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[Ogrezilla]

Martin to LA and Williams to Pitt makes sense next offseason.

does LA need Martin?

 

[iFishyHD]

Martin to LA and Williams to Pitt makes sense next offseason.

Trading rights?

does LA need Martin?

Yes actually. They could benefit from a good LHD. They have mainly 4/5s for lefties.

Martin-Doughty
Regehr/Greene/Martinez-Voynov

or something like that.

 

[mpp9]

does LA need Martin?

They could use another top 4 D. I dont see any young studs ready to take on big minutes, and they lost Mitchell and Scuds to free agency. Regehr is what he is at this point.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Trading rights?



Yes actually. They could benefit from a good LHD. They have mainly 4/5s for lefties.

Martin-Doughty
Regehr/Greene/Martinez-Voynov

or something like that.

No Muzzin?

That would be a pretty interesting deadline move if Maatta and Despres are both impressing. Its the flip of JMFJ for Carter. They are a team willing to trade good players.

 

[Hottubber]

They could use another top 4 D. I dont see any young studs ready to take on big minutes, and they lost Mitchell and Scuds to free agency. Regehr is what he is at this point.

Regehr replaces Scuds as a boat anchor on the team

 

[drpepper]

If the Pens are making a run and doing well enough to want a top 6 winger, they aren't going to trade Martin.

 

[mpp9]

I meant in free agency next year. LA is less likely to trade a Conn Smythe winner than we would be dealing Martin.

 

[Ogrezilla]

If the Pens are making a run and doing well enough to want a top 6 winger, they aren't going to trade Martin.

would you expect the kings to trade Jack Johnson at the deadline?

Like I said, it would require both Despres and Maatta to be playing very well. I don't think its terribly likely even then, but I don't think its impossible.

 

[iFishyHD]

No Muzzin?

I knew I was forgetting someone better then the rest of them, my bad, but you get the point, that is probably one of the best defenses in the league.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I meant in free agency next year. LA is less likely to trade a Conn Smythe winner than we would be dealing Martin.

this is true.

 

[iFishyHD]

Like I said, it would require both Despres and Maatta to be playing very well. I don't think its terribly likely even then, but I don't think its impossible.

I doubt it. I expect to see hot streaks and times where they are struggling for both of them. I mean it's not totally crazy to think it could happen, but I doubt it. If we trade Martin, who is the vet on the defense? Scuds? Letang? Ehrhoff? I would say Ehrhoff, but until he gets extended (based off the rumors), I wouldn't really say his heart is in the organization.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I doubt it. I expect to see hot streaks and times where they are struggling for both of them. I mean it's not totally crazy to think it could happen, but I doubt it. If we trade Martin, who is the vet on the defense? Scuds? Letang? Ehrhoff? I would say Ehrhoff, but until he gets extended (based off the rumors), I wouldn't really say his heart is in the organization.

Martin and Ehrhoff, at this point, are both in the same situation as far as that goes. And Letang damn well better be ready to start taking responsibilities of a veteran on this team. He's been here longer than anyone else on the blueline. He's played more seasons with us than Scuds has.

On the entire roster, has anyone but Fleury, Sid or Geno been with the team longer than Letang? This is year 8 for him, not counting the cup of coffee the year before he got his full time spot.

 

[drpepper]

would you expect the kings to trade Jack Johnson at the deadline?

Like I said, it would require both Despres and Maatta to be playing very well. I don't think its terribly likely even then, but I don't think its impossible.

I know most posters are banking on a mid-season or TDL trade to fill in the top 6, but (1) Pens have limited assets, (2) the assets that they have are not likely assets that other teams need (eg defensive prospects), and (3) the Pens's need, a top 6 winger or prospect that could play there, is likely to be rare and require overpayment.

And I think if the Pens are serious about making a run then moving Martin makes no sense.

I assume that Scuderi is virtually done as a top 4 defender and that the only reason he might be slotted that high is to give him a vet partner to cover his mistakes.

Given that, moving Martin means both Maatta and Despres would be in the top 4 with Ehrhoff and Letang. I don't think many teams compete with that much inexperience in the top 4. Then add that both the vets - Letang and Ehrhoff - have similar play styles in that they take more risks for offensive production.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

I know most posters are banking on a mid-season or TDL trade to fill in the top 6, but (1) Pens have limited assets, (2) the assets that they have are not likely assets that other teams need (eg defensive prospects), and (3) the Pens's need, a top 6 winger or prospect that could play there, is likely to be rare and require overpayment.

