Franson - Is it Sustainable????

[Delicious Dangles*]

i've been a franson hater, but i think he's been doing really well this year. his big problem was his huge blunders and he's not making as many of those. when he's paired with a stay at home defender, he's more effective and less of a liability (that's why he looked good with fraser too).

Bang on.

When there is defensive structure and somebody with a complimentary style who stays back and covers for him, and he keeps his feet moving, he can be effective. When he stops skating and has a defensive partner that pushes offensively, he is nothing short of a disaster.

Him and Phaneuf are so slow, but they have a similar defensive style and are playing much more conservatively, so it's working. Basically, the goal is stay back, angle incoming players to the side, and then just squish and hold them against the boards so that you can overwhelm them with numbers and take possession. They are both big, strong, physical guys, and this year are being supported by more players that can win puck battles, so it works.

The problem is, can we afford a long-term high salary deal for somebody that has been so historically inconsistent, doesn't fit with many players on our team, and NEEDS certain types of partners and players to not be a disaster.

In addition, if his speed is this bad now, what will his speed be like as he gets older? If he loses the ability to keep up with and angle off players coming into the zone, he loses essentially all of his defensive ability.

That's when you have Schenn.

 

[diceman934]

Seriously? You really miss soft old broken-hip Gunnarsson? You do know he's playing 13-14 minutes a night in St Louis, right? Did it ever occur to you that Gunnarsson is damaged goods and will be chronically injured for the remainder of his prime? Why the **** do you think Nonis made the trade in the first place? Gunnarsson is a good player but our defense was hurting for a guy like Polak and if you think we're missing Gunnar at all then i have to question your ability to assess the sport of hockey.

Seriously, do you people not ****ing think about things before you say stuff?

You are better then this......Gunnar just is back from surgery and had no training camp to get ready for the season. His ice time is going up as is his usage. He has had some PK time the last 2 games and last night played 17:22 of hockey, he was also on the ice in the last minute of the game protecting a one goal lead. He finished the game with a goal and an assist and a plus 3. Over all he has been on the ice for one goal against and that was in his first game.

I like the Polak trade, but lets not poop on Gunnar to make the trade look better then it was.....we over paid, because we needed a player like Polak!

 

[diceman934]

what would you rather get... 3 average shots on goal... or 1 break away?

and if we're so much better with him on the ice, than why was he a -20 last year?

franson is playing much better this year because he's not making nearly as many stupid mistakes. he's a good player who is able to help the team generate shots on goal... but last year those shots came at the expense of frequent break aways and 2 on 1 chances.

if franson was paired with gardiner or rielly, he would be a disaster.

i think franson looks good because he's playing with phaneuf and we've got a lot of responsible forwards who are covering for him.

i've been a franson hater, but i think he's been doing really well this year. his big problem was his huge blunders and he's not making as many of those. when he's paired with a stay at home defender, he's more effective and less of a liability (that's why he looked good with fraser too).

i'll be interested to see how gunnar does without phaneuf... my guess is not nearly as well.

You should not guess......he is doing very well.

A plus 4 in nine games, only been on the ice for one goal against and that was in his first game. Last night had two points and was a plus 3 and was on the ice in the last minute defending a one goal lead!

 

[LeafSteel]

I am neutral on Franson, I neither like or dislike him. I don't expect perfection from him, or any of our D.

You have to like that he grew up a Leaf's fan but looking at how his contract negotiations have gone, I'm not optimistic this next round will go any better than previous years have gone.

I think all options are open at this point with Franson. If he plays reasonably well, I think the Leafs would like to re-sign him, and are open to a longer term, but if his agent comes in with an unrealistic expectation and Nonis doesn't feel it fits the terms long-term plans, I can see Franson gone at the trade deadline, and earning a decent return from a contending team.

No downside in any of those scenarios. My personal opinion is that unless he agrees to a reasonable annual hit over a 3-5 year term, he'll be traded this season. I don't see anymore 1 or 2 year deals anymore with Franson.

