Free Agent Frenzy - Friday 10/9

[Nut Upstrom]

I don't want to post this on the main trade forum because I didn't want to start a war, but seriously, what are the Leafs thinking signing Thornton?

I understand veteran presence, but I'd have tried to talk Justin Williams out of retirement before bringing in Jumbo Joe for that at any price. Bringing in a 41 yr old who was stripped of the captaincy wouldn't be my first choice for leadership.

I seriously don't get it. Am I missing something?

Ill send the Leafs a personal thank you card if this means I don't have to see his stupid beard for a year.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Dubas has been great at this off-season. Did make cap room throwing out unneeded 3M midget wingers (Johnsson, Kapanen) to make room fro TJ Brodie. That's a real defenceman like Muzzin on the mix, finally. Replaced the wingers with cheap new guys, like promoting Robertson and signing Vesey (700k).

Letting Barrie walk, and replaced him with best KHL player Mikko Lehtonen (with ELC price). Then added these vets to 4th line, which are a strength. Boyd and Simmonds great role players for dirt cheap. He has added multiple players with lesser caphit than their real worth is. Next season Toronto will be better Team than any season under him.

He was abysmal before. This season is like Ken Holland at 2005-06.

I think you massively overrate what he's done.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Dubas is a bad GM. I think the majority of moves he’s done since taking over have been bad. Thornton is the last thing they need, but Dubas is just crazy about building his all-offense team.

From the outside it does kind of feel like they had a pretty comprehensive rebuild plan, but then made the playoffs earlier than expected and it all kind of went out the window.

Also, he has new knees as well. Seems silly especially since he has never won much in his career and isn't exactly the most stellar person away from the rink.

That's where I'm at with it. Stripped of the captaincy on a team that has been good for a long time but not won it all. And maybe not the best role model off the ice.

Again, at 700k it's low risk but seems like a more of an attention getting move than putting together the veterans they need to get them past the 1st round.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

With Anthony DuClair not being qualified by Ottawa, would it be worth taking a flyer on that guy?

According to the thread on the trades and FA forum, the guy tried representing himself thinking he'd save a few bucks/get a better deal than his agent could. I'm not sure what lead him to representing himself, but that's generally a bad idea.

Now that he's on the open market, what would it take to get him on the team? And would it be worthwhile?

 

[JustJokinenAround]

From the outside it does kind of feel like they had a pretty comprehensive rebuild plan, but then made the playoffs earlier than expected and it all kind of went out the window.

once they made the playoffs in matthews' first year and really challenged the caps everything got moved up a year. they weren't expecting to make the playoffs and then they did and the expectations changed. bringing in tavares was a mistake because it brought on a lot of expectations for a team that was not ready for that. yes i know hindsight is 20/20 but sticking to the plan with the group without tavares would have been ideal. once they made the playoffs and played against the caps the expectations changed and with dubas becoming gm the shanaplan went into overdrive and they end up with the mess they have now.

 

[Gniwder]

With Anthony DuClair not being qualified by Ottawa, would it be worth taking a flyer on that guy?

According to the thread on the trades and FA forum, the guy tried representing himself thinking he'd save a few bucks/get a better deal than his agent could. I'm not sure what lead him to representing himself, but that's generally a bad idea.

Now that he's on the open market, what would it take to get him on the team? And would it be worthwhile?

He's 25, and he's already been on 5 different NHL teams. If 5 NHL coaches can't fix him, Blashill doesn't have a chance. There a whole bunch of Torts quotes if you want to Google it.

He basically just does his own thing on the ice, might as well sign AA and Perlini as well, put them all on the ice together, and we can all get a good laugh.

 

[Henkka]

Think I'd make some cap trade to help Tampa. Like:

Luke Glendening with 50% retention (900k)
<>
Tyler Johnson (5M) + Cedric Paquette (1.65M) + 1st round pick.

Paquette is carbon copy of Glendening. They would get the cheaper player.

Think we could sell Paquette again (for a 2nd?) at the trade deadline. Retent 50% then again to make him just 825k caphit.

At next off-season, Yzerman negotiates Johnson moving to Seattle, so we don't lose any significant young player, and get rid of that bigger salary.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

He's 25, and he's already been on 5 different NHL teams. If 5 NHL coaches can't fix him, Blashill doesn't have a chance. There a whole bunch of Torts quotes if you want to Google it.

