Line Combos: Forward line-up: what would you do?

Discussion in 'Winnipeg Jets' started by GNP, Oct 10, 2018.

  1. GNP

    GNP Here Comes the Jets -look out hockey world !!!

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    We have 4 lines right now, and only 2 look solid and established. The 1 st line of Scheiffle, Wheeler, and Connor are great, and can dominate play, and score goals, and are good defensively. The 3rd line of Lowry, Tanev and Copp are more of a defensive shut down line, and add some offense as well. I would think nobody would would to change these 2 lines but maybe we should to create 3 -4 solid scoring lines.

    Problems- Our 2nd line with Little, Laine, and Ehlers doesn't seem to be clicking. Firstly Little looks like he can't keep up, and is behind the play a lot. He's looking more like a 3rd line center. Maybe his contract could turn out to be a mistake, maybe a bad one ?? I think he'll be a good 3rd line center though.

    Laine - is "one dimensional"- and has a rifle shot, and he's a great scorer. Problems with Laine, is he's an unreliable puck handler and often gives the puck away. He cannot drive his own line, and needs guys to feed him to set up his shot. He also is not good at winning any board battles. His speed is getting better, and his weight loss has helped this a lot, but in my mind he's very one dimensional, and needs to play with a talented playmaker, and Littlle doesn't seem to be the answer.

    Ehlers -- he's very good, fast, and has a great shot. He's not good at board battles or digging out the puck, but he's more of a white collar player, and can do other things to compensate. He can use his speed for zone entries, but usually Laine and Little are far behind. Ehler's also has a great shot, to go along with his speed, and is quite a bit more versatile than Laine. It may be, the answer is to move Roslovic up to center these 2 young guys, and we'd have to be patient, as they will make mistakes.

    Note -- Both Ehlers, and Laine are not good in our defensive end, whereas Little is. This is a problem. Right now, everything is sort of screwed up.

    Possible solutions :

    1)
    Move Wheeler down to center the Line of Ehlers and Laine. Wheeler played center last year when Scheiffle was out, and he looks good and competent as a center. This would add experience to the young 2nd line and this may be a real good fit . You could then move Perrault up to play with Scheiffle and Kyle Connor, and I still think they'd be a great scoring line. The addition of Wheeler to this newly formed 2nd line would help settle this line down, and I think you'd see way more scoring from it. Considering Wheeler was one of the top assist men in the NHL last year, is "proof" he's a good playmaker, this he'd be a great center.

    You'd then move Little down to center a 3rd or 4th line between Roslovic, and someone like Dano, or Lemieux. I think this kind of idea is where the answer lies. Right now we'll do OK with the way we're playing, but really we are limited to just 2 solid dependable lines -- being the 1st line ( C,S, W) and the 3rd ( C,L,T) Right now our real 3rd line is Copp, Lowryand Tanev. If Roslovic was moved to a new 4 th line--he would center Dano and maybe Little-- lot's of options here.

    This is just one idea that I've had and thought of quite a bit, to balance out our talent base, and optimize the scoring ability of our hockey club. You could even try moving Copp, or Tanev up to that 1st line, and put Connor on the 2nd line.There are many things you can do.

    I think it would be interesting to see what fellow posters think of this ?? --do we just go along with what we have, or do we shake things up to better the hockey club ?? Can we win the Stanley Cup with the way we're running our lines right now ?? I do wonder about that, although we'd still be a good team.

    I'd like to see some suggestions from fellow posters on how we can get that 2nd line going ?? It may mean trading a valuable piece like Ehlers for a talented young centerman, or trading one of our defenseman for a centerman. I don't like the idea of trading, as I think the talent is here, and is developing, but that 2nd line needs to be adjusted in my opinion.

    What do you all think ?? --am I the only one who thinks like this -- write down your suggestions, and how you think we can improve the 2nd line, and get better results from the hockey club.
     
  2. Se829ne

    Se829ne Jets #29 force multiplier

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    Switch Wheeler and Connor with Laine and Ehlers and equalize 1st and 2nd line TOI. Zamzara!

