Salary Cap: Free Agency IX | All Pens FA News, Legit FA Rumors, Trade Ideas Here

[Ogrezilla]

In general I agree, but the only issue is the one we're seeing with Dupuis right now. Freak injury, and the older player just can't heal from it like a younger one. So if you're going to spend Martin+ for a winger, you might as well spend Martin+ a bigger package and get yourself an E. Kane, as an example.

Martin will not be the main piece in a package for E.Kane. Martin with 1 year left is bringing back a top 6 winger with warts or a really good middle six tweener. You want a top 6 guy, he's going to either be old or unproven. And I'm not talking Palmieri or Tatar unproven, I'm talking Brett Connolly unproven. Maybe a team like Minnesota would be confident enough that they can re-sign him that we'd get a Neiderreiter for him. If you think 1 year of Martin can be the main piece in a deal for a guy like E.Kane, you are out to lunch.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

Martin will not be the main piece in a package for E.Kane. Martin with 1 year left is bringing back a top 6 winger with warts or a really good middle six tweener. You want a top 6 guy, he's going to either be old or unproven. And I'm not talking Palmieri or Tatar unproven, I'm talking Brett Connolly unproven. Maybe a team like Minnesota would be confident enough that they can re-sign him that we'd get a Neiderreiter for him. If you think 1 year of Martin can be the main piece in a deal for a guy like E.Kane, you are out to lunch.

But he can be a useful piece in a deal. And from an asset management perspective, we have Martin, Sutter, picks and D prospects from which to snag that top 6 wing.

 

[Riptide]

In three years, Marleau will still be better than any wing Sid has played with consistently other than Hossa. I completely believe that. He's that much better than the next best right now. I wouldn't be surprised if Marleau retires at about the level of Kunitz' peak.

You believe. However the reality is you have no way of knowing. It's simply a gamble... and one that could very easily go very wrong... leaving Pittsburgh with a shell of a player and a 6.66m cap hit.

If you're going to expend the assets Marleau would take... spend the same (or even slightly more) and get someone younger. Or better yet, spend half of them and get a tweener like McGinn who's younger, cheaper and doesn't have that some risk... or the same offensive ability. But I'd still take that over the risk that Marleau comes with.

 

[Ogrezilla]

You believe. However the reality is you have no way of knowing. It's simply a gamble... and one that could very easily go very wrong... leaving Pittsburgh with a shell of a player and a 6.66m cap hit.

If you're going to expend the assets Marleau would take... spend the same (or even slightly more) and get someone younger. Or better yet, spend half of them and get a tweener like McGinn who's younger, cheaper and doesn't have that some risk... or the same offensive ability. But I'd still take that over the risk that Marleau comes with.

I'd rather keep Martin than trade him for a tweener like McGinn. If he's not getting us a guy to fill a hole in the roster, then we shouldn't trade him. If we want him to get a guy to fill a hole in the roster, there's going to be some risk. Either that they might break down due to old age, or that they might never become as good as we want. Otherwise, they are going to be another guy like Downie, Dupuis and Bennett who can bounce back and forth between the 2nd and 3rd lines.

Personally, I'd prefer the guy who we know for sure will help us right now. That's either Martin or a trade for an older guy like Marleau. I'd love to be proven wrong about his trade value and see him bring back a guy like Tatar or E.Kane, but I don't even see it as a possibility.

But he can be a useful piece in a deal. And from an asset management perspective, we have Martin, Sutter, picks and D prospects from which to snag that top 6 wing.

If he can get it, that'd be great. The only way I think it happens is if the D prospect is the most valuable piece going their way. At least if you want a sure thing, long term solution.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

You believe. However the reality is you have no way of knowing. It's simply a gamble... and one that could very easily go very wrong... leaving Pittsburgh with a shell of a player and a 6.66m cap hit.

If you're going to expend the assets Marleau would take... spend the same (or even slightly more) and get someone younger. Or better yet, spend half of them and get a tweener like McGinn who's younger, cheaper and doesn't have that some risk... or the same offensive ability. But I'd still take that over the risk that Marleau comes with.

We saw it just last year with Dupes. Guy's a health nut and an iron man, then all of a sudden he gets a freak injury and at 35 the recovery process is going to be a long one.

 

[mpp9]

You believe. However the reality is you have no way of knowing. It's simply a gamble... and one that could very easily go very wrong... leaving Pittsburgh with a shell of a player and a 6.66m cap hit.