BB

 

[diceman934]

I have always liked Franson and defended him on here many times....

He lead the team in hits and has been our leader in D points the past two seasons.

His skating is what it is. He is a very solid D man who hits and his skating speed makes his errors stand out more. The issue with Franson is the same issue that affects all of our D man.....Carlyle! He constantly is changing pairings. Last Year Franson played with 4 different partners. Real hard to develop chemistry playing with a different partner each night.

His biggest issue as a player is not his skating speed, but standing still with the puck and not moving while looking to make a pass or a play, this allows his opponents to force him into a poor play. This year he was gotten better and is moving his feet more when he first gets the puck.

I say that he is traded at some point this year and his stats are making his value go up, which is good for us!

 

[Ace88*]

You are better then this......Gunnar just is back from surgery and had no training camp to get ready for the season. His ice time is going up as is his usage. He has had some PK time the last 2 games and last night played 17:22 of hockey, he was also on the ice in the last minute of the game protecting a one goal lead. He finished the game with a goal and an assist and a plus 3. Over all he has been on the ice for one goal against and that was in his first game.

I like the Polak trade, but lets not poop on Gunnar to make the trade look better then it was.....we over paid, because we needed a player like Polak!

Im not crapping on Gunnarsson. Im calling it how i see it. I really liked Gunnar in his time here. Considering he had been on our top pairing for several years, i highly doubt management was sitting around and randomly had the bright idea of hey, let's trade our best top pairing option for a guy who's career average is like 16 minutes a game just for the hell of it!

Obviously i don't know what went on in those trade discussions, but it's my feeling that Gunnarsson wouldn't have been traded if management had felt his hip wasn't going to be an ongoing issue.

As for whether or not we overpaid...did we overpay? I dont think so. Polak's been brilliant for us and that 4th we gave is a who-cares pick. Again, the fact that we gave up a pick and retained salary indicates thats management just wanted to get rid of Gunnarsson while they still could and he wasn't known around the league for being the injured hip guy. To say that we got "wrecked" in that trade is so childish and hyperbolic. I'd say the trade was damn well worth it.

 

[thewave]

Cody Franson, the new #1D on the block.

Cody what a beauty.

 

[Morbo]

He'll have to play more than 15 good games to turn things around in my books.

Let's not forget he was gonzo before the season, done deal that fell through.

He's been a turnover machine in the past...and a tough sign on top of it. Every contract negotiation with this guy is far more painful than the calibre of his play deserves.

Looks like we have to keep him until Gardiner and Rielly establish themselves though.

 

[lukeleim]

If Franson keeps it up and you're able to sign him under 4.5 million you keep him and explore trading Phaneuf for assets.

 

[I Believe]

Looking at the contract Niskanen got for 1 good year, can't help but cringe at the thought of Fransons next contract. It's UFA time for our boy Cody.

It's great to see him playing well. Gonna be quite tough to fit him in our cap though. A major move will have to be made if we decide to keep him.

 

[RLF]

I still stand by my assessment of Franson, he's a great 4-5 Dman that can greatly improve any PP. However at 5v5 or situations where he needs to be mobile he's one of the last guys you want out there. Foot speed too slow to win races for the puck and gets walked around all to often off the rush. He will command about $4 mil as a UFA this summer and he will get it but not from us. We are already tight against the cap with meh players such as Clarkson and Lupul on big contracts. We don't need another making $4 mil from a sluggish Dman regardless of how much points he gets on the PP. Plus the back en is so slow right now with Phanuef Polak and Robidas also spinning like tops in there own end.

Although I agree he is a very good 4 and great 5, I disagree with the bolded. On a rush you almost never see Franson get walked around.

 

[RLF]

Cody finally has a steady partner, not a guy who wanders around the ice. It should not be a surprise that his inexperienced partners last year were part of the problem with him looking bad. He looked quite good with a steady defensive guy in Fraser.

