Tennis: French Open 2021

[kihei]

Would it not be hilarious if Tsitsipas broke back here

 

[NJDevs26]

It's weird that Tsitsipas will lose in 5 but make me less confident than I was going in that he could take on the big 3

I mean did this happen because it was a choke or because Tstispas got fatigued playing against an all-time great after a five-setter the other day? Either way this is getting kind of annoying though, sort of like the Tiger era in golf, with none of these others EVER breaking through.

 

[StreetHawk]

I mean did this happen because it was a choke or because Tstispas got fatigued playing against an all-time great after a five-setter the other day? This is getting kind of annoying though, even Brady occasionally lets someone else win a SB.

Would suck to be a men's tennis player for the past decade with that trio ruling the courts.

 

[kanuck87]

Tsitsipas didn't play that bad in that last set, but this is what happens when you let it get to a 5th set and let Djokovic put it all out there in that last set.

 

[kihei]

Wouldn't a calendar Slam, the first on the men's side since Laver's second one (1969) be a great way to take over the GS championships lead over Roger and Rafa? Not an impossibility now.

 

[Novak Djokovic]

Amazing, what a career. First to win every GS twice. Most weeks at #1. Most ATP Masters 1000.

 

[Filppula]

Absolutely ridiculous this guy, absolutely mind blowing how mentally tough he is. He just did not miss in sets 3-5, and his return of serve is what I thought won it for him, just dialled in on return.

This is something special.

 

[kanuck87]

I mean did this happen because it was a choke or because Tstispas got fatigued playing against an all-time great after a five-setter the other day? Either way this is getting kind of annoying though, sort of like the Tiger era in golf, with none of these others EVER breaking through.

No excuses for Tsitsipas being tired. Novak was the one playing until midnight and in a grueling match against Nadal in the semi-finals the other day. Tsitsipas didn't look noticeably tired in sets 3-5. He simply wilted under the pressure against one of the greatest of all-time.

 

[MVP of West Hollywd]

I mean did this happen because it was a choke or because Tstispas got fatigued playing against an all-time great after a five-setter the other day? Either way this is getting kind of annoying though, sort of like the Tiger era in golf, with none of these others EVER breaking through.

He was tired but I also think Tsitsipas mentally wasn't ready to beat Djokovic today and the match was basically over when Djokovic went up a break in the 4th set. His reaction after the match was that of someone who just choked.

 

[Fighter]

The other day I talked about resilience. Well, even today you could see what I meant: he was down two sets, against a very talented player who is 12 years younger than him and that was literally painting the lines for two sets. But this is the point with Nole, how many times he found himself in a difficult situation, facing repeatedly the likes of Nadal and Federer (+ Murray). And here we went, with him just raising his level right when the opponent started to decline (I repeat, Stefanos, 12 years younger, started to look tired just as Nole started to "feel it", unbelievable).
That was enough: yes, there was a battle, yes there were some spectacular rallies (nothing compared to Nadal's match though...), but Tsitsipas lost focus just as he realized that he had a titan in front of him.
I give major props to Tsitsi, he's beautiful to watch IMO and I can bet that he will win multiple slams in the future, just not today.
As for Nole, what more can we say? Double career grand slam, #19, leads H2H with the other two Legends, most weeks at number 1, he can excel in every surface like no other player ever. He can stop here, for me he is already the GOAT, but make no mistake, next year Rafa will win RG, he's not done yet.

 

[CanadianFlyer88]

The big 3 just have a different level of mental toughness than anyone in the generations that have followed. It has been frustrating waiting for someone to rise up.

Djokovic doesn't need to pass Fed to claim GOAT status (he's already there), but he'll get well into the 20s for total majors, barring injury, because no one from the 90s or 00s is proving ready to challenge him consistently.

There aren't many years left to watch the big 3 dominate (Fed is already fading into the sunset), so enjoy it while it lasts.

 

[napoleon in rags]

Wouldn't a calendar Slam, the first on the men's side since Laver's second one (1969) be a great way to take over the GS championships lead over Roger and Rafa? Not an impossibility now.

That would be sweet indeed.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Yeah I really don't see how Nole isn't the GOAT now. The dude is the most well rounded player of all time and done it against 2 other top ~4 all time players. Very impressed with how good and how long Nole has been elite while simultaneously being rooted against by most everyone.

 

[kihei]

I think Nole will be the GOAT, but I'm not giving him that title until he wins one more GS because that has always been the primary variable when it comes to GOAT status. A tie, I concede, goes to Nole over Rafa and Roger because his overall credentials would be superior to theirs. Of course, two more GSs, which he could accomplish this year, would bring any hint of an ongoing argument to a dead stop.

 

[The Abusement Park]

I think Nole will be the GOAT, but I'm not giving him that title until he wins one more GS because that has always been the primary variable when it comes to GOAT status. A tie, I concede, goes to Nole over Rafa and Roger because his overall credentials would be superior to theirs. Of course, two more GSs, which he could accomplish this year, would bring any hint of an ongoing argument to a dead stop.

I don't see how he isn't already.
Longest time at #1? Novak.

Only player ever to win a career slam 2x? Novak.

Only player ever to achieve the career Golden Masters? Novak.

All while doing this against the hardest competition of all time in Federer and Nadal(still the clay GOAT though). I don't think one less GS, that he will inevitably win keeps him from surpassing them.

 

[Novak Djokovic]

I think Nole will be the GOAT, but I'm not giving him that title until he wins one more GS because that has always been the primary variable when it comes to GOAT status. A tie, I concede, goes to Nole over Rafa and Roger because his overall credentials would be superior to theirs. Of course, two more GSs, which he could accomplish this year, would bring any hint of an ongoing argument to a dead stop.

