and that giving them some nights off might keep them fresh and lessen the chances of future injuries. You keep internal competition up and bodies fresh. Inevitably there will be some injuries and then you can just plug and play a guy like Poolman.

 

[surixon]

Look back a few posts. I advocated rotating Poolman in for Myers, Kulikov and maybe even Toby. With the idea that all 3 have been plagued by injuries and that giving them some nights off might keep them fresh and lessen the chances of future injuries. You keep internal competition up and bodies fresh. Inevitably there will be some injuries and then you can just plug and play a guy like Poolman.

Your idea is an interesting one but this is Maurice we are talking about. I'd peg the chances that he's actually rotate out good established vets for a rookie to be slim. Poolman I feel would likely be Poatma'd in this scenario.

If it's press box or big minutes on the Moose i vote Moose. That goes for our talented forward prospects as well. I just think there is much less competition upfront in terms of quality.

 

[lanky]

Big minutes with the Moose makes sense. He's never played a season in a men's league and he's never played 82 games in a season. Give him that challenge and we'll see how he handles it.

 

[TheRocketFlash]

As I said in numerous threads, I believe Tucker makes the team out of camp and is rotated in and out of the lineup. We've already seen Chariot's limitations and I think we've all liked the small, preseason, sample size thus far.

IMO - contract status and salary isn't as important as winning anymore. Poolman will play even without injuries

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I don't believe I was ignoring other posts but rather encouraging people to expand on their ideas. I find it interesting that as a whole the board is advocating one way for forwards and another way for defense. Many are up in arms that Petan and to a lesser extent Connor may be sent to the A, even though that is the safe choice since the are on ELC's and can be waived risk free. Why? Because people believe keeping them makes us a stronger team even if we have to waive players that are not waiver exempt (and rightly so IMO). But for Poolman who has clearly demonstrated to be at minimum in our top 7, most people seem comfortable sending him down because it is the safe choice because he is waiver exempt and after all he will get his chance with injuries. But wouldn't this also be true for forwards?

I'm advocating if we want to ice the best team possible Poolman should be on the opening day roster. And if we lose our #8 d-man on waivers so be it. We have others who will soon pass him and there will be similar and probably cheaper d-man floating around at final cut down day anyways.

The 2 situations are not comparable. You say it yourself - Poolman would be #7. People are advocating Petan play regularly. Many have posted that they prefer him sent down rather than to the PB if he can't play regularly.

 

[Zhamnov5GoalGame]

Who does he replace in the top 6? Don't get me wrong I like what he's done this camp but I think there is a bit of shiny new toy/eye test bias good on here. The last couple of games as the vets have started to ratchet up their play he's looked more ordinary. On a team that has killed it on CF% the last few games he's been solid 52% which would make him a negative relative CF% player in comparison to the rest of the team. It's a small sample size but to me it substantiates my opinion that he hasn't been as effective as many on here think. For comparison sake Kulikov has crushed it on CF% the last few games and is performing better than what most people think. He's been more effective than Poolman despite maybe not looking as flashy.

The only starting dmen that Poolman has outperformed this camp is Myers, but he will be given some leeway to come back from missing 3/4 of the year last year.

Well I question the validity of those stats in context of only a couple of games.
Anyone who has watched can easily see that Poolman has played much better then Kulikov. Poolman essentially wins every battle he is in and separates his opponents easily from the puck. He seems good at everything (battles, gap control, handling the puck, moving it, getting the puck to the net). One of the only mistakes I saw him make was missing an outlet pass that caused an icing. Meanwhile Kulikov has fumbled the puck several times in our end, completely lost his guy in the zone. Over these few games I don't think CF% is very accurate if it's telling us that Kuli is playing better than Poolman. Hopefully Kulikov will get better as the real games kick in (he's also really good at getting the puck through traffic to the net... to be fair). The only reason to keep Poolman up to start the season (if he's not in the starting 6) would be to pay him NHL money. That may help us in resigning his next RFA contract?

 

[Aavco Cup]

Who does he replace in the top 6? Don't get me wrong I like what he's done this camp but I think there is a bit of shiny new toy/eye test bias good on here. The last couple of games as the vets have started to ratchet up their play he's looked more ordinary. On a team that has killed it on CF% the last few games he's been solid 52% which would make him a negative relative CF% player in comparison to the rest of the team. It's a small sample size but to me it substantiates my opinion that he hasn't been as effective as many on here think. For comparison sake Kulikov has crushed it on CF% the last few games and is performing better than what most people think. He's been more effective than Poolman despite maybe not looking as flashy.