He basically just does his own thing on the ice, might as well sign AA and Perlini as well, put them all on the ice together, and we can all get a good laugh.

He has actually played for more then 5 in his career

Alain Vigneault (NYR)
Dave Tippett (Ari)
Rick Tocchett (Ari)
Joel Quenneville (Chi)
John Tortorella (Clb)
Guy Boucher (Ott)
Marc Crawford (Ott)
D.J Smith (Ott)

It safe to say he is what he is a guy who will get hot for a few weeks and then go MIA for months

 

[ArmChairGM89]

He has actually played for more then 5 in his career

Alain Vigneault (NYR)
Dave Tippett (Ari)
Rick Tocchett (Ari)
Joel Quenneville (Chi)
John Tortorella (Clb)
Guy Boucher (Ott)
Marc Crawford (Ott)
D.J Smith (Ott)

It safe to say he is what he is a guy who will get hot for a few weeks and then go MIA for months

I wonder if having so many different coaches has effected his development.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

Think I'd make some cap trade to help Tampa. Like:

Luke Glendening with 50% retention (900k)
<>
Tyler Johnson (5M) + Cedric Paquette (1.65M) + 1st round pick.

Paquette is carbon copy of Glendening. They would get the cheaper player.

Think we could sell Paquette again (for a 2nd?) at the trade deadline. Retent 50% then again to make him just 825k caphit.

At next off-season, Yzerman negotiates Johnson moving to Seattle, so we don't lose any significant young player, and get rid of that bigger salary.

So what happens if/when Seattle doesn't want Johnson (pretty likely, at least 50/50%) ? We're not paying to dump Johnson.

A very late 1st for 4 yrs of $5M cap/salary isn't anywhere near enough. On top of that you have us retain a good bottom 6'er & great team fit, for another slightly lesser one & we lose a RHS-C (d-zone draws). Then we retain on Paq for a possible, but imo improbable 2nd?

Does Not Compute.

 

[Gniwder]

I wonder if having so many different coaches has effected his development.

It might if he listened to any of them.

So what happens if/when Seattle doesn't want Johnson (pretty likely, at least 50/50%) ? We're not paying to dump Johnson.

A very late 1st for 4 yrs of $5M cap/salary isn't anywhere near enough. On top of that you have us retain a good bottom 6'er & great team fit, for another slightly lesser one & we lose a RHS-C (d-zone draws). Then we retain on Paq for a possible, but imo improbable 2nd?

Does Not Compute.

TJ is from Spokane, WA. There are a bunch of local fans that want him back, but that doesn't mean he'll get picked, but it's the reason why he gets mentioned so much in the expansion draft.

If there's any player the local fans really want, it's the other TJ.... Oshie from Everett. I have a coworker that knows his family because they were neighbors. I would imagine the Caps protect TJ even though he's getting old. He's a fan favorite wherever he plays.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

It might if he listened to any of them.



TJ is from Spokane, WA. There are a bunch of local fans that want him back, but that doesn't mean he'll get picked, but it's the reason why he gets mentioned so much in the expansion draft.

If there's any player the local fans really want, it's the other TJ.... Oshie from Everett. I have a coworker that knows his family because they were neighbors. I would imagine the Caps protect TJ even though he's getting old. He's a fan favorite wherever he plays.

Yep, I know.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Hope Ryan has great season. What can we get for him at trade deadline

3rd. Hopefully 2nd

 

[Gniwder]

3rd. Hopefully 2nd

Pittsburgh Penguins: Patrick Marleau
San Jose Sharks: 2020 conditional third-round pick (Pick becomes a second if Penguins win the Cup.)

Ottawa Senators: 2021 fourth-round pick
Colorado Avalanche: Vladislav Namestnikov

Washington Capitals: Ilya Kovalchuk (Canadiens retain 50% of Kovalchuk’s salary)
Montreal Canadiens: 2020 third-round pick

Buffalo Sabres: Michael Frolik
Calgary Flames: 2020 fourth-round pick (originally owned by San Jose)

So probably a third or 4th unless he plays so well that a team is interested in resigning him for the next season. Dmen tend to fetch more at the deadline than secondary scoring, with even Andy Greene getting a 2nd.

