Speculation: Free Agent Frenzy Part VI: Someone Get Gorton A Vesey Button.

[SA16]

Josi isn't particularly good defensively though.

 

[TheTakedown]

Karlsson will be 29 at the start of his next contract. He stinks defensively. Bad feet. $90M for 7 years can be spent in better ways.

Trouba isn’t the answer either.

In other words, do nothing.

And then what? You can;'t not do anything and expect magic to happen. Other than ADA, there is nothing in the system that projects to be a #1RD

 

[YoSoyLalo]

Trade for Trouba or sign Karlsson. Which would you do and why?

Sign Karlsson. No loss in assets, VASTLY superior player.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Hayes, Pionk and a 2nd for Trouba.

Hayes fills their need at C and Pionk can take the 3rd pair minutes behind Buff and Myers on the right side.

Here is an article that does a good job of outlining the Trouba situation in the 'peg.

Jacob Trouba's arbitration deal makes Winnipeg's 2018-19...

“The centre slot is where opposing offenses went to die when Trouba was on the ice last season. Most Jets defenders look good by these heat maps, but given the matchups Trouba faced, the absence of high-quality opportunities in front of Connor Hellebuyck is particularly impressive.”

An area this team could certainly use some help with.

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

Our D is gonna stink, Hank will go through 2-3 sticks a game

 

[Kupo]

Who do you expect the Rangers to develop into a 1RD in time for a window we hope opens in 4 years?

Karlsson, I agree, is a risk at the moment.

4 years ago our D was:
McD
Klein
Boyle
Staal
Girardi
Yandle
Hunwick
Moore.

4 years prior to that we had:
Girardi
Staal
Rozsival
Sauer
Gilroy
Del Zotto
McDonagh
McCabe
Eminger

We have defensive prospects our pipeline for a change. We'll have time to draft more within 4 years. There will be other options over the next 4 years as well. Investing a plethora of assets for a guy that is injury prone and seeking a massive payday isn't the only solution to a potential problem in 4 years.

Our mindset should be drafting and developing the next Trouba, EK, Panarin, etc.

 

[Kupo]

Our D is gonna stink, Hank will go through 2-3 sticks a game

Our D stunk last year. It'll probably stink next year.

The future is what matters here. Not the current.

 

[Tawnos]

4 years ago our D was:
McD
Klein
Boyle
Staal
Girardi
Yandle
Hunwick
Moore.

4 years prior to that we had:
Girardi
Staal
Rozsival
Sauer
Gilroy
Del Zotto
McDonagh
McCabe
Eminger

We have defensive prospects our pipeline for a change. We'll have time to draft more within 4 years. There will be other options over the next 4 years as well. Investing a plethora of assets for a guy that is injury prone and seeking a massive payday isn't the only solution to a potential problem in 4 years.

Our mindset should be drafting and developing the next Trouba, EK, Panarin, etc.

Our mindset should be on acquiring players who will help us in a few years no matter how we do it.

Keep in mind, Winnipeg and Columbus are different trading partners than Ottawa. Neither of the former are looking for prospects. We wouldn’t be talking about a “plethora” in the sense of several prospects and picks.

So the question is: which is the better trade for the future of the franchise, given their current strengths and weaknesses? Hayes+Zuccarello for 24 year old 1RD+ or Hayes+Zuccarello (not in the same trade) for multiple picks and prospects, getting you at best a slim shot at a 24-year old 1RD?

 

[nyr__1994]

Trade for Trouba or sign Karlsson. Which would you do and why?

Personally trade for Trouba. Negative is that it costs assets. Positive is that he is younger and will be cheaper than Karlsson.

Sign Karlsson AINEC.

Trouba will cost a lot in a trade and he and his agent are going to be the worst when it comes to negotiating a new contract. Not to mention the kid can't stay healthy. The time to trade for Trouba was before he signed that 2 year bridge deal so you could lock him up long term.

Karlsson will require no assets and simply cost more money. He is a generational defenseman and at 28, he will still be a monster on the blue line.

If we trade for Trouba I will 100% be on the fire Gorton bandwagon.

Karlsson will be 29 at the start of his next contract. He stinks defensively. Bad feet. $90M for 7 years can be spent in better ways.