The only starting dmen that Poolman has outperformed this camp is Myers, but he will be given some leeway to come back from missing 3/4 of the year last year.

I think they've both been better that Stuart though


Poolman

vs Wild1 CF 15 CA 4 +11 (78.9%) Team CF 37 CA 25 +10 (59.7%)
vs Wild2 CF14 CA 6 +8 (70.0%) Team CF 37 CA 29 +8 (56.1%)
vs Oilers 2 CF 6 CA 11 -5 (35.3%) Team CF 23 CA 45 -22 (33.8%)
vs Flames1 CF 12 CA 10 +2 (54.6%) Team CF 39 CA 29 +10 (57.3%)
vs Sens CF 9 CA 8 +1 (52.9%) Team CF 37 CA 19 +18 (66.1%)

Overall CF 45 CA 39 +6 (53.5%) Team CF 173 CA 146 +27 (54.2%)

Kulikov

vs Oilers1 CF 17 CA 11 +6 (60.7%) Team CF 45 CA 32 +13 (58.4%)
vs Oilers2 CF13 CA 17 -4 (43.3%) Team CF 23 CA 45 -22 (33.8%)
vs Flames1 CF 15 CA 8 +7 (65.2%) Team CF 39 CA 29 +10 (57.3%)
vs Sens CF 18 CA 6 +12 (75.0%) Team CF 37 CA 19 +18 (66.1%)

Overall CF 63 CA 42 (60.0%) Team CF 144 CA 125 (53.5%)

 

[kcin94]

I don't believe I was ignoring other posts but rather encouraging people to expand on their ideas. I find it interesting that as a whole the board is advocating one way for forwards and another way for defense. Many are up in arms that Petan and to a lesser extent Connor may be sent to the A, even though that is the safe choice since the are on ELC's and can be waived risk free. Why? Because people believe keeping them makes us a stronger team even if we have to waive players that are not waiver exempt (and rightly so IMO). But for Poolman who has clearly demonstrated to be at minimum in our top 7, most people seem comfortable sending him down because it is the safe choice because he is waiver exempt and after all he will get his chance with injuries. But wouldn't this also be true for forwards?

I disagree between the parallel for forwards and D for two reasons

1) If Petan / Connor were not in the line up every night, they should be on the Moose, just like I think for Poolman. If Poolman is playing a top 6 role every night, then he should stay. Otherwise he should go down.

2) Petan / Connor have played pro for 2 and 1 year respectively. Poolman has a few pre-season games. Yes Poolman is older, but he has never been in a meaningful pro game. Let him get big minutes at a pro level. Petan and Connor both saw plenty of that last year. The only D who has started with the Jets without time in the A is Trouba, and Poolman is no Trouba.

 

[nags]

As I said in numerous threads, I believe Tucker makes the team out of camp and is rotated in and out of the lineup. We've already seen Chariot's limitations and I think we've all liked the small, preseason, sample size thus far.

IMO - contract status and salary isn't as important as winning anymore. Poolman will play even without injuries

I agree. People are way over thinking this. He has a nice calm style that suggests a quick head and I see nothing in his play that suggests he will have any problem adapting. His coach Brad Berry had a nice long NHL career. He has been taught the pro game so I don't understand the idea that he needs more coaching/seasoning. Sorry, not this guy.

Unfortunately Chariot has not moved the needle since coming into the league. I have seen nothing from Chariot that makes me worried about losing him to waivers.

 

[bumblebeeman]

I agree. People are way over thinking this. He has a nice calm style that suggests a quick head and I see nothing in his play that suggests he will have any problem adapting. His coach Brad Berry had a nice long NHL career. He has been taught the pro game so I don't understand the idea that he needs more coaching/seasoning. Sorry, not this guy.

Unfortunately Chariot has not moved the needle since coming into the league. I have seen nothing from Chariot that makes me worried about losing him to waivers.

I think he'll play more games with the Jets than the Moose this year, but I don't see why he wouldn't at least go to the Moose to start the year rather then sit in the press box. Seems like it would be better for him, and for the Jets who would save a roster spot until there is a D injury then call him up.

 

[Blue Shakehead]

I really like Friedman, but most of his Jets stuff have been anonymous filler quotes telling us shit we already know.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I agree. People are way over thinking this. He has a nice calm style that suggests a quick head and I see nothing in his play that suggests he will have any problem adapting. His coach Brad Berry had a nice long NHL career. He has been taught the pro game so I don't understand the idea that he needs more coaching/seasoning. Sorry, not this guy.

Unfortunately Chariot has not moved the needle since coming into the league. I have seen nothing from Chariot that makes me worried about losing him to waivers.

