GDT: Free Agent Frenzy (in October!) | Sharks throw a pile of money at Labanc, re-sign Noesen, Marleau(?)

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Fistfullofbeer

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May 9, 2011
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The part that pisses me off the most about DW right now is the fact that he blamed injuries and poor goaltending on last years woes. But he has literally put us in the exact same position as last year. Our depth is so laughably bad that if we have even one injury to one of our "5" top 6 forwards, we're back to having Joe Thornton, Gambrell, or Sorenson in the top 6. To address goaltending he adds Dubnyk, a goalie that actually has had worse stats than our current terrible goaltender.

I don't think the moves he's made so far have been to tank. I truly believe he has lost his way and believes that this team is a contender, and we've been forced into a spot where I don't see us improving significantly anytime soon.
The lack of moves is what I alluded to as a quiet attempt at tanking. Donato is a decent add. Dubnyk is questionable. Noesen is good but at the same time does not match up with what he said earlier about the kids being ready to step in to roles. Overall, he has really not done anything to make us better. He is betting our success on new coaching, better goal tending and staying healthy. That is a big risk considering we were 3rd worst in the league last season.

Sheng actually wrote a pretty good article on the Labanc signing.

An Argument for Kevin Labanc’s New Contract

Basically, the reason Labanc is a top-6 F is because we have no better options really. He plays in our top-6, hence he is a top-6 F.
 
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Jargon

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To give DW some credit here, I’m sure he knows the team isn’t in a good spot but he’s not going to come out and say that. We have no idea what goes on behind the scenes - his conversations with FAs may have yielded nothing (we were a terrible team last year why come here?). The trade market might not be yielding anything either — so he needs to spin this to be optimistic and hope that either something comes through or we get lucky and players start performing the way they should or better.

He’s not going to come out and say, yeah look I failed at attracting any free agents and no one wants to trade for our spare parts right now, so we’re stuck with this subpar team, sorry, see you next year.

He’s going to spin a good story and hope he has a chance to improve the team now or during the year.
 
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tiburon12

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To give DW some credit here, I’m sure he knows the team isn’t in a good spot but he’s not going to come out and say that. We have no idea what goes on behind the scenes - his conversations with FAs may have yielded nothing (we were a terrible team last year why come here?). The trade market might not be yielding anything either — so he needs to spin this to be optimistic and hope that either something comes through or we get lucky and players start performing the way they should or better.

He’s not going to come out and say, yeah look I failed at attracting any free agents and no one wants to trade for our spare parts right now, so we’re stuck with this subpar team, sorry, see you next year.

He’s going to spin a good story and hope he has a chance to improve the team now or during the year.

Also, it's a poor business decision to overreact to a shitty year that was plagued by injuries and had a coaching change, especially via FA or trades. The Sharks werent good last year but you could explain away some of the poor performances.

By far the biggest issue was goaltending, and DW made an effort to shore that up. Sure, Dubnyk isn't going to be Brodeur and save the crease, but he is a potential short term solution that we can get out of at no cost at season's end. Look how difficult it is for Vegas to trade Fleury's contract, even with retention. DW has to make a real effort to make Jones work before he does something like buy him out.

Similarly, DW has no idea what a full season of Boughner will be like, so rather than pump the team full of FA's, it's less risky to see what he has and how his current roster performs. His recent risk-taking signings and trades haven't all worked out, so this approach makes sense.

Is it what we want as fans? probably not. But is it the safest strategy in this bizarre reality? yes.
 

TomasHertlsRooster

Don’t say eye test when you mean points
May 14, 2012
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In fairness, Pagnotta is only mildly above Eklund tier chicanery when it comes to the sources of his "rumors"

No he isn't. He's far above Eklund. He's a member of the PHWA and a host on NHL Network Radio. He frequently beats the TSN crews on scoops. Eklund on the other hand is a hack with no real connections who never breaks anything and he has made it abundantly clear on many occasions that he is just making stuff up.
 

themelkman

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No he isn't. He's far above Eklund. He's a member of the PHWA and a host on NHL Network Radio. He frequently beats the TSN crews on scoops. Eklund on the other hand is a hack with no real connections who never breaks anything and he has made it abundantly clear on many occasions that he is just making stuff up.
Yeah I dont think Pagnotta is amazing but hes usually somewhat actually clued in compared to actually making stuff up and making you pay for it
 

one2gamble

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Dec 24, 2007
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Sheng actually wrote a pretty good article on the Labanc signing.