And I think if the Pens are serious about making a run then moving Martin makes no sense.

I assume that Scuderi is virtually done as a top 4 defender and that the only reason he might be slotted that high is to give him a vet partner to cover his mistakes.

Given that, moving Martin means both Maatta and Despres would be in the top 4 with Ehrhoff and Letang. I don't think many teams compete with that much inexperience in the top 4. Then add that both the vets - Letang and Ehrhoff - have similar play styles in that they take more risks for offensive production.

Ehrhoff's style of play is anything but risky. He's just very very solid in his decisions and his passes, and has a cannon of a shot. That's how he accrues points and drives possession.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Ehrhoff's style of play is anything but risky. He's just very very solid in his decisions and his passes, and has a cannon of a shot. That's how he accrues points and drives possession.

dude, if a d-man puts up points he is a liability in his own end. Always.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

dude, if a d-man puts up points he is a liability in his own end. Always.

Touche sir

 

[DearDiary]

This. I'd give him 5x5m. Not sure I'd want to go much higher than that... but it gives Pittsburgh a skilled top 6 winger and a reasonable cost. Then hopefully before he hits the wall, they can move him.

Pittsburgh doesn't need top level wingers (Ryan, Kane, etc). There's many under the radar players who would be significantly cheaper, who could really help this club. These types are also a lot easier to find than a top level winger in their 20s like those we all want.

Williams will be almost 38 at the end of that contract...

 

[Riptide]

Williams will be almost 38 at the end of that contract...

He will be 34 at the start of the season when his next contract kicks in (he turns 33 in Oct, and will be 34 for his next deal). So if he signs a 5 yr deal, he'll finish that last season when he's 38.5.

Gaborik is 32.5 and just signed a 7 yr deal, while Cammy just turned 32 this summer and signed a 5 yr deal. Orpik turns 34 next week and signed a 5 yr deal. Those are just three contracts that were just signed... I'm sure if I bothered looking there's other contracts with term that were given out over the last few years that are multi year deals that will take a player into their later 30s...

I don't think anyone will disagree that we need at least 1 top 6 winger - if not 2. And that's not even counting some sort of depth who can step up in case of injuries.

5m with a 74m cap is 6% of the cap... or the equivalent of a 2.63m contract when we had a 39m cap. Basically a solid/good top 9 depth option. If we can get Williams for 3 or 4 solid seasons at 5m (or even a tad over that), where he performs fine as a top 6 option I'd be more than happy. Ideally we could move him after that... however him on the 3rd line at 5m with a 80m+ cap (likely closer to 85m in 4+ years) isn't a big deal. Kind of like Dupuis at 3.75m today as a great 3rd liner isn't a big deal.

Sure I'd love [insert young top level winger here] on this team... but I also would rather keep our young assets (Pouliot, 1st(s), KK/BB, Despres, Maatta, etc). Getting someone who's not quite as good as said winger for free in FA, but still an effective player and still keeping what few assets we have is a hell of a lot better than trading the farm for a great young winger.

We need some skill... but it doesn't have to be first line level skill. Guys like MacA (who I wish we had signed instead of Scuds last summer), Williams, Vermette or Peverley (if healthy) are guys that can help us. Not the biggest names, but solid players who shouldn't cost a fortune (compared to Ryan, Spezza or Fleischmann - depending on this season) and in a supporting role have shown they can do quite well.

 

[Zbynek]

Pittsburgh doesn't need top level wingers (Ryan, Kane, etc). There's many under the radar players who would be significantly cheaper, who could really help this club. These types are also a lot easier to find than a top level winger in their 20s like those we all want.

Like who?

I think it's this type of mentality that has allowed opposing coaches to thrive off of matchups and overworked Malkin and Crosby's the past 5 years.

Because J Staal is now gone, you won't see a repeat of the 2009 ragtag cup-winning squad. In the absence of a elite 3 center model, a gamechanging winger is basically a must. James Neal failed to be that guy in many facets. Kunitz, Hornqvist, Bennett, whatever...are still by definition, complementary guys.