It isn't overthinking this. It couldn't be simpler. Nothing about him needing more coaching/seasoning or anything else. If he plays when the team is healthy, who comes out?

 

[Whileee]

Thanks for posting this quote, Aavco. The crazy thing is that we have all known for a few years now that these were two of the key issues with the Jets. Why Chevy waited until this year to address goaltending (and LHD) is anyone's guess. Also, regarding penalties, I was pleased to read that the Jets have contracted an ex NHL ref to help teach how we can avoid taking so many of them. Still drives me nuts thinking about a wasted year last year. Why didn't we take steps earlier?

Better late than never, I guess. Team looked really good yesterday. GJG!

Look at the full quote. Maybe they were waiting for their young players to be ready to take the next step before they made a move in free agency to acquire goaltending and LHD.

 

[nags]

It isn't overthinking this. It couldn't be simpler. Nothing about him needing more coaching/seasoning or anything else. If he plays when the team is healthy, who comes out?

I think he will platoon in and out as part of a three way rotation between Myers, Enstrom and Poolman to start until someone inevitably gets hurt. Under those conditions he plays 2 out of 3 games.

What is so wrong with that?

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I think he will platoon in and out as part of a three way rotation between Myers, Enstrom and Poolman to start until someone inevitably gets hurt. Under those conditions he plays 2 out of 3 games.

What is so wrong with that?

What does it accomplish?

I can see it if one or more of Toby, Myers or Kulikov are underperforming a bit but otherwise I just don't see any benefit to the instability. Let the regulars play, get used to their partners and get a rhythm.

I don't see any need to do anything to squeeze Poolman into the lineup. How long do you think it will be before we have an injury in the top 6? I give it 5 games or less.

 

[nags]

What does it accomplish?

I can see it if one or more of Toby, Myers or Kulikov are underperforming a bit but otherwise I just don't see any benefit to the instability. Let the regulars play, get used to their partners and get a rhythm.

I don't see any need to do anything to squeeze Poolman into the lineup. How long do you think it will be before we have an injury in the top 6? I give it 5 games or less.

ok lets start with:

- He is practicing with the big club with the guys that will be his long term teammates/partners. D is a partnership in every sense of the word. Knowing your partner's tendencies (and voice) is huge at this level.
- Being able to practice with Mason is also a fairly big deal when it comes to breakouts.
- He is getting instruction first hand versus having it coming through another coach's filter.
- It allows Myers and Enstrom to ease into the season, coming off significant injuries. Same goes for Poolman.
- It may even extend Enstom's and Myers' careers.
- It gives Poolman an opportunity to review game film and then watch from up top for 1 out of 3 games if he needs to make some adjustments which will likely be pretty minor.
- He is coming in from a Division 1 program known for developing NHL ready defenseman.
- He is 24 years old and his strength should not be an issue. UND has a fantastic weight training facility and program. That is one of the main advantages of Div 1 hockey vs CHL. You can actually develop your strength during the season vs having to wait for the off-season.
- Chairot will in all likelihood clear waivers with his $1.4M salary. I think Chevy did that on purpose.
- Chairot has not developed in the last year and a bit. His offensive zone work is terrible. I have yet to see him shoot between the dots. I don't even know if he can drag the puck to the middle without pressure. In addition, he is a bit of a tire fire in his own zone. Not as bad as some on here suggest but his work in his own zone is below par. Poolman already has more to offer at both ends of the ice.

I think he is in the starting lineup. I said the same thing about Morissey last year. Morrissey made it for different reasons but he was ready for the NHL and we know how that worked out.

Poolman is ready.

 

[Arthur Fonzarelli]

Poolman may be NHL ready at RD, he certainly can't crack our top 6. Should an RD injury occur he'll certainly the first option, but any injury at LD brings Chiarot it. With Maurice already on record as saying he is going 14F & 7D, the only way Poolman cracks the lineup is to waive Chiarot. Even if Chiarot clears, Poolman isn't an acceptable option at LD. In the small sample (1 game) where Poolman played his offside, his inexperience was glaring wheras Chiarot has shown some competence at playing both sides. Poolman has had a great camp, but playing behind Trouba, Byfuglien & Myers most certainly has him bound for the Moose where he'll play big minutes as their #1.

