Post-Game Talk: Fourteen. Pens/Jets Plus-Minus Thread

[LetangyBarbecue]

+ to Shero "blysma proofing" this lineup

 

[KIRK]

No, what matters is keeping Geno happy, 'cause he might bolt in a year, right?

Because no one where is being a Crosby fanboy. We're talking about creating a balanced roster with 3 real scoring lines where opposing match-ups don't matter because if you try to suffocate Crosby, Iginla burns you. If you try to suffocate Malkin, Neal burns you. If you try to suffocate Brent, Dupu... whatever. If you try to suffocate Glass, we'll give you a pillow.

I've honestly never heard of the "Put all the talent on one line since they are just going to focus on Sid anyhow" philosophy. Although, after hearing Dan talk about the match-up game during the Boston tilt, I guess that makes sense?

We can at least agree on that.

And, let's not confuse what I'm saying. For what now is the umpteenth plus one time (because apparently some people haven't noticed the first umpteen times), I said there isn't a wrong choice here and that I can see the argument either way. If Bylsma thinks Kunitz-Sid-Dupuis will work, then let's see what happens. Maybe they do. Maybe they don't. Maybe they sort of do and Geno really does kill it with Neal and Iggy against second pairings. Maybe, during the experiments, it becomes clear that the adrenaline isn't going to wear off Morrow. Maybe Shero gets another winger so there's nothing for anyone to ***** about.

WTF is so wrong with saying 'let's see how this plays out' and 'there's some logic to Bylsma implying Kunitz-Sid-Dupuis are tearing up the league and imagine what Neal-Geno-Iggy would do to second pairings'.

Now look what you and your brethren have done. I'm defending Bylsma. Somewhere, Oglethorpe is smiling.

 

[ColePens]

One thing about Dupers and Kunitz (that was talked about by the players themselves):

The reason they are one-timing so well is because both guys focused on being ready to shoot at all time. I remember Kunitz having to catch every puck THEN shoot. Now he's ready to deliver at any time.

When Sid does those crazy passes, there is no way anyone is expecting it. His vision is a step ahead of everyone. So now Dupers/Kunitz are just ready to unload. It's really paid dividends.

 

[roready]

Bylsma is a great coach and I'll agree with his decisions based on the fact that they make sense. Iginla is basically by far our 3rd best winger, you can argue that Dupuis is, but Iginla has not been busting his ass this year as he usually would, and he is still on par with Dupes.



KIRK, you cannot deny that rolling into a playoffs with a top 9 that has chemistry and looks like this will not give hell to all oppositions:

Kuni-Sid-Iggy
Dupuis/Morrow-Geno-Neal
Dupuis/Morrow-Sutter-Cooke/Bennett

You can basically interchange Dupuis, Morrow and Bennett for the 2nd line spot

If Iginla plays the way I believe he can, then Iginla will not be our 3rd best winger, he will be our 3rd best player.

 

[KIRK]

you NEVER defer to Bylsma. EVER.

And the difference between last year and this year is that there are actually 4 legitimate top-6 wingers on the team (assuming Morrow can keep this up) and 4 if Morrow can't and they decide to trust Beau Bennett a little.

FYI, I'm in trust but verify mode there.

And, I honestly meant it when I said I don't think you can **** up the where to play Iggy question. The 'what's better' question is another matter, one that won't be settled here and now, but instead one that will be clearer when we see where Dupuis and Morrow are in a month.

That said, I'll repeat one other thing:

I like Kunitz-Sid, Geno-Neal, Sutter-Cooke. Treat Iggy, Morrow, and Duper as rovers. Iggy on L1 or L2 in a game. Morrow on L2 or L3 in a game. Duper on L1 or L3 in a game. See how the game progresses, look at the individual matchups, etc.

