Speculation: Free Agent Frenzy Part VI: Someone Get Gorton A Vesey Button.

[will1066]

How'd that approach work out with Girardi and probably Staal?

They had NMC's and their play deteriorated so much that no team was willing to take them. (Although this isn't really applicable with Staal, I don't see any team trading for him).

A guy like EK isn't signing with a team w/o a NMC. Players of his caliber want to control.

Like I said, avoid the NMC if you can.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

There is absolutely no team that has won it all that didn’t have a number of players in their 30s. Good players too.

 

[will1066]

Why does WPG do this? They already have one of the best offensive cores in the league. If they're moving Trouba their going to need a replacement on D.

If I were GMJG, I'd at least throw that out there. Their core is great, no doubt. Yet they still managed 2 goals or less in each of their following four games against VGK after Game 1.

 

[nyr2k2]

I really believe the Rangers are gearing up to go hard at a couple of UFA's in 2019. Continue rebuilding and accumulating assets at this years deadline and to start the off-season next year. Zuccarello, Spooner/Namestnikov/Vesey. They will know more about Nieves, Lettieri, Gilmour, Bigras, O'Gara and other youngish borderline guys. It gives them another year to evaluate what they have currently.

Add another 1st and some young assets to the farm system and have another draft with 3-5 picks in the top-60 along with a high NYR pick. With the clearing of the cap space that is clearly happening in 2-3 years, they can add acouple of player next off-season and market those players into giving a slight discount to play on a team with another superstar along with a very deep farm system.

Say Karlsson and Panarin reach UFA. Say Karlsson is looking for $10.5m and Panarin is looking for $9m. Would they take $500k less each to come together to the NYC market? They will have the cap room.

I think they'll push for one of those two, as well.

That's why, however, I don't think they're going to continue to dismantle the team in any major way. I'm having this discussion in another thread with someone who advocated for trading Hayes, Zuccarello, Shattenkirk, Lundqvist, Spooner, Namestnikov and others by the TDL next year, basically rolling with Zibanejad, Kreider, Buchnevich and then a lineup of kids--plus Panarin and EK. IMO, the top free agents are not going to want to sign with a team built like that, and would want a team with more of an established core and structure in place (even if it's young). The top-tier guys usually sign where they think they can win. Even Shattenkirk who gave us a deal to play for his favorite team, I'm sure he thought the Rangers were going to be competitive, not a team that's likely headed for two or more years without the playoffs. Not sure if he'd have signed, or given us a deal anyway, if he knew that was the case.

Anyway, I'm just getting at the idea that if we want the top guys, we need to be somewhere close to competitive. Another huge sell-off doesn't do it, or doesn't signal to impending free agents that you think you're there. Move Zucc, move Spooner, sure. But you can't trade 5 or 6 veterans and think someone like Panarin will want to sign. You need the youth, plus the veterans, so that you can say, "Hey, we're right there, your presence (plus maybe another guy) puts us right where we need to be to make a run." How often do the big names sign up for a rebuild?

 

[Mac n Gs]

If they want to buy into 2 RD with a lot of potential, they can see if Fil Hronek or Andrew Peeke are available. I see no reason why Detroit or Columbus moves either, but there’s two young names that should both be really good defenders. Idk if they’ll be 1RD, but Hronek did very well in Grand Rapids last year.

 

[Ola]

There is absolutely no team that has won it all that didn’t have a number of players in their 30s. Good players too.

The one thing all Cup winners have in common is a bunch of bad contracts. But timing is very important.

 

[Tawnos]

We don't know what the next few drafts will bring. Honka's little brother Antonni looks like a quality RD for 2019. Drew Helleson is another highly touted RD in 2019. Boston College freshman in the fall. Greg Brown knows him very well. Just because Karlsson is available and Trouba could be available in a trade next summer doesn't make them part of the solution. They will both come with huge price tags until their mid to late 30's. A 7 year contract for Karlsson takes him to 36. A 7 year contract takes Trouba to 33 in 2020 when he is a free agent. The Rangers have been there and done that with signing D until their mid 30's with awful results.

I’d be talking about trading for Trouba now and signing him to a 7 year extension on Jan 1. That takes him to 32. Is early-30s ok with you or is that too decrepit?

Also, nothing about the Rangers history with these signings means anything about signing these individual players. You have to take some risks. Not only that, but Trouba is just entering his prime. That bears no relation to what you’re talking about.

Just good to know that the RB version of a “plan” is to solely draft players and hope they work out.

 

[haveandare]

I'll be very, very surprised if either Karlsson or Panarin make it to UFA, and I'll be shocked if both do.

 

[haohmaru]

I’d be talking about trading for Trouba now and signing him to a 7 year extension on Jan 1. That takes him to 32. Is early-30s ok with you or is that too decrepit?

Also, nothing about the Rangers history with these signings means anything about signing these individual players. You have to take some risks. Not only that, but Trouba is just entering his prime. That bears no relation to what you’re talking about.