If you're going to expend the assets Marleau would take... spend the same (or even slightly more) and get someone younger. Or better yet, spend half of them and get a tweener like McGinn who's younger, cheaper and doesn't have that some risk... or the same offensive ability. But I'd still take that over the risk that Marleau comes with.

Why would we move valuable assets for a player who's no better than what we have already?

This board's become awful picky with who they want brought in. And given our history at landing quality wingers, I hope JR has an open mind.

Marleau is still a star player. And will remain a top 6 talent for the remainder of his contract. It's guessing on your part to assume he won't b/c he's shown no signs of slowing down and hasn't missed more than a handful of games in years.

I'm all for acquiring a younger player. But I don't see many teams giving them up for the same package as Kesler and MSL went for. And unless we're moving Maatta or DP, I don't see how we're landing one without some warts. Whether it be injury history, lack of proven top 6 talent or age.

Who are we getting that'd be a better player for a package based around Sutter+D-man not named Maatta or DP+1st?

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I'd rather keep Martin than trade him for a tweener like McGinn. If he's not getting us a guy to fill a hole in the roster, then we shouldn't trade him. If we want him to get a guy to fill a hole in the roster, there's going to be some risk. Either that they might break down due to old age, or that they might never become as good as we want. Otherwise, they are going to be another guy like Downie, Dupuis and Bennett who can bounce back and forth between the 2nd and 3rd lines.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Why would we move valuable assets for a player who's no better than what we have already?

This board's become awful picky with who they want brought in. And given our history at landing quality wingers, I hope JR has an open mind.

Marleau is still a star player. And will remain a top 6 talent for the remainder of his contract. It's guessing on your part to assume he won't b/c he's shown no signs of slowing down and hasn't missed more than a handful of games in years.

I'm all for acquiring a younger player. But I don't see many teams giving them up for the same package as Kesler and MSL went for. And unless we're moving Maatta or DP, I don't see how we're landing one without some warts. Whether it be injury history, lack of proven top 6 talent or age.

Who are we getting that'd be a better player for a package based around Sutter+D-man not named Maatta or DP+1st?

I don't understand why DP should be off-limits if it gets us the winger we need. He's a tremendous talent and could be a great future PP quarterback, but we've got enough skill and potential on the back-end to sustain the loss.

I don't think Johnston being here changes a thing on that front, either.

 

[mpp9]

I don't understand why DP should be off-limits if it gets us the winger we need. He's a tremendous talent and could be a great future PP quarterback, but we've got enough skill and potential on the back-end to sustain the loss.

I don't think Johnston being here changes a thing on that front, either.

What team is trading a young stud top 6 winger for an unproven D-man as the center piece?

I'd rather keep him if possible. Especially if a player of Marleau's caliber can be had without including such a piece.

I'm fine going the cheap route bringing in a less than ideal option as long as that player is a legitimate upgrade in skill in our top 6.

 

[Ogrezilla]

What team is trading a young stud top 6 winger for an unproven D-man as the center piece?

I'd rather keep him if possible. Especially if a player of Marleau's caliber can be had without including such a piece.

I'm fine going the cheap route bringing in a less than ideal option as long as that player is a legitimate upgrade in skill in our top 6.

I really think Pouliot has more value as the centerpiece for a top 6 wing than Martin. We aren't the only team that realizes Martin wants to test free agency in a year.

 

[JTG]

Cannot argue with wanting Marleau, but I have always thought, Marleau isn't going to graciously lose his game. When he loses it, it's going to be fast.

 

[mpp9]

I really think Pouliot has more value as the centerpiece for a top 6 wing than Martin. We aren't the only team that realizes Martin wants to test free agency in a year.

He'd have the most value to a team rebuilding. I just can't think of a scenario where he brings us a winger good enough to warrant dealing him.

DP was the rumored sticking point at the deadline for Kesler. I'd hardly call him a longterm solution. And he's not as productive as Marleau.

 

[Ogrezilla]

He'd have the most value to a team rebuilding. I just can't think of a scenario where he brings us a winger good enough to warrant dealing him.

DP was the rumored sticking point at the deadline for Kesler. I'd hardly call him a longterm solution. And he's not as productive as Marleau.

I don't disagree with that. I just don't think Martin will get us a winger good enough to warrant dealing him either. We're looking at a huge package to get the kind of winger without any warts that people seem to want.

 

[mpp9]

I don't disagree with that. I just don't think Martin will get us a winger good enough to warrant dealing him either. We're looking at a huge package to get the kind of winger without any warts that people seem to want.