****, excuse me, for a moment there, I confused Dan Bylsma with Bob Johnson.

 

[titaniumexpose]

Anyone catch the person with the dancing cutout of Errey? He was on camera talking with a dancing face peeking over the glass. Happened in the 3rd I think. It was hilarious

 

[pensfan71]

One thing about Dupers and Kunitz (that was talked about by the players themselves):

The reason they are one-timing so well is because both guys focused on being ready to shoot at all time. I remember Kunitz having to catch every puck THEN shoot. Now he's ready to deliver at any time.

When Sid does those crazy passes, there is no way anyone is expecting it. His vision is a step ahead of everyone. So now Dupers/Kunitz are just ready to unload. It's really paid dividends.

They've adjusted and that's helped us and them, but don't you think that past playoff records have shown that these two can't exactly perform in the playoffs? Put Iginla next to him, Iggy can think on the same page as Sid, they understand the game the same way, they play the same style, Iginla's crash-bang, scoring touch compliments Sid's dishing game. Keeping Kunitz on that line gives Sid two options to pass to, it's basically the perfect fit on paper. Whether it works or not is to be seen, but more likely it does than not

 

[IcedCapp]

FYI, I'm in trust but verify mode there.

And, I honestly meant it when I said I don't think you can **** up the where to play Iggy question. The 'what's better' question is another matter, one that won't be settled here and now, but instead one that will be clearer when we see where Dupuis and Morrow are in a month.

That said, I'll repeat one other thing:

I like Kunitz-Sid, Geno-Neal, Sutter-Cooke. Treat Iggy, Morrow, and Duper as rovers. Iggy on L1 or L2 in a game. Morrow on L2 or L3 in a game. Duper on L1 or L3 in a game. See how the game progresses, look at the individual matchups, etc.

****, excuse me, for a moment there, I confused Dan Bylsma with Bob Johnson.

I would honestly rather go

Sid - Iggy
Malkin - Neal

and go from there.

That won't work, because you cannot give Sid 2 new players. He just cannot handle it. Not insulting him or whatever, he just needs chemistry more than anything else. But that line WILL need a scorer.

edit: it is NOTTTTTTTTTTTT because I'm a Sid fanboy. I love both of them in their own ways. It is because this fallacy of saying Sid can do it so make him work harder is a recipe for disaster in the playoffs. It's fine to go globetrotters on the Jets in March. It'll be something else entirely on the Canadiens, Bruins, and Devils/Rangers in May/June.

 

[ColePens]

Oh please... I love Dupers, but Iggy is Iggy! That's ridiculous. I can't wait for him to be on that line.

 

[roready]

One thing about Dupers and Kunitz (that was talked about by the players themselves):

The reason they are one-timing so well is because both guys focused on being ready to shoot at all time. I remember Kunitz having to catch every puck THEN shoot. Now he's ready to deliver at any time.

When Sid does those crazy passes, there is no way anyone is expecting it. His vision is a step ahead of everyone. So now Dupers/Kunitz are just ready to unload. It's really paid dividends.

This is absolutely true. It is that way with Malkin as well. He makes passes nobody is expecting, and his anticipation of the play is also very good. I think this might be why it took a while for him and Neal to gel. But once a guy playing with these guys figures it out, it is a beautiful thing to watch!

 

[KIRK]

They've adjusted and that's helped us and them, but don't you think that past playoff records have shown that these two can't exactly perform in the playoffs? Put Iginla next to him, Iggy can think on the same page as Sid, they understand the game the same way, they play the same style, Iginla's crash-bang, scoring touch compliments Sid's dishing game. Keeping Kunitz on that line gives Sid two options to pass to, it's basically the perfect fit on paper. Whether it works or not is to be seen, but more likely it does than not

Do you realize that NOBODY is disagreeing with that? This thing can be argued both ways, and nobody is going to be wrong. Right now, it's a theoretical debate with no right answer. That's all it is. In a month, when we see how all of the experimenting plays out and what Dupuis looks like with the tighter checking and when/if the adrenaline wears off for Morrow, then THAT is when we can argue if what Bylsma is doing is the better choice.