AA got 2 second round picks, but he was RFA, and obviously much younger. Plus Holland is an idiot, lol.

 

[Winger98]

So what happens if/when Seattle doesn't want Johnson (pretty likely, at least 50/50%) ? We're not paying to dump Johnson.

A very late 1st for 4 yrs of $5M cap/salary isn't anywhere near enough. On top of that you have us retain a good bottom 6'er & great team fit, for another slightly lesser one & we lose a RHS-C (d-zone draws). Then we retain on Paq for a possible, but imo improbable 2nd?

Does Not Compute.

I'd be pretty okay just hanging onto Johnson. Unless we're going to wade heavily into trades or UFA in the near future, we don't have anyone who really fills that 2C spot in the next two seasons. Johnson fills it this year, he fills it next year while ideally mentoring Ras/Veleno, he moves to wing the third year (or 3C) to ride shotgun for Ras/Veleno, dealt the fourth year, with retention if necessary.

And that's probably the best case scenario time line for Ras/Veleno to take over a center spot.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

I'd be pretty okay just hanging onto Johnson. Unless we're going to wade heavily into trades or UFA in the near future, we don't have anyone who really fills that 2C spot in the next two seasons. Johnson fills it this year, he fills it next year while ideally mentoring Ras/Veleno, he moves to wing the third year (or 3C) to ride shotgun for Ras/Veleno, dealt the fourth year, with retention if necessary.

And that's probably the best case scenario time line for Ras/Veleno to take over a center spot.

That sounds about right. I just wanna set our sights a bit higher than a good 3C playing a 2C role, even as soon as this season. I want Zadina/Fabbri getting good support & passes to really shine. SY has to figure a way to poach Cirelli, or similar caliber. A younger version (before the injuries) of Trochek would fit the bill.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

...

And that's probably the best case scenario time line for Ras/Veleno to take over a center spot.

Veleno in the SHL should boost his creativity & confidence, so maybe that'll be the catalyst to really developing into the 2C we desperately need. I just don't see 2C in Ras, maybe 3C though. No less than 3W/PP net beast.

 

[Winger98]

That sounds about right. I just wanna set our sights a bit higher than a good 3C playing a 2C role, even as soon as this season. I want Zadina/Fabbri getting good support & passes to really shine. SY has to figure a way to poach Cirelli, or similar caliber. A younger version (before the injuries) of Trochek would fit the bill.

Hey, I don't think I've been shy about banging the drum to bring in quality help this summer, either.

I just don't think it's going to happen. For whatever reason, Yzerman has stayed out of the deep end this off-season, now I'm pretty much expecting the same next year (though, wouldn't RNH look pretty good behind Larkin?). And I know from reading around here it seems the consensus is to be awful for at least another two years because picks.

I know there is hope that the flat cap puts teams in another bind next summer but these guys aren't stupid and there hasn't exactly been a crazy amount of cap dumps this year. I'm betting that given a full season, plus the expansion draft, to sort out rosters and get prepared for next summer...teams are going to be ready. If we really wanted to make the flat cap work in our favor I'm betting now is the time.

Long way of saying I agree with you, but I'd be surprised if something actually happened at this point.

 

[Gniwder]

Hey, I don't think I've been shy about banging the drum to bring in quality help this summer, either.

I just don't think it's going to happen. For whatever reason, Yzerman has stayed out of the deep end this off-season, now I'm pretty much expecting the same next year (though, wouldn't RNH look pretty good behind Larkin?). And I know from reading around here it seems the consensus is to be awful for at least another two years because picks.

I know there is hope that the flat cap puts teams in another bind next summer but these guys aren't stupid and there hasn't exactly been a crazy amount of cap dumps this year. I'm betting that given a full season, plus the expansion draft, to sort out rosters and get prepared for next summer...teams are going to be ready. If we really wanted to make the flat cap work in our favor I'm betting now is the time.

Long way of saying I agree with you, but I'd be surprised if something actually happened at this point.

It's not because of picks, it's a business decision. As soon as NHL arenas open up for attendance, then you'll see Chris spend. That could be next offseason if any of the vaccines work.

Nobody seems to really appreciate the business aspect of operating during this pandemic. Fortunately I'm a salaried "critical" employee, but I've got a lot of small business owner friends that are hurting right now. Even the rich don't like to see their wealth shrink.