Your last sentence is my point. If the ideal guy isn't out there, then why give up our quality young assets? Deal off the roster. Add in futures if need be.

Maybe a team that plans on targeting Martin in UFA wants a headstart on getting him signed and would value him as part of a package.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Your last sentence is my point. If the ideal guy isn't out there, then why give up our quality young assets? Deal off the roster. Add in futures if need be.

Maybe a team that plans on targeting Martin in UFA wants a headstart on getting him signed and would value him as part of a package.

If the ideal guy isn't out there, don't trade either. Trading Martin for a guy that isn't a clear upgrade over what we already have at wing makes no sense at all. If I'm trading Martin, I want someone who will come in and play at least as well as Kunitz this year. If there isn't a reasonable chance of that happening, I'd keep Martin.

Its going to be a big risk for any team to trade for Martin if they expect him to be around after this year. Basically, take what he's worth and add what his rights would be worth in the off-season.

 

[mpp9]

If the ideal guy isn't out there, don't trade either. Trading Martin for a guy that isn't a clear upgrade over what we already have at wing makes no sense at all.

I'd absolutely move Martin in a package for Marleau. Marleau is the superior player.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I'd absolutely move Martin in a package for Marleau. Marleau is the superior player.

I would too, because he'd clearly be the best winger on the team. I guess that's not ideal, but Marleau is good enough right now that I don't give a damn if he's old.

I think we'd need to add a pretty decent piece on top of Martin to get Marleau.

 

[mpp9]

I would too, because he'd clearly be the best winger on the team. I guess that's not ideal, but Marleau is good enough right now that I don't give a damn if he's old.

I think we'd need to add a pretty decent piece on top of Martin to get Marleau.

Maybe Sutter. Maybe a D prospect to help fully rebuild their blue line. Who knows.

If DW wants to move Marleau out and wants defense in return, we're the ideal trading partner. Especially when you factor in Marleau's NMC and likely only wanting to come to a contender.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Maybe Sutter. Maybe a D prospect to help fully rebuild their blue line. Who knows.

If DW wants to move Marleau out and wants defense in return, we're the ideal trading partner. Especially when you factor in Marleau's NMC and likely only wanting to come to a contender.

I'd do Martin and Dumoulin. That's probably where I'd need to draw the line.

 

[Riptide]

Why would we move valuable assets for a player who's no better than what we have already?

This board's become awful picky with who they want brought in. And given our history at landing quality wingers, I hope JR has an open mind.

Marleau is still a star player. And will remain a top 6 talent for the remainder of his contract. It's guessing on your part to assume he won't b/c he's shown no signs of slowing down and hasn't missed more than a handful of games in years.

I'm all for acquiring a younger player. But I don't see many teams giving them up for the same package as Kesler and MSL went for. And unless we're moving Maatta or DP, I don't see how we're landing one without some warts. Whether it be injury history, lack of proven top 6 talent or age.

Who are we getting that'd be a better player for a package based around Sutter+D-man not named Maatta or DP+1st?

And yet it's also guessing on your part that he won't slow down as he ages. 34/35 (last 2 seasons) isn't all that old in the grande scheme of things... so him slowing down previously might not be a big issue... but age does catch up to everyone... and it affects everyone in different ways. So he could easily hit a wall over the next couple of years...

No, getting someone for the same cost Kesler went for would require someone who either has flaws (age, contract, etc) or who specifically wants to come here and controls their fate. But we do not need someone of Marleau's caliber. I mean he'd be nice to have.. but we can get away with lesser guy until (like the Neal trade) find the right moves (either in FA or trade) that make sense. But there's no reason why we must make a move now... especially if it's a high risk one that isn't cheap. Getting Marleau could easily handcuff this team going forward the moment he's not a top 6 option. McGinn on the other hand had 19g, 38 pts while playing 13:42 ES icetime, 1:45 on the PP. There's room for some improvement there depending on who he plays with, and how he's used.

For 2014/15

Sutter+ for McGinn (or something around that). Trade Scuderi, retain 675k (2.725m cp hit). Add in a prospect if need be.