Trouba isn’t the answer either.

In other words, do nothing.

I have been on the acquire Trouba train for a while. I think the assets we would have to give up to acquire him if the Jets will take a package built around Hayes would be well worth it. In addition, the extra 4 million in cap space between Trouba for the next 7-9 years will be more desirable than Karlsson.

Trouba at 5.5 per this year and then 7.5 for the next 8 taking him to his age 32 season - vs - Karlsson at 11-12 per year taking him to his age 36 season.....

I wish all contracts listed percent of cap because 7.5-8 million today with an 80 million cap vs 2/3 years ago....8 is the new 6....

 

[Boruto]

I think our defense will be better this year. Better defensive system plus lots of minutes for Pionk and ADA insteda of Staal-Holden will help some. If Skjei-Shattenkirk stays healthy,

 

[Gardner McKay]

I have been on the acquire Trouba train for a while. I think the assets we would have to give up to acquire him if the Jets will take a package built around Hayes would be well worth it. In addition, the extra 4 million in cap space between Trouba for the next 7-9 years will be more desirable than Karlsson.

Trouba at 5.5 per this year and then 7.5 for the next 8 taking him to his age 32 season - vs - Karlsson at 11-12 per year taking him to his age 36 season.....

I wish all contracts listed percent of cap because 7.5-8 million today with an 80 million cap vs 2/3 years ago....8 is the new 6....

We should not be giving up assets for a broken defenseman, regardless of how good he is.

 

[RangerBoy]

Our D is gonna stink, Hank will go through 2-3 sticks a game

Lundqvist is going to lose his mind playing behind this D.

 

[RangerBoy]

And then what? You can;'t not do anything and expect magic to happen. Other than ADA, there is nothing in the system that projects to be a #1RD

What's the rush? The Rangers are rebuilding.

 

[Kupo]

Our mindset should be on acquiring players who will help us in a few years no matter how we do it.

Keep in mind, Winnipeg and Columbus are different trading partners than Ottawa. Neither of the former are looking for prospects. We wouldn’t be talking about a “plethora” in the sense of several prospects and picks.

So the question is: which is the better trade for the future of the franchise, given their current strengths and weaknesses? Hayes+Zuccarello for 24 year old 1RD+ or Hayes+Zuccarello (not in the same trade) for multiple picks and prospects, getting you at best a slim shot at a 24-year old 1RD?

I don't think Hayes + Zuccarello nets you Trouba.

 

[RangerBoy]

Who do you expect the Rangers to develop into a 1RD in time for a window we hope opens in 4 years?

Karlsson, I agree, is a risk at the moment.

We don't know what the next few drafts will bring. Honka's little brother Antonni looks like a quality RD for 2019. Drew Helleson is another highly touted RD in 2019. Boston College freshman in the fall. Greg Brown knows him very well. Just because Karlsson is available and Trouba could be available in a trade next summer doesn't make them part of the solution. They will both come with huge price tags until their mid to late 30's. A 7 year contract for Karlsson takes him to 36. A 7 year contract takes Trouba to 33 in 2020 when he is a free agent. The Rangers have been there and done that with signing D until their mid 30's with awful results.

 

[will1066]

Hayes + Zucc + Spooner

 

[I Eat Crow]

What if Karlsson comes here on a 4 or 5 year deal similar to Shattenkirk? Would any of you be against it? I'm not against bringing him on, but I would have a problem with a 7 or 8 year deal.

 

[will1066]

We don't know what the next few drafts will bring. Honka's little brother Antonni looks like a quality RD for 2019. Drew Helleson is another highly touted RD in 2019. Boston College freshman in the fall. Greg Brown knows him very well. Just because Karlsson is available and Trouba could be available in a trade next summer doesn't make them part of the solution. They will both come with huge price tags until their mid to late 30's. A 7 year contract for Karlsson takes him to 36. A 7 year contract takes Trouba to 33 in 2020 when he is a free agent. The Rangers have been there and done that with signing D until their mid 30's with awful results.

Elite players can demand guaranteed money. And in order to win or maintain elite services, that's the price you have to pay. Those last years on long-term contracts are garbage. Player is a shell of himself by then. You want to front load as much as possible but stay in the cap (and avoid an NMC) - win-win for both the player and organization - and then the player becomes more viable trade bait when the AAV is less on the back end of the contract.