An Argument for Kevin Labanc’s New Contract

Basically, the reason Labanc is a top-6 F is because we have no better options really. He plays in our top-6, hence he is a top-6 F.
That would be terrible management.

DW could have basically rebuilt the top 6 for virtually free this off-season and best I cat tell he's mostly just let it ride.

If bancer thought he was a top six player he should play like one.
 

tiburon12

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Jul 18, 2009
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No he isn't. He's far above Eklund. He's a member of the PHWA and a host on NHL Network Radio. He frequently beats the TSN crews on scoops. Eklund on the other hand is a hack with no real connections who never breaks anything and he has made it abundantly clear on many occasions that he is just making stuff up.

Didn't Pagnotta break the Tavares signing? Only in this thread have i heard him be named in the same breath as Eklund
 
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The Nemesis

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I must be confusing Pagnotta with someone else. I could swear I've seen a rundown of fake rumors from him that comes across as quite Eklundesque
 

FunkyPhin

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Feb 2, 2011
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That would be terrible management.

DW could have basically rebuilt the top 6 for virtually free this off-season and best I cat tell he's mostly just let it ride.

If bancer thought he was a top six player he should play like one.

Agreed, 13 million would have gone a long long way improving the hell out of our top 6. A lot of forwards signed some bargain contracts, Smith, Namestikov, Ryan would all have been great cheap forwards with a good chance to produce, would have been amazing for our depth.

Not to mention a Hall for 8, even 9 million + a Smith, would have given our top 6 a much, much needed injection of forward talent. Or even Dadanov + any of the above mentioned would have been so nice. ANY of these would have given me some enthusiasm for next year.

Who knows though, maybe DW did reach out to all these players and none of them were interested. Either way my optimism for next years team went right out the window in the span of a week lol.
 

The Nemesis

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We cant even make space for Killorn right now. That sucks

They could just squeeze him in if they trade Sorensen for nothing (or somehow involve him in a deal for Killorn. Which would probably suck because Sorensen's value is minimal and would partially defeat the purpose of the Bolts trading him to shed salary and create cap room)

Killorn makes $4.45m

The Sharks currently have $2.99m in cap space with 14 F, 6D, 2G.

Sorensen makes $1.5m against the cap.

Dump Sorensen for... anything that doesn't cost cap space, Sharks cap total increases to $4.49m

Acquire Killorn for no other NHL salary going out, Sharks down to $40,000 in cap space. In theory you could make it more interesting by trading Gambrell to the Bolts for Killorn so they have a sub-league-minimum player to offset the loss of one of their regulars. That would put the Sharks to $740k of cap space. It wouldn't be enough to sign any FAs since the league minimum salary on new contracts is $750k, but they would be able to call up a couple of Cuda defenders who are making $700k to serve as the 7th d-man. But before we do that, let's see where else we can generate some savings.

First, add Marleau to the roster at $750k. I know he was previously reported to get $1m but the team literally cannot afford that in this scenario so let's hope that Patty takes one for the team and for the sake of coming back to chase his record setting GP total in teal. In return, subtract Lean Bergmann, who he replaces in the lineup. Bergman makes $836,667. Net effect is a cap space increase of about $86,667.

New cap figure is $826,667

Next, add Thornton also at the minimum of $750k just because the team needs still all the help it can get against the cap and a cheaper hit makes him more attractive at the trade deadline since, let's be honest, this club as it stands is not competing for anything of substance barring a miracle. Subtract Alex True, who Thornton replaces. True makes $763,333. Net effect is cap space increase of 13,333.

New cap figure is $840,000.