FORWARDS
Chris Kunitz ($3.850m) / Evgeni Malkin ($9.500m) / Patric Hornqvist ($4.250m)
Jamie McGinn ($2.950m) / Sidney Crosby ($8.700m) / Beau Bennett ($0.900m)
Pascal Dupuis ($3.750m) / Nick Spaling ($2.500m) / Steve Downie ($1.000m)
Blake Comeau ($0.700m) / Marcel Goc ($1.200m) / Jayson Megna ($0.874m)
Zach Sill ($0.550m) / Craig Adams ($0.700m)
DEFENSEMEN
Paul Martin ($5.000m) / Kris Letang ($7.250m)
Simon Despres ($1.300m) / Christian Ehrhoff ($4.000m)
Olli Maatta ($0.894m) / Robert Bortuzzo ($0.600m)
Philip Samuelsson ($0.550m) /
GOALTENDERS
Marc-Andre Fleury ($5.000m)
Thomas Greiss ($1.000m)
RETAINED SALARIES (0.98% of upper limit)
Rob Scuderi ($0.675m—20.00%)
BONUS OVERAGE
$0
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $69,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $67,693,292; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $1,306,708

Then for 2015/16 you have something like this.

Sign Ryan (or whatever), sign a goalie. Resign Ehrhoff. Resign Goc. Point is you'd have a TON of options going forward. Maybe McGinn shows he can be a great 3rd wheel, and BB shows he can be a good top 6 option. Then even without Ryan, we could have a half decent top 6. And money for great depth up front.

FORWARDS
Chris Kunitz ($3.850m) / Evgeni Malkin ($9.500m) / Patric Hornqvist ($4.250m)
Beau Bennett ($2.500m) / Sidney Crosby ($8.700m) / Bobby Ryan ($7.500m)
Jamie McGinn ($2.950m) / Nick Spaling ($2.500m) / Pascal Dupuis ($3.750m)
Blake Comeau ($0.700m) / Marcel Goc ($2.500m) /
Zach Sill ($0.550m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Olli Maatta ($0.894m) / Kris Letang ($7.250m)
Simon Despres ($1.300m) / Christian Ehrhoff ($6.000m)
Brian Dumoulin ($0.832m) / Robert Bortuzzo ($0.600m)
Philip Samuelsson ($0.550m) /
GOALTENDERS
Craig Anderson ($3.500m)
Thomas Greiss ($1.000m)
RETAINED SALARIES (0.98% of upper limit)
Rob Scuderi ($0.675m—20.00%)
BONUS OVERAGE
$0
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $74,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $71,850,833; BONUSES: $68,333
CAP SPACE (21-man roster): $2,149,167

 

[IcedCapp]

There's an algorithm for that...

I don't believe you

 

[AjaxTelamon]

I'd do Martin and Dumoulin. That's probably where I'd need to draw the line.

I would agree with that deal. From San Jose's perspective, it can't just be about value, but also about shaking things up and freeing up some cap space to retain their other up and comers and add in FA. And giving them a really dominant blue line this year to take a run at the cup.

And of course, transferring the risk of an injury ala Dupuis to us.

 

[mpp9]

I'd do Martin and Dumoulin. That's probably where I'd need to draw the line.

It'd probably take more, but I would imagine two D-men would interest them as the basis.

And it's not like they're afraid to deal for a pending UFA. They did it with Burns and re-signed him a couple months later.

They're not moving futures/young players this time. They're moving an older player who'd be part of a mini rebuild movement.

Maybe the Larry Robinson connection with NJ gives them an upper hand in keeping him.

And I'm not really convinced Martin wants to test free agency. He just may not like the direction of the team with the youth movement on defense. We're certainly not as desperate to sign him at all costs as a team with a huge hole on defense like SJ. Orpik mentioned as much in his interview with Madden. He threw Martin's name into the group that saw the transition on defense coming.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I would agree with that deal. From San Jose's perspective, it can't just be about value, but also about shaking things up and freeing up some cap space to retain their other up and comers and add in FA. And giving them a really dominant blue line this year to take a run at the cup.

And of course, transferring the risk of an injury ala Dupuis to us.

and adding Martin lets them keep Burns at forward.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

What team is trading a young stud top 6 winger for an unproven D-man as the center piece?

I'd rather keep him if possible. Especially if a player of Marleau's caliber can be had without including such a piece.

I'm fine going the cheap route bringing in a less than ideal option as long as that player is a legitimate upgrade in skill in our top 6.

Like Ogre said, I don't see anyone doing that for Martin either. That includes Marleau, and I don't even want the guy at his age and cap hit.

If we're serious about getting a legit top 6 winger better than Kunitz, it's probably going to cost us a package of a few of our better trade chips. One of Martin/Sutter, one of our higher end defense prospects, and possibly a draft pick.