 

[surixon]

As an inexperienced player at the pro level it's more important for Poolman to get games in. One thing college doesn't prepare you for is the grind of a full pro season. Playing 82 plus games is far different than the 40 ish you play in college. Him practcong and the playing every 3 or so games isnt going to help him in that reguard. Moe also doesn't generally rotate his players in and out, he often runs with a configuration for games on end.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

ok lets start with:

- He is practicing with the big club with the guys that will be his long term teammates/partners. D is a partnership in every sense of the word. Knowing your partner's tendencies (and voice) is huge at this level.
- Being able to practice with Mason is also a fairly big deal when it comes to breakouts.
- He is getting instruction first hand versus having it coming through another coach's filter.
- It allows Myers and Enstrom to ease into the season, coming off significant injuries. Same goes for Poolman.
- It may even extend Enstom's and Myers' careers.
- It gives Poolman an opportunity to review game film and then watch from up top for 1 out of 3 games if he needs to make some adjustments which will likely be pretty minor.
- He is coming in from a Division 1 program known for developing NHL ready defenseman.
- He is 24 years old and his strength should not be an issue. UND has a fantastic weight training facility and program. That is one of the main advantages of Div 1 hockey vs CHL. You can actually develop your strength during the season vs having to wait for the off-season.
- Chairot will in all likelihood clear waivers with his $1.4M salary. I think Chevy did that on purpose.
- Chairot has not developed in the last year and a bit. His offensive zone work is terrible. I have yet to see him shoot between the dots. I don't even know if he can drag the puck to the middle without pressure. In addition, he is a bit of a tire fire in his own zone. Not as bad as some on here suggest but his work in his own zone is below par. Poolman already has more to offer at both ends of the ice.

I think he is in the starting lineup. I said the same thing about Morissey last year. Morrissey made it for different reasons but he was ready for the NHL and we know how that worked out.

Poolman is ready.

OK, well stated.

No disputing that Poolman is ready. I don't think he is better than any of our top 6. It isn't about him being ready. It also isn't about being better than Chiarot. When there is an injury Poolman will come up and play. Chiarot will continue to occupy the PB until there is a 2nd injury.

The bolded is my argument against your argument.

There might be some value to resting Enstrom and Myers 1 game in 3. That would be worth thinking about. The same might apply to Poolman. The NCAA season is a lot shorter and less physically demanding that the pro season.

I'm not too worried about Chiarot clearing. Good players clear waivers at this time of year. Better players than Chiarot will clear. It will be different even a couple of weeks down the road. I really doubt Chevy overpaid Chiarot just to discourage waiver claims.

Someone suggested that Chiarot Poolman may be kept around for a couple of games. I can see that. Maybe go with 13 F's for a few days. No need to waive anyone. By then there might have already been an injury to a D man.

Otherwise though, I think Poolman is better served playing real games against pros in the A than sitting in the PB and practicing with the Jets.

 

[KingBogo]

ok lets start with:

- He is practicing with the big club with the guys that will be his long term teammates/partners. D is a partnership in every sense of the word. Knowing your partner's tendencies (and voice) is huge at this level.
- Being able to practice with Mason is also a fairly big deal when it comes to breakouts.
- He is getting instruction first hand versus having it coming through another coach's filter.
- It allows Myers and Enstrom to ease into the season, coming off significant injuries. Same goes for Poolman.
- It may even extend Enstom's and Myers' careers.
- It gives Poolman an opportunity to review game film and then watch from up top for 1 out of 3 games if he needs to make some adjustments which will likely be pretty minor.
- He is coming in from a Division 1 program known for developing NHL ready defenseman.
- He is 24 years old and his strength should not be an issue. UND has a fantastic weight training facility and program. That is one of the main advantages of Div 1 hockey vs CHL. You can actually develop your strength during the season vs having to wait for the off-season.
- Chairot will in all likelihood clear waivers with his $1.4M salary. I think Chevy did that on purpose.
- Chairot has not developed in the last year and a bit. His offensive zone work is terrible. I have yet to see him shoot between the dots. I don't even know if he can drag the puck to the middle without pressure. In addition, he is a bit of a tire fire in his own zone. Not as bad as some on here suggest but his work in his own zone is below par. Poolman already has more to offer at both ends of the ice.

I think he is in the starting lineup. I said the same thing about Morissey last year. Morrissey made it for different reasons but he was ready for the NHL and we know how that worked out.

Poolman is ready.

Agreed and good post. I'll add that keeping Poolman with the NHL team will go a long way in future decisions he makes. He signed with the Jets mere months before he could have signed with any team. No doubt those contract talks included opportunity discussions if he proved ready. Also let's not lose sight of the huge difference it is financially for Tucker. He has delayed turning pro to finish off his university career. Making $925,000 with $850,000 in potential bonuses is night and day different that pulling in $70,000 riding a bus. IMO if the organization believes he is part of the future they will prove it to him coming out of camp.