The Sharks still have 13 forwards and just barely enough money to add one more player to the roster: a final d-man to give them 7. Now they can either call up one of the d-men from the Barracuda (Not Pasichnuk, who makes $925,000, or Merkley either off the Cuda or out of the OHL since he's at $863,333, but they can go from Knyzhov at $796,667 to Carrick and DeSimone making $700k (the last two being the ones I alluded to off the top as the guys the team could call up to be the 7th D if they just got Killorn and didn't sign Patty/Jumbo at the minimum). Or they can theoretically sign a defender of the FA market even though the market for decent 3rd pairing guys is kind of garbage now. Seriously, knowing there's no chance at the likes of Pietrangelo, Vatanen, or even Ceci, the remaining options are names such as Jan Rutta, Madison Bowey, or Yanick Weber. Or Tim Heed. :D

I made the case for Heed as a cheap 3rd pair RHD in my giant post a couple of pages back that was invalid before I finished it, so let's go for him right now at... say... $800k (a pay cut from his last deal, but maybe he takes it if he's promised a real shot at ice time, knowing he was more productive under Boughner last season and the other options aren't terribly attractive and this is very much a "devil you know" situation). Middleton becomes the 7D. Sharks end with $40,000 in cap space to mostly be used as a float for instances where they have to offset salaries if injuries occur and players need to be replaced over the long haul. The other sticky issue in this scenario is that the only waiver-exempt player on the roster would be Gregor. But we'll burn that bridge if and when we come to it.

I would also like to give Handemark a shot, but at $792,500 he is too expensive to replace Kellman or Suomela. The only way he's being added to the roster is at the expense of Gregor and then you lose your only waiver-exempt player, meaning the moment anyone gets hurt and requires a call-up replacement you risk losing a player on waivers for nothing.

So here's our final roster:

Kane - Couture - Meier
Killorn - Hertl - Labanc
Donato - Thornton - Gregor
Marleau - Kellman - Noesen
ex: Suomela

Vlasic - Karlsson
Ferraro - Burns
Simek - Heed
ex: Middleton

Jones
Dubnyk

And $40,000 in pocket change left to spare.

ain't gonna happen though.


EDIT: it took me about 20 minutes to do the cap calcs and research names for the d-man portion of that post. Has anything happened between then and now that would make all of this useless?

*checks hockey twitter, transaction pages*

No? Good. Then all my work is only mostly for nothing, and not entirely so.
 
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STL Shark

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Mar 6, 2013
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I agree. I don't know why DW sees Labanc as 60 point forward as he has never surpassed it and he scored those 56 points on best team Sharks have ever have (On paper) with Hall of Famer Joe frickin Thornton as his center. During that season Jumbo was also still playing top 6 level hockey.

I would maybe go as far as saying that I wouldn't even have qualified Labanc if it would have meant we would have had space for Hall. Or if we would have signed Smith and Toffoli/Dadonov with the money. I'm just laughing how we are so tight against cap even though we have only 4 top 6 forwards.

Overall I think Donato and Dubnyk trade and all DW's offseason moves to build 2021 team has been rubbish and it seems like he is not going to sign any forwards which we would definitely need.
Thank goodness you’re not a GM if you’d have saddled another huge dollar deal for Hall and let a valuable commodity (whether trade or on ice) in Labanc go non-QO’d. About the worst ideas for how this offseason should’ve gone I’ve seen yet.
 

STL Shark

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The part that pisses me off the most about DW right now is the fact that he blamed injuries and poor goaltending on last years woes. But he has literally put us in the exact same position as last year. Our depth is so laughably bad that if we have even one injury to one of our "5" top 6 forwards, we're back to having Joe Thornton, Gambrell, or Sorenson in the top 6. To address goaltending he adds Dubnyk, a goalie that actually has had worse stats than our current terrible goaltender.

I don't think the moves he's made so far have been to tank. I truly believe he has lost his way and believes that this team is a contender, and we've been forced into a spot where I don't see us improving significantly anytime soon.
Damn. Didnt realize DW was out slashing ACLs and rehiring Hedberg and DeBoer this offseason to put us right back in the same position for injuries and bad goaltending once again.
 