The Phaneuf/Franson pairing being fairly solid is no surprise. imo. I wanted this pairing back in training camp as it made the most sense to me. Will they have bad games? Yes. Is Cody slow? Yes, but not that slow for a big man. If people would stop looking for his mistakes and actually watch how many times he makes a nice little pass to move the puck while under pressure deep in his end, it happens WAY more often than the giveaways. Watch how often he pinches to keep plays alive and now that forwards are covering like they are supposed to, if it does get by him, there is no two on ones.

He has also covered Dion more than a few times(including last game) where Dion pinched poorly.

Is he a top pair guy? No. But he is a very solid 2nd pairing guy who can put up points and excel on the PP.

Just like all the Dion supporters say Dion needs the right partner...so do most defenceman including Franson.

 

[Mystifo]

He is playing well as of late. That being said I want to see him do so consistently for at least a half season. Holzer looked good at one point playing with Dion as did Kostka the problem was they could not sustain the play. Also people talking about 4m? Remember that was Franson's asking price after his good season as a 3rd pairing guy and was a RFA. You seriously think he is going to take less than guys like Niskanen or Orpik got?


Franson will ask 5m+ based on his point totals and the fact he is playing top pairing mins.

 

[Einzakin]

Franson is very good at getting the puck to the net, making those simple passes, and has good intelligence with the puck.

But, but. He has incredibly slow footspeed and gets beat quite a bit. I'd like to trade him while he has value, which I very much think he does. That or keep him on the 3rd pairing and allow him to play on the PP

 

[Pyrophorus]

It was sustainable before.

I'm going to go with Mirtle and Alter and trade Phaneuf (not a hater), and maybe get someone else, either a Marlie or a cheaper vet.

Extend the younger and more productive Franson.

 

[Pyrophorus]

I have always liked Franson and defended him on here many times....

He lead the team in hits and has been our leader in D points the past two seasons.

His skating is what it is. He is a very solid D man who hits and his skating speed makes his errors stand out more. The issue with Franson is the same issue that affects all of our D man.....Carlyle! He constantly is changing pairings. Last Year Franson played with 4 different partners. Real hard to develop chemistry playing with a different partner each night.

His biggest issue as a player is not his skating speed, but standing still with the puck and not moving while looking to make a pass or a play, this allows his opponents to force him into a poor play. This year he was gotten better and is moving his feet more when he first gets the puck.

I say that he is traded at some point this year and his stats are making his value go up, which is good for us!

There is a thread on the board, about why the Leafs are not successful. That OP said trading away youth. Agreed.

The other is probably trading away good players...like Franson. How about we keep him?

 

[Daisy Jane]

Looking at the contract Niskanen got for 1 good year, can't help but cringe at the thought of Fransons next contract. It's UFA time for our boy Cody.

It's great to see him playing well. Gonna be quite tough to fit him in our cap though. A major move will have to be made if we decide to keep him.

the UFA class this year is crap. he's a big, physical, RHD powerpoint playing defensemen. seriously - the better he plays is the more you can move him out. i'd rather do it now-ish and have the team adapt without him, vs. waiting until deadline day.

you know he wants money. and if i were his agent i'd be pushing for the market.

 

[RLF]

Franson is very good at getting the puck to the net, making those simple passes, and has good intelligence with the puck.

But, but. He has incredibly slow footspeed and gets beat quite a bit. I'd like to trade him while he has value, which I very much think he does. That or keep him on the 3rd pairing and allow him to play on the PP

I honestly don't think his value has increased that much. He may get a late first or early second at the TD. Maybe a couple picks or decent prospect.

I actually think he would be great in Chicago on the second pair.

Keith Seabrook
Hjarlmasson Franson

That would be a pretty good top 4.