 

[pensfan71]

If Iginla plays the way I believe he can, then Iginla will not be our 3rd best winger, he will be our 3rd best player.

I agree with you whole-heartedly

 

[pensfan71]

Do you realize that NOBODY is disagreeing with that? This thing can be argued both ways, and nobody is going to be wrong. Right now, it's a theoretical debate with no right answer. That's all it is. In a month, when we see how all of the experimenting plays out and what Dupuis looks like with the tighter checking and when/if the adrenaline wears off for Morrow, then THAT is when we can argue if what Bylsma is doing is the better choice.

I'm agreeing with your theory on Dupuis in a month, but if Morrow is starting on that 2nd line over Iginla, there are some serious questions for Bylsma's judgement...

 

[Waffle Fries]

We all have our opinions on what the most effective lines would be. But right now I just have to laugh because we truly are the most spoiled fan base ever.

The Pens are on a 14 game week streak and may have just played their most inspired game of hockey all year. And here we are debating over where a future Hall of Fame winger will fit in our lineup.

 

[TheStinger]

I understand that we don't really want to break up functioning lines but let's remember that one of Dupers goals tonight was on a PK unit with Glass, so he can function alright with other (ahem) players. You don't make Mario Andretti drive in the support races because the guy in the car now has been finishing well in the Top 10. I want the best guy out there and that is Iginla.

 

[KIRK]

I would honestly rather go

Sid - Iggy
Malkin - Neal

and go from there.

That won't work, because you cannot give Sid 2 new players. He just cannot handle it. Not insulting him or whatever, he just needs chemistry more than anything else. But that line WILL need a scorer.

edit: it is NOTTTTTTTTTTTT because I'm a Sid fanboy. I love both of them in their own ways. It is because this fallacy of saying Sid can do it so make him work harder is a recipe for disaster in the playoffs. It's fine to go globetrotters on the Jets in March. It'll be something else entirely on the Canadiens, Bruins, and Devils/Rangers in May/June.

You do realize that wasn't directed at you.

As for your combos, I've got no problem with that either. I'm not married to any position in this theoretical debate because I want to see how it actually plays out over the next month, through all of the experimenting and everything else, before deciding whether I agree with what Bylsma eventually settles upon . . . if he even settles upon anything, because I wouldn't put past him, as someone said, seeing Sid on L1, Geno and Neal on L2, Sutter and Cooke on L3, and then using Iggy and Kunitz on L1 or L2, Duper on L1, L2, or L3, and Morrow on L2 or L3 depending upon the situation, the opponent, etc. in a series or even a game.

 

[66-30-33]

Oh please... I love Dupers, but Iggy is Iggy! That's ridiculous. I can't wait for him to be on that line.

That's what i'm thinking. Dupuis is fine, but this is Jarome Iginla. Still can't believe Dupuis is on pace for 40 goals...wtf?

 

[IcedCapp]

We all have our opinions on what the most effective lines would be. But right now I just have to laugh because we truly are the most spoiled fan base ever.

The Pens are on a 14 game week streak and may have just played their most inspired game of hockey all year. And here we are debating over where a future Hall of Fame winger will fit in our lineup.

I don't really care about the win streak. I know Bylsma will, because that's how athletes are. I don't blame him, but I would be doing as many things as possible to "screw it up." Not lose on purpose, but I'd be experimenting with different combos up and down the lineup as much as possible in as many real situations as possible.

 

[Sypher04]

Do you realize that NOBODY is disagreeing with that? This thing can be argued both ways, and nobody is going to be wrong. Right now, it's a theoretical debate with no right answer. That's all it is. In a month, when we see how all of the experimenting plays out and what Dupuis looks like with the tighter checking and when/if the adrenaline wears off for Morrow, then THAT is when we can argue if what Bylsma is doing is the better choice.

Unfortunately, by that point we MAY have wasted the remainder of the season, which could've been used for Iggy and Sid to try and gel before the playoffs. IMO, Dupuis' shortcoming as a 1st line linemate for Sid are more prevalent in the playoffs.