STL Shark

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We cant even make space for Killorn right now. That sucks
It’d be a huge mistake even if we could make space for him. He’s an older average player making a lot of money with term left while playing a style of game we have already on the LW. He’s a career 3rd liner that looks nice right now because he rode a shooting percentage of 20% to a career high scoring season this year. His career average is 11% so when he regresses back to his mean, there’d be more pitchforks out once again to kill DW publicly in the streets outside SAP Center for tacking an overpriced veteran onto the books and so now we can’t sign _______ (insert next off season’s overpriced veteran forward coming off an anomaly of a career year).

There are legitimate concerns/gripes about DW this offseason, but not signing the slew of top 6 guys isnt one of them. None of those players was going to make us a contender with the likes of Colorado unless our core group stepped up and played to their capability. If they play the way they should, there’s not a real need for a Toffoli, Dadonov, etc. because there are already a slew of four 30 goal scorers in that top 6.

Where the complaint for this offseason goes is the over reliance on our younger prospects with less than stellar pedigree taking a big step into being every night bottom 6 players. Seeing the likes of Boyd, Hinostroza, Ryan, etc. sign 1 year $1 million deals elsewhere is where I am upset. Those players would improve our roster while also not breaking the bank and tying up roster spots or salary long term. They’re also players that will always be in demand at the TDL should our top guys not step up as noted above and could yield us a nice little return if we’re out of the hunt. If we’re going to complain about the offseason thus far, that’s where the issue lies, not with missing Hall, Toffoli, etc.
 
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Dicdonya

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They could just squeeze him in if they trade Sorensen for nothing (or somehow involve him in a deal for Killorn. Which would probably suck because Sorensen's value is minimal and would partially defeat the purpose of the Bolts trading him to shed salary and create cap room)

Killorn makes $4.45m

The Sharks currently have $2.99m in cap space with 14 F, 6D, 2G.

Sorensen makes $1.5m against the cap.

Dump Sorensen for... anything that doesn't cost cap space, Sharks cap total increases to $4.49m

Acquire Killorn for no other NHL salary going out, Sharks down to $40,000 in cap space. In theory you could make it more interesting by trading Gambrell to the Bolts for Killorn so they have a sub-league-minimum player to offset the loss of one of their regulars. That would put the Sharks to $740k of cap space. It wouldn't be enough to sign any FAs since the league minimum salary on new contracts is $750k, but they would be able to call up a couple of Cuda defenders who are making $700k to serve as the 7th d-man. But before we do that, let's see where else we can generate some savings.

First, add Marleau to the roster at $750k. I know he was previously reported to get $1m but the team literally cannot afford that in this scenario so let's hope that Patty takes one for the team and for the sake of coming back to chase his record setting GP total in teal. In return, subtract Lean Bergmann, who he replaces in the lineup. Bergman makes $836,667. Net effect is a cap space increase of about $86,667.

New cap figure is $826,667

Next, add Thornton also at the minimum of $750k just because the team needs still all the help it can get against the cap and a cheaper hit makes him more attractive at the trade deadline since, let's be honest, this club as it stands is not competing for anything of substance barring a miracle. Subtract Alex True, who Thornton replaces. True makes $763,333. Net effect is cap space increase of 13,333.

New cap figure is $840,000.

The Sharks still have 13 forwards and just barely enough money to add one more player to the roster: a final d-man to give them 7. Now they can either call up one of the d-men from the Barracuda (Not Pasichnuk, who makes $925,000, or Merkley either off the Cuda or out of the OHL since he's at $863,333, but they can go from Knyzhov at $796,667 to Carrick and DeSimone making $700k (the last two being the ones I alluded to off the top as the guys the team could call up to be the 7th D if they just got Killorn and didn't sign Patty/Jumbo at the minimum). Or they can theoretically sign a defender of the FA market even though the market for decent 3rd pairing guys is kind of garbage now. Seriously, knowing there's no chance at the likes of Pietrangelo, Vatanen, or even Ceci, the remaining options are names such as Jan Rutta, Madison Bowey, or Yanick Weber. Or Tim Heed. :D