While I think it's the most important criteria (by far), it shouldn't be the only criteria.

 

[Troubadour]

I don't see how he isn't already.
Longest time at #1? Novak.

Only player ever to win a career slam 2x? Novak.

Only player ever to achieve the career Golden Masters? Novak.

All while doing this against the hardest competition of all time in Federer and Nadal(still the clay GOAT though). I don't think one less GS, that he will inevitably win keeps him from surpassing them.

He also held all four majors at once at one point.

As for this match, my bet was on Stefanos because I knew he was capable of winning. Alas, wasn't meant to be. Hats off to Novak for what he's achieved and how he kept his composure during the tough moments.

Rafa must feel aboriginal-cursed for how unlucky he was in his endeavor to get the second AO title through the years. 2012, 2014, 2017. He definitely should have made more of those finals, especially the ones against Novak and Roger, because those titles would have benefited him immensely in the GOAT race. He also would have been the first of the three to snatch a couple of each major. He's just sandwiched between two savants.

 

[kihei]

I don't see how he isn't already.
Longest time at #1? Novak.

Only player ever to win a career slam 2x? Novak.

Only player ever to achieve the career Golden Masters? Novak.

All while doing this against the hardest competition of all time in Federer and Nadal(still the clay GOAT though). I don't think one less GS, that he will inevitably win keeps him from surpassing them.

Nole has a great argument, but, in my way of evalutating this, he lacks the most significant achievemnet, the number of GSs won. That has been the central measuring device of the debate to this point in the modern era, and at least for some people like me it remains the single most important criterion. With Wimbledon coming up soon, that very well might be the balance-tipper for me. I mean with Roger in a kind of on-court rehab and Thiem gazing at his own navel, who is there to challenge the five-time Champion, the guy who has won it the last two years it has been played? Nobody that I can see.

 

[Troubadour]

Nole has a great argument, but, in my way of evalutating this, he lacks the most significant achievemnet, the number of GSs won. That has been the central measuring device of the debate to this point in the modern era, and at least for some people like me it remains the single most important criterion. With Wimbledon coming up soon, that very well might be the balance-tipper for me. I mean with Roger in a kind of on-court rehab and Thiem gazing at his own navel, who is there to challenge the five-time Champion, the guy who has won it the last two years it has been played? Nobody that I can see.

A difference of one major seems cosmetic at this point, all other accomplishments considered.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Nole has a great argument, but, in my way of evalutating this, he lacks the most significant achievemnet, the number of GSs won. That has been the central measuring device of the debate to this point in the modern era, and at least for some people like me it remains the single most important criterion. With Wimbledon coming up soon, that very well might be the balance-tipper for me. I mean with Roger in a kind of on-court rehab and Thiem gazing at his own navel, who is there to challenge the five-time Champion, the guy who has won it the last two years it has been played? Nobody that I can see.

Overall GS's matters, but at this point in everyones careers Novak has had the most impressive career of the 3. I think the competition that Federer was facing for his first few was less than impressive where as Joker never had that luxury. I mean 11 of his 19 GS wins are against Federer, Nadal, or Murray where as Federer got to play Hewitt, Phillipousis, a 35 year old Agassi, etc. before Nadal and Joker came up. But when it's this close I think competition 100% plays a factor in the # of GS wins.

 

[MVP of West Hollywd]

I still think Federer at his peak has a case for the most dominant player ever but Djokovic in his 5th-10th best years or so is probably better and there is little gap between their top seasons. Federer has probably the most natural talent in history but is more mentally vulnerable than Djokovic or Nadal. He could have 22 or 23 majors but there is a few that he flat out blew. Djokovic bad losses at GS he typically didn't have it from the start of the match or the other guy played out of their mind.

 

[Troubadour]

I still think Federer at his peak has a case for the most dominant player ever but Djokovic in his 5th-10th best years or so is probably better and there is little gap between their top seasons. Federer has probably the most natural talent in history but is more mentally vulnerable than Djokovic or Nadal.

Federer at his peak was still losing to a teenage/pre-peak Nadal. The worse version of Nadal Djokovic dismantled and manhandled in 2011. And again, Djokovic held all four majors at once. With Nadal and Federer around.

Some are forever stuck in 2006.

 

[The Abusement Park]

I still think Federer at his peak has a case for the most dominant player ever but Djokovic in his 5th-10th best years or so is probably better and there is little gap between their top seasons. Federer has probably the most natural talent in history but is more mentally vulnerable than Djokovic or Nadal. He could have 22 or 23 majors but there is a few that he flat out blew. Djokovic bad losses at GS he typically didn't have it from the start of the match or the other guy played out of their mind.

I think this is pretty accurate. I don’t think the talent discrepancy is huge but Noles mentality is about as good as any athlete ever and that is the difference between two.

 

[kihei]

A difference of one major seems cosmetic at this point, all other accomplishments considered.

I can understand that way of thinking. But you are talking about one of the most exclusive clubs in sports history, the equal of say Babe Ruth's 60 home runs. Nole wants to join that club, he will be at the head of the class, the clear first among equals, but first he has to show me the 20. That's how sports records work as far as I am concerned. Don't tell me he's got 59 homers and he's greater than Ruth.

And, guys, relax, this is very likely about to become a moot point anyway.

 

[MVP of West Hollywd]

Federer at his peak was still losing to a teenage/pre-peak Nadal. The worse version of Nadal Djokovic dismantled and manhandled in 2011. And again, Djokovic held all four majors at once. With Nadal and Federer around.

Some are forever stuck in 2006.

At the French Open, on the non clay courts he was untouchable as it gets and other majors were basically over before they started. The only time I felt like Djokovic was that inevitable was 2011 up until the US open.