Simple economics. This the optimal time to unload d-men, at a time where our defense has never been deeper, in exchange for a high end winger. You can give less for a guy like McGinn or you can pony up for one of the bigger names by putting Maatta+ on the board. If Ehrhoff works out for us and wants to stay in Pittsburgh I easily take that gamble. Worst comes to worst, you lean on a guy like Bortuzzo to eventually step into the top-4 (I don't think that's unheard of).

 

[Kristopher Letang]

Like who?

I think it's this type of mentality that has allowed opposing coaches to thrive off of matchups and overworked Malkin and Crosby's the past 5 years.

Because J Staal is now gone, you won't see a repeat of the 2009 ragtag cup-winning squad. In the absence of a elite 3 center model, a gamechanging winger is basically a must. James Neal failed to be that guy in many facets. Kunitz, Hornqvist, Bennett, whatever...are still by definition, complementary guys.

Simple economics. This the optimal time to unload d-men, at a time where our defense has never been deeper, in exchange for a high end winger. You can give less for a guy like McGinn or you can pony up for one of the bigger names by putting Maatta+ on the board. If Ehrhoff works out for us and wants to stay in Pittsburgh I easily take that gamble. Worst comes to worst, you lean on a guy like Bortuzzo to eventually step into the top-4 (I don't think that's unheard of).

This. **** the Dupuis kind of guys playing with Crosby and **** the 3 center model. It's the past, Shero never understood that ****, time to change the plan.

 

[Riptide]

Like who?

I think it's this type of mentality that has allowed opposing coaches to thrive off of matchups and overworked Malkin and Crosby's the past 5 years.

Because J Staal is now gone, you won't see a repeat of the 2009 ragtag cup-winning squad. In the absence of a elite 3 center model, a gamechanging winger is basically a must. James Neal failed to be that guy in many facets. Kunitz, Hornqvist, Bennett, whatever...are still by definition, complementary guys.

Simple economics. This the optimal time to unload d-men, at a time where our defense has never been deeper, in exchange for a high end winger. You can give less for a guy like McGinn or you can pony up for one of the bigger names by putting Maatta+ on the board. If Ehrhoff works out for us and wants to stay in Pittsburgh I easily take that gamble. Worst comes to worst, you lean on a guy like Bortuzzo to eventually step into the top-4 (I don't think that's unheard of).

I disagree. While I'd love to have a game changing winger (Ryan, Hossa, Kane, etc), We don't "need" one. We do need someone who can make plays and draw coverage from Crosby/Malkin. Obviously the more of these wingers we have the better off we'd be. Kunitz and Hornqvist are not really these types of wingers. BB and hopefully KK might develop into someone like that (someone who can make a play and draw coverage - but not exactly a 1st line winger)... but it's still too soon to tell.

I'm not saying don't take a shot at Ryan if he hits FA (or any other winger of his ilk). I'm just saying I wouldn't trade the farm for someone like Kane. I'd rather have a B type of winger (such as Williams or any or the others I listed) and our prospects than moving multiple prospects and picks for someone like ROR or Kane.

 

[Riptide]

This. **** the Dupuis kind of guys playing with Crosby and **** the 3 center model. It's the past, Shero never understood that ****, time to change the plan.

I never once suggested someone like Dupuis should be signed. Every player I listed is a solid top 6 winger, or at the very least a skilled guy who can slid in anywhere in the top 9 and not look out of place. Dupuis doesn't fit either of those descriptions.

 

[mpp9]

Yeah, there are plenty of players out there who could make our team tougher to defend without having to deal prime assets.

DB and Shero seemed pretty content with Dupuis flanking Sid unless they could bring in a big name.

 

[drpepper]

Yeah, there are plenty of players out there who could make our team tougher to defend without having to deal prime assets.

DB and Shero seemed pretty content with Dupuis flanking Sid unless they could bring in a big name.

Any suggestions for who and what it would take to get them?

 

[3074326]

Any suggestions for who and what it would take to get them?

Guess it depends on the definition of prime asset, but Chris Stewart is available for a 1st or 2nd + prospect, Lupul is probably available for about the same.. Carolina will have some forwards available if they aren't competing at the deadline (probably Semin).

I'd like to get Stewart now if possible, maybe look at a deadline acquisition if the team takes well to the new system. I'm not throwing in the towel on this season before it starts, but I don't see us as a legitimate contender until we fix our top six winger depth and see how the young defenders handle the season. Fleury is another story. I think this is a year that we get our **** together for some serious contention in the following years.