In either case, definitely looking for Sid to get his time with Iginla sooner than later.

 

[KIRK]

I'm agreeing with your theory on Dupuis in a month, but if Morrow is starting on that 2nd line over Iginla, there are some serious questions for Bylsma's judgement...

Yes . . . I don't see that, though. Not even Bylsma is that dumb . . . I think.

I really do see a lot of experimenting over the next month. All I'm saying is that there isn't necessarily a wrong answer on whether Iggy goes L1 or L2 in theory, so let's see how it plays out before deciding that this is a 'sky is falling' situation like Glass starting no matter how many forwards Shero acquires.

 

[Sypher04]

You do realize that wasn't directed at you.

As for your combos, I've got no problem with that either. I'm not married to any position in this theoretical debate because I want to see how it actually plays out over the next month, through all of the experimenting and everything else, before deciding whether I agree with what Bylsma eventually settles upon . . . if he even settles upon anything, because I wouldn't put past him, as someone said, seeing Sid on L1, Geno and Neal on L2, Sutter and Cooke on L3, and then using Iggy and Kunitz on L1 or L2, Duper on L1, L2, or L3, and Morrow on L2 or L3 depending upon the situation, the opponent, etc. in a series or even a game.

I personally feel it's important for the team to have set lines. Obviouly, Bylsma can mix it up mid game if things are working that night, but I think making three guys a line instead of rovers instills more of a sense of responsibility to the other players on the line.

 

[KIRK]

Unfortunately, by that point we MAY have wasted the remainder of the season, which could've been used for Iggy and Sid to try and gel before the playoffs. IMO, Dupuis' shortcoming as a 1st line linemate for Sid are more prevalent in the playoffs.

In either case, definitely looking for Sid to get his time with Iginla sooner than later.

Who says Bylsma is only going to do one thing for a month or even within a week or a game or a period? I'm in favor of experimenting to close out the regular season, especially in those games against the likely playoff teams you know will give you tighter checking games as the regular season winds down. I just want to see how it all looks with all the pieces on the board and being used in different combinations before deciding what's the better way to go.

I personally feel it's important for the team to have set lines. Obviouly, Bylsma can mix it up mid game if things are working that night, but I think making three guys a line instead of rovers instills more of a sense of responsibility to the other players on the line.

Another philosophical debate. Nothing wrong with that. Believe it or not, we can agree to disagree without assuming there's some ulterior motive for believing something.

 

[pensfan71]

Yes . . . I don't see that, though. Not even Bylsma is that dumb . . . I think.

I really do see a lot of experimenting over the next month. All I'm saying is that there isn't necessarily a wrong answer on whether Iggy goes L1 or L2 in theory, so let's see how it plays out before deciding that this is a 'sky is falling' situation like Glass starting no matter how many forwards Shero acquires.

That's what I thought before the series vs Philly

I just want the lines sorted out at aleast 5-6 games before playoffs start so that whoever's playing with who can finally gel

 

[Sypher04]

Yes . . . I don't see that, though. Not even Bylsma is that dumb . . . I think.

I really do see a lot of experimenting over the next month. All I'm saying is that there isn't necessarily a wrong answer on whether Iggy goes L1 or L2 in theory, so let's see how it plays out before deciding that this is a 'sky is falling' situation like Glass starting no matter how many forwards Shero acquires.

Glass in Dupuis' spot?

 

[Waffle Fries]

I don't really care about the win streak. I know Bylsma will, because that's how athletes are. I don't blame him, but I would be doing as many things as possible to "screw it up." Not lose on purpose, but I'd be experimenting with different combos up and down the lineup as much as possible in as many real situations as possible.

I got the impression from him this morning that experimenting with combos is exactly what he's going to do. We shall see. I would like to see Kunitz-Crosby-Iggy happen but I'm excited to see what the team looks like no matter where he ends up.