 

[Henkka]

So what happens if/when Seattle doesn't want Johnson (pretty likely, at least 50/50%) ? We're not paying to dump Johnson.

A very late 1st for 4 yrs of $5M cap/salary isn't anywhere near enough. On top of that you have us retain a good bottom 6'er & great team fit, for another slightly lesser one & we lose a RHS-C (d-zone draws). Then we retain on Paq for a possible, but imo improbable 2nd?

Does Not Compute.

Ok. Let's not get extra draft picks if you like to get greedy with the compensation.

Think Johnson would help easily our crap team on-ice, if Seattle plans otherways. Then we can sell other vets, and keep him longer.

Bertuzzi - Larkin - Mantha
Fabbri - Johnson - Ryan
Filppula - Namestnikov - Zadina

 

[Oddbob]

Ok. Let's not get extra draft picks if you like to get greedy with the compensation.

Think Johnson would help easily our crap team on-ice, if Seattle plans otherways. Then we can sell other vets, and keep him longer.

Bertuzzi - Larkin - Mantha
Fabbri - Johnson - Ryan
Filppula - Namestnikov - Zadina

How do we get picks though, if we have to make a move so Seattle takes Johnson? If we did get Johnson, Seattle would absolutely take him without incentive as the rest of what is available is garbage for the most part.

 

[Henkka]

How do we get picks though, if we have to make a move so Seattle takes Johnson? If we did get Johnson, Seattle would absolutely take him without incentive as the rest of what is available is garbage for the most part.

I think Seattle takes Johnson, just because they like to take him. He is the local guy from there and that has value. Stanley Cup winner and everything. No incentives going on any direction. Just like Engelland was hyped like hell of his Vegas connections. And that guy was so meh as any. But he was seen more important off-ice than he ever was on-ice.

I've seen Tyler Johnson as the automatic Seattle-guy already for a year, no matter what team he is on that expansion draft time. Think he settles right on the border as "maybe protected guy" on a weak team, or exposed player on strong team finding cap help.

Without Seattle connections, maybe never picked up by Seattle. But because he is the ONLY player in NHL with Seattle connections, he will be picked, for sure, if not protected.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I think Seattle takes Johnson, just because they like to take him. He is the local guy from there and that has value. Stanley Cup winner and everything. No incentives going on any direction. Just like Engelland was hyped like hell of his Vegas connections. And that guy was so meh as any. But he was seen more important off-ice than he ever was on-ice.

I've seen Tyler Johnson as the automatic Seattle-guy already for a year, no matter what team he is on that expansion draft time. Think he settles right on the border as "maybe protected guy" on a weak team, or exposed player on strong team finding cap help.

Without Seattle connections, maybe never picked up by Seattle. But because he is the ONLY player in NHL with Seattle connections, he will be picked, for sure, if not protected.

We will see. 30 of 31 teams just turned their nose to his contract. Francis might take a Dekeyser or someone else instead even if he is available.

Other people have touched on it but my guess is Oshie is made available by Washington to help their cap crunch. He will serve in Seattle's version of MAF's Vegas run before the tire fire happened this year.

 

[saska sault]

With Anthony DuClair not being qualified by Ottawa, would it be worth taking a flyer on that guy?

According to the thread on the trades and FA forum, the guy tried representing himself thinking he'd save a few bucks/get a better deal than his agent could. I'm not sure what lead him to representing himself, but that's generally a bad idea.

Now that he's on the open market, what would it take to get him on the team? And would it be worthwhile?

I would be totally fine on a one year deal, can be trade deadline bate with retention. You know he will be motivated to earn himself another contract.. From what I have read, his mistakes were made in the contract negotiations and over valuing himself in a strange year of free agency. I dont believe there are any reports of locker room or on ice issues?

We need talent, and rentals never hurt to have during a rebuild. Our roster may be close to full but lots of those rosters spots can easily be moved/buried.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

He's 25, and he's already been on 5 different NHL teams. If 5 NHL coaches can't fix him, Blashill doesn't have a chance. There a whole bunch of Torts quotes if you want to Google it.

He basically just does his own thing on the ice, might as well sign AA and Perlini as well, put them all on the ice together, and we can all get a good laugh.

What are his deficiencies? Poor defensively like AA? Selfish? Prior to this year I've only seen his name when looking at a team's stat sheets.