I made the case for Heed as a cheap 3rd pair RHD in my giant post a couple of pages back that was invalid before I finished it, so let's go for him right now at... say... $800k (a pay cut from his last deal, but maybe he takes it if he's promised a real shot at ice time, knowing he was more productive under Boughner last season and the other options aren't terribly attractive and this is very much a "devil you know" situation). Middleton becomes the 7D. Sharks end with $40,000 in cap space to mostly be used as a float for instances where they have to offset salaries if injuries occur and players need to be replaced over the long haul. The other sticky issue in this scenario is that the only waiver-exempt player on the roster would be Gregor. But we'll burn that bridge if and when we come to it.

I would also like to give Handemark a shot, but at $792,500 he is too expensive to replace Kellman or Suomela. The only way he's being added to the roster is at the expense of Gregor and then you lose your only waiver-exempt player, meaning the moment anyone gets hurt and requires a call-up replacement you risk losing a player on waivers for nothing.

So here's our final roster:

Kane - Couture - Meier
Killorn - Hertl - Labanc
Donato - Thornton - Gregor
Marleau - Kellman - Noesen
ex: Suomela

Vlasic - Karlsson
Ferraro - Burns
Simek - Heed
ex: Middleton

Jones
Dubnyk

And $40,000 in pocket change left to spare.

ain't gonna happen though.


EDIT: it took me about 20 minutes to do the cap calcs and research names for the d-man portion of that post. Has anything happened between then and now that would make all of this useless?

*checks hockey twitter, transaction pages*

No? Good. Then all my work is only mostly for nothing, and not entirely so.


Sadly all your work is still for nothing as DW won’t do any of that.

At least it seems people are starting to join my side of the force, which is good, let the hate and anger fill you, give in to the temptation of the dark side, and finally say it with me... “fire Doug Wilson”
 

STL Shark

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I’d be curious to know what it would take for Roslovic, that’s the type of player the Sharks should be targeting.
Roslovic has been on my wish list for months. Not sure what a deal would look like for him though either. Something centered around Blichfeld+3rd/4th round pick is where I would guess a match would be found on our end. Maybe add Sorensen in there too to give WPG a little NHL depth while also clearing some cap space for us.

Edit: Looks like WPG is looking for a top 4 LHD. Can't imagine DW would do Simek deal (even though he should), so guessing it's a no go for SJ.
 
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Alaskanice

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Roslovic has been on my wish list for months. Not sure what a deal would look like for him though either. Something centered around Blichfeld+3rd/4th round pick is where I would guess a match would be found on our end. Maybe add Sorensen in there too to give WPG a little NHL depth while also clearing some cap space for us.

Edit: Looks like WPG is looking for a top 4 LHD. Can't imagine DW would do Simek deal (even though he should), so guessing it's a no go for SJ.
I was thinking the same thing, Simek for Roslovic.
 

STL Shark

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Mar 6, 2013
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I was thinking the same thing, Simek for Roslovic.
Would be a prudent move for us given everything we have coming up on the left side, especially with Vlasic's contract being immovable. Ferraro, Pasichnuk, Kniazev, Middleton, Knyzhov, Hattaka, etc. all on the left side is ample depth to be able to move a #5 playing as a #4 in Simek. Then again, the numbers with/without Simek are staggering for some unquantifiable reason so I can somewhat understand holding onto him at this point, especially given there's not a physical presence on the blue line other than him and sometimes Burns.
 

Alaskanice

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Would be a prudent move for us given everything we have coming up on the left side, especially with Vlasic's contract being immovable. Ferraro, Pasichnuk, Kniazev, Middleton, Knyzhov, Hattaka, etc. all on the left side is ample depth to be able to move a #5 playing as a #4 in Simek. Then again, the numbers with/without Simek are staggering for some unquantifiable reason so I can somewhat understand holding onto him at this point, especially given there's not a physical presence on the blue line other than him and sometimes Burns.
I think if they move him, some stop gap, physical player can do spot duty. Unless they can move Sorenson as well.
 
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