Just good to know that the RB version of a “plan” is to solely draft players and hope they work out.

I can't think of too many 25 year old top 4 right handed defenseman that we've traded for. Ever.

RB's dream team is everyone being 25 and under and being a cap floor team with no vets on extended contracts and no NMC's/NTC's at all. Well, with no NMC's and NTC's, no vet UFA's would sign here anyway so that's moot.

I can't think of a Stanley Cup winner that had no 30+ year olds on its roster. Closest is probably the 83-84 Oilers with only two.

 

[Tawnos]

I'll be very, very surprised if either Karlsson or Panarin make it to UFA, and I'll be shocked if both do.

Which is why, if you want them, you trade for them now... if you can.

 

[Tawnos]

I can't think of too many 25 year old top 4 right handed defenseman that we've traded for. Ever.

RB's dream team is everyone being 25 and under and being a cap floor team with no vets on extended contracts and no NMC's/NTC's at all. Well, with no NMC's and NTC's, no vet UFA's would sign here anyway so that's moot.

I can't think of a Stanley Cup winner that had no 30+ year olds on its roster. Closest is probably the 83-84 Oilers with only two.

Jeff Beukeboom?

 

[haohmaru]

Jeff Beukeboom?

26 :/

 

[Beer League Sniper]

This team can't afford what it's going to take to trade for Panarin or Karlsson. We should still be in the mode of selling off expiring contracts and accumulating young assets and picks.

With that being said, if either of those two, plus Seguin makes it to UFA, you throw a blank check at them. Those guys are elite talents in their prime. There is no situation in which they don't get you closer to a cup. They're fundamentally different players than those we've chased in the past. Karlsson carries the most risk with injuries and whatnot, but he's also a generational defenseman. Seguin and Panarin are only 26, and are currently putting up elite numbers with no sign of stopping.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Karlsson over trouba all day every day.

 

[wafflepadsave]

I don't think Hayes + Zuccarello nets you Trouba.

Then we can go fish.

 

[Webster]

Then we can go fish.

Fishin all day long..

Very quiet on the trade front, I guess that's a good thing. You only need a couple of veterans, let the kids show what they can do. I'm sure they're hungry.

 

[I Eat Crow]

Karlsson will be 29 at the start of his next contract. He stinks defensively. Bad feet. $90M for 7 years can be spent in better ways.

Trouba isn’t the answer either.

In other words, do nothing.

You and I both know that the Rangers are not going to be in the position to draft players of Karlsson's, and hell, even Trouba's caliber.

Elite talent wins Cups.

Washington has Ovechkin, Backstrom, and Kuznetsov.

Pittsburgh Crosby, Malkin, Letang, Kessel.

Chicago Kane, Toews, Keith

LA Kopitar, Carter, Doughty, Quick.

Boston is maybe the lone exception with Bergeron and Tim Thomas playing out of his mind.

Most of that elite talent was between the ages of 26 and 32 when they won their Cup. The Rangers winning the Cup in 3 to 4 years with a 32 or 33 year old Karlsson isn't out of the question with some luck.

My point is that some elite talent is necessary to win a Cup. The Rangers will continue to draft between 6th and 13ish overall as long as Lundqvist is on this team stealing 10 to 15 games a year by himself. Now if Goergiev is in net for 60 games a year, this team is in contention for a top 3 pick. Our reality is that our 36 year old goalie is keeping this team from being in a position to draft a true difference maker. Andersson and Chytil are going to be great complimentary pieces but not go to guys like Erik Karlsson. Ditto with Lundkvist, Howden, Lindgren, etc. Kravtsov has a chance to be elite but a lot has to go right for that to be a reality.

I'm not in love with giving Karlsson 7 years either. But if he comes on a contract on the Rangers' terms like Shattenkirk did that is 5 or 6 years long, the front office would be foolish not to bring him in.

 

[kovazub94]

TBF, I'm all aboard the "do nothing" train right now.

Sure, there're quite a few posters here taking this position. RB is just one among the most outspoken about it and among the most "radical" if you will.

 

[Ola]

I can't think of too many 25 year old top 4 right handed defenseman that we've traded for. Ever.

RB's dream team is everyone being 25 and under and being a cap floor team with no vets on extended contracts and no NMC's/NTC's at all. Well, with no NMC's and NTC's, no vet UFA's would sign here anyway so that's moot.

I can't think of a Stanley Cup winner that had no 30+ year olds on its roster. Closest is probably the 83-84 Oilers with only two.

What is Gorton’s plan for the blueline after he traded McD? Younger have been better in many areas in this league, but your core D can’t be 21-22 y/o. Skjei is fine in a top 4 role and Shatty is on he decline already. Can fill a Dan Boyle type of role at best when we are supposed to contend.

When Gorton launched the rebuild it looked like a ton of top Ds were hitting UFA. Now everyone is off the table, almost. McD, Doughty, OEL and Carlson went over night. Karlsson in 19’ and Trouba in 20’ is left. Would be surprised if either hit the market, and in Karlsson’s case, if he didn’t sign with Tampa. Easy life for him. Contender, warm climate, anonymous role in a non-hockey community. Would have others to share the pressure with. He is cool if he takes an offer from NYR that is for sure. Not afraid of a challenge.