 

[Kupo]

Hayes + Zucc + Spooner

Why does WPG do this? They already have one of the best offensive cores in the league. If they're moving Trouba their going to need a replacement on D.

 

[Kupo]

Elite players can demand guaranteed money. And in order to win or maintain elite services, that's the price you have to pay. Those last years on long-term contracts are garbage. Player is a shell of himself by then. You want to front load as much as possible but stay in the cap (and avoid an NMC) - win-win for both the player and organization - and then the player becomes more viable trade bait when the AAV is less on the back end of the contract.

How'd that approach work out with Girardi and probably Staal?

They had NMC's and their play deteriorated so much that no team was willing to take them. (Although this isn't really applicable with Staal, I don't see any team trading for him).

A guy like EK isn't signing with a team w/o a NMC. Players of his caliber want to control.

 

[NYR Viper]

I really believe the Rangers are gearing up to go hard at a couple of UFA's in 2019. Continue rebuilding and accumulating assets at this years deadline and to start the off-season next year. Zuccarello, Spooner/Namestnikov/Vesey. They will know more about Nieves, Lettieri, Gilmour, Bigras, O'Gara and other youngish borderline guys. It gives them another year to evaluate what they have currently.

Add another 1st and some young assets to the farm system and have another draft with 3-5 picks in the top-60 along with a high NYR pick. With the clearing of the cap space that is clearly happening in 2-3 years, they can add acouple of player next off-season and market those players into giving a slight discount to play on a team with another superstar along with a very deep farm system.

Say Karlsson and Panarin reach UFA. Say Karlsson is looking for $10.5m and Panarin is looking for $9m. Would they take $500k less each to come together to the NYC market? They will have the cap room.

 

[kovazub94]

Karlsson will be 29 at the start of his next contract. He stinks defensively. Bad feet. $90M for 7 years can be spent in better ways.

Trouba isn’t the answer either.

In other words, do nothing.

Well, color me surprised.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Possible but I'd be a little surprised. At least in the sense that the Rangers would bring in a major piece. I could certainly see a notable player or two heading out, however.

Being that the team will still be rebuilding, I'd be shocked if one or two notable players aren't out at the deadline.

 

[Ola]

We don't know what the next few drafts will bring. Honka's little brother Antonni looks like a quality RD for 2019. Drew Helleson is another highly touted RD in 2019. Boston College freshman in the fall. Greg Brown knows him very well. Just because Karlsson is available and Trouba could be available in a trade next summer doesn't make them part of the solution. They will both come with huge price tags until their mid to late 30's. A 7 year contract for Karlsson takes him to 36. A 7 year contract takes Trouba to 33 in 2020 when he is a free agent. The Rangers have been there and done that with signing D until their mid 30's with awful results.

Thinking Gorton can build a blueline by drafting Ds in 2019 or later is a big mistake. Possibly the biggest mistake we can do.

Almost all young Ds you draft need more than 4-5 years before they really can make a difference. Even if they are really good. If they play for crap teams when they are too young they so often does not develop well. A Charlie McAvoy is very rare. Guys like Hedman, Trouba, Carlson and go are the norm. It’s physically very demanding to be a top D, you get there when you are 24-25 years. Skjei is a good example. He is still growing into it. Drafted 6 years ago. Next year he can be a core piece on our defense. D+7.

We should count on Ds we draft in 2019 to be able to carry a core role on our blueline around 2023-2024. We have been rebuilding for a year. If we are building our blueline around those guys we will get helped by them 6 years into a rebuild, that would surely mean that the culture around this team gets EDM bad.

This is the mistake EDM and co have done too. Trying to build the team around Ds drafted at the same time as the forwards they drafted. Sid and McD won the Art Ross in D+1 right (second season after draft). Nurse and the likes arrives 5-6 years after drafted. The forwards are brought up with bad support from the blueline and don’t develop well and then the Ds comes in and are developed behind ruined forwards.

Best way is to have a blueline core that is 4-5 years older than the forward core. Keith and Seabrook were older than Toews and Kane — and so forth.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Well, color me surprised.

TBF, I'm all aboard the "do nothing" train right now.