 

[thewave]

Cody is a 1B and should be praised until the time he is traded for a 1st rounder

 

[Hocks95*]

Seriously? You really miss soft old broken-hip Gunnarsson? You do know he's playing 13-14 minutes a night in St Louis, right? Did it ever occur to you that Gunnarsson is damaged goods and will be chronically injured for the remainder of his prime? Why the **** do you think Nonis made the trade in the first place? Gunnarsson is a good player but our defense was hurting for a guy like Polak

All I said was we overpaid. So what he broke his hip once. Big deal. Robidas breaks his leg twice in a year no one bats an eye. Huge double standard. Shattenkirk is finding a new level playing with Gunnarson instead of whoever he was playing with previously. Gunnarsson has been amazing. Are you seriously going to look at his minutes as he's just returning from injury?? really? If you think Gunnarsson is damaged goods then you must absolutely hate Robidas.

I'm not questioning Polak's ability but the fact that we choked a pick and kept some however little of Gunns salary shows how incompetent Nonis truly is. WE should have been the one getting an extra assets.

 

[Ace88*]

All I said was we overpaid. So what he broke his hip once. Big deal. Robidas breaks his leg twice in a year no one bats an eye. Huge double standard. Shattenkirk is finding a new level playing with Gunnarson instead of whoever he was playing with previously. Gunnarsson has been amazing. Are you seriously going to look at his minutes as he's just returning from injury?? really? If you think Gunnarsson is damaged goods then you must absolutely hate Robidas.

I'm not questioning Polak's ability but the fact that we choked a pick and kept some however little of Gunns salary shows how incompetent Nonis truly is. WE should have been the one getting an extra assets.

He hasn't "broken" his hip "once." It's been a chronic injury that's kept him out of the lineup before. Robidas' legs are a completely different issue, bone breaks are not a reoccurring injury like the hip can be (and has been for Gunnar). Gunnarsson hasn't been "amazing" for St Louis since coming back, he's been good but not amazing. Literally every single bit of your post is either gross exaggeration or just plain poor assessment.

 

[Hocks95*]

He hasn't "broken" his hip "once." It's been a chronic injury that's kept him out of the lineup before. Robidas' legs are a completely different issue, bone breaks are not a reoccurring injury like the hip can be (and has been for Gunnar). Gunnarsson hasn't been "amazing" for St Louis since coming back, he's been good but not amazing. Literally every single bit of your post is either gross exaggeration or just plain poor assessment.

and same can be said about yours. You do realize after breaking a bone you loose a lot of mobility regardless of what bone you break?? You do realize Gunnarsson has played 91% of all games over the last 3 seasons?? so much for it being constant. I've actually watched the game and he's been more than good for sure. But keep bashing bashing bashing that's all you seem to be doing right now. I never even said that I don't like Polak but simply Nonis always overpaying shows how incompetent he truly is. Sorry if that made you cry and you had to get all defensive

 

[Hocks95*]

I actually liked the trade. We needed what Polak brings badly. It just pisses me off how it is us that has to choke up extra assets regardless of how minor they are. A swap would have been more than fair. It's just incompetency on management's part, you can't ask so desperate or you always overpay. There's this, there's clarkson, etc.

 

[thewave]

and same can be said about yours. You do realize after breaking a bone you loose a lot of mobility regardless of what bone you break?? You do realize Gunnarsson has played 91% of all games over the last 3 seasons?? so much for it being constant. I've actually watched the game and he's been more than good for sure. But keep bashing bashing bashing that's all you seem to be doing right now. I never even said that I don't like Polak but simply Nonis always overpaying shows how incompetent he truly is. Sorry if that made you cry and you had to get all defensive

Gunner is a much better defender. I don't understand what's hard to understand. You are right we overpaid for Polak. I don't understand why all the tears.

 

[Hocks95*]

anyways here's to getting this thread back on topic. Sorry if your having a rough day and just wanted to rant against me, I have those days too.


Franson ....