What is Gortons backup plan if nobody of these guys hit the market? Skjei and Shatty. Pionk and TDA? Hajak? It’s not a top blueline. Miller might arrive in 3-4 years and might become a part of a core when he is 23-24 y/o. Lundkvist. We can draft guys in 19’, the we can expect arrive/start to help around 2023-2024.

There is no leader among those guys. Think we could fill position 2-6, but who is leading the D? Who is our No 1 the coming 5-6 years??

 

[Kupo]

You and I both know that the Rangers are not going to be in the position to draft players of Karlsson's, and hell, even Trouba's caliber.

Trouba was a 9th OA pick. EK was drafted 15th OA. So...

The problem is when you don’t have a 1st round pick for like 5 consecutive years, and when you do have a 1st round pick you blow it on guys like McIlrath, it really ****’s up any possibility of finding elite talent.

Gorton isn’t Sather. He moved Brassard then shortly after that, Stepan. He moved McD. Nash. Grabner. He tried to move up last draft. Likely tried to move up this draft.

Times are different here right now. We’re all in agreement that we need potential elite talent, but you can’t always force things.

We don’t really know what Skjei, ADA and Pionk are going be next year. Or guys like Lindgren and Rykov.

Miller, Lundkvist, Ragnarsson, and Keane from last draft class.

We might be in stage #4 of Gortons 30-stage rebuild, yet some people here keep worrying about the last stage. Let the gears in motion keep spinning, and avoid the shortcuts that may not even be a need when Gortons team is fullly completed.

We still have assets up the ass. Namestnikov, Spooner, Kreider, Hayes, Zuccarello, and Zibanejad. There will be more drafts. There will be more deals.

Pass on EK and Trouba. Focus on drafting and developing our own versions of those players.

 

[bobbop]

Lundqvist is going to lose his mind playing behind this D.

Interesting point. The King says he wants to stick it out right now but a year from now he might have a very different POV. How much punishment can you expect him to take? I don't think it is impossible that a year from know he pleads uncle, asks for a trade and the Rangers find him a new home. That would definitely change the dynamic of the rebuild.

 

[Tawnos]

Sure, there're quite a few posters here taking this position. RB is just one among the most outspoken about it and among the most "radical" if you will.

The only train I’m on is the one where we are constantly looking for opportunities without devotion to ideology.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Eh, I used to think you needed to be at the top end of the draft to get elite talent but that’s really not the case.

It helps, but you can find elite talent in the mid to late first, even second round

It’s all about scouting. Which I flip flop on whether or not I trust the teams decsions there

 

[Ola]

I really believe the Rangers are gearing up to go hard at a couple of UFA's in 2019. Continue rebuilding and accumulating assets at this years deadline and to start the off-season next year. Zuccarello, Spooner/Namestnikov/Vesey. They will know more about Nieves, Lettieri, Gilmour, Bigras, O'Gara and other youngish borderline guys. It gives them another year to evaluate what they have currently.

Add another 1st and some young assets to the farm system and have another draft with 3-5 picks in the top-60 along with a high NYR pick. With the clearing of the cap space that is clearly happening in 2-3 years, they can add acouple of player next off-season and market those players into giving a slight discount to play on a team with another superstar along with a very deep farm system.

Say Karlsson and Panarin reach UFA. Say Karlsson is looking for $10.5m and Panarin is looking for $9m. Would they take $500k less each to come together to the NYC market? They will have the cap room.

I was looking at who will hit the UFA market in 19’ and 20’.

In 19’ it’s Seguin, Panarin, Karlsson and Duchene.

In 20’ it’s ONLY Pieterangelo and Josi. This is excluding anyone being a RFA this or next year that can get to UFA through arbitration, like Trouba.

In 21’ it’s only Doug Hamilton and Gabe Landeskog who won’t be very old (AO, Getzlaf and Perry are also UFA but like what, 35-36 y/o).

Very very few players reach UFA. 1 of 10 of bigger names? I could scrape together 8 names above before the start of the 21/22 season.

Most — scratch that, all — great players are locked up long term on pretty solid deals.

If we are building a team through the draft we are in for most likely a 8-9 year thing. Good teams develop good D, bad teams almost exclusively ruin young Ds. Like really, how many young Ds really exceeding expectations can you think of on cellar teams? Justin Schultz is worthless in a EDM and takes another step in Pittsburgh, got two rings now.

It’s not impossible for Gorts to build a good team. But it’s tricky, and the blueline worries me the most. And I will believe in Pittsburgh as a compareable for us and anyone else when someone else wins a cup without the two best centers in hockey AND the best 3rd line in the NHL and a subpar blueline like theirs...

 

[Tawnos]

Planning to make big plays at UFAs a year out is a bad strategy that’s failed for just about everybody who has employed it.