    Laine should always play PP when reasonably possible (for apparent reasons I won't go to now...lol).
     
  3. Skidooboy

    Skidooboy Registered User

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    Any decision that includes "Break up one of the best top lines in the NHL" is folly and not worth considering. ESP if it includes moving one of the best RW's in the NHL (look it up! #26 over the last 5 years has been a BEAST in that position) to Centre.

    that's Video game GM talk not a serious hockey discussion.

    1. I think best option is to put Roslovic in between Laine and Ehlers. and put little down with Perrault and Vess. shuffle ice time of those two lines depending on zone of play and score. Done.

    Roslo is looking more and more legit each game.
     
  4. Joe Hallenback

    Joe Hallenback Registered User

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    Considering they are NHL players for the most part I would probably just let it go and see if they can fix the "problem" themselves. I think Little's line has been ok and I mean they moved Ehlers up already so they are trying to do something.

    Its pretty obvious at home the Jets and PoMo have a plan. For the most part it worked last night. Because the Kings tossed Kopitar's line out every other shift we just countered that with Schief's line all night and it worked. Lowry's line took care of Carter's and we won.

    Also I mean this is the team that put up 114 points last year so blowing it up after 3 games seems kind of panic button to me. Trading Ehlers for a "young" center seems dumb to me. We already have a young center in Roslovic.

    I get that people want to win games by scoring 8 goals but doing that generally means you are giving up a lot in return. I rather win games 2-1 because that is the type of game that wins you Stanley cups
     
  5. ffh

    ffh Registered User

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    If scheifele played with Laine and Ehlers they would get about the same time as little with them. Little is trusted but Laine and Ehlers are not . Putting sheifele between ehlers and laine won't accomplish anything but cutting scheifele's minutes way down. Roslovic on that line means they would get even less minutes then they normally get.
     
  6. GNP

    GNP Here Comes the Jets -look out hockey world !!!

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    _________________________________________________________

    I did not suggest putting Scheilele between Laine and Ehlers- I suggested putting Wheeler between them. I would leave Schelifele where he is right now.
     
  7. Se829ne

    Se829ne Jets #29 force multiplier

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    Once upon time in a dark autumn night at the hockey front of the northern prairie...

    General Maurice (when studying his charts): 'Captain Wheeler here immediately!' *Adjutant goes*
    ...
    Captain Wheeler: 'Hey Boss, you had something to say, right?'
    General Maurice: 'Indeed. We're making some adjustments to our lines. I need you to go rally our 2nd line, Lieutenant Little needs some moral boost and I cannot really trust anybody else now. It's your duty anyway, Captain Wheeler.'
    Captain Wheeler: 'Roger that. No problems. I can see myself what's your plan General!'
    General Maurice: 'Good. Good. Our young core-wingers need some testing. They're going too lazy without responsibility there. 2nd line's section of the front has been unnecessarily dormant a quite a while already. You can fix it. Take Private First Class Connor with you when you go, and send Gunnery Sergeant Laine, and Lance Corporal Ehlers to the 1st unit.'
    Captain Wheeler: 'Understood! General!' *Captain goes*
    ...
    General Maurice (to nameless adjutant): 'You'll see. Both lines will be fixed only because these rearrangements force all participants to take their roles more seriously. It's common knowledge in the military spheres, and we're Airforce sponsored team anyway. We must try these kind things. Military theoreticians call it "Leadership", and I think it's good to try introduce such novelty to our detachments too.'
    Adjutant: *nods*

    ....
     
  8. Trinity

    Trinity Registered User

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    Trade Little for Stastny.
     
  9. probablywrongbut

    probablywrongbut Registered User

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    Do Tanev and Lowry have more points and goals than Ehlers? Not many times in the future you'll be able to say that.
     
  10. sipowicz

    sipowicz The Original

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    This Little is trusted narrative is getting old, watching Little try to keep up with the play, getting beat off pucks, create squat offensively and then watch him try to keep up when the play comes back the other way is getting old. Little is no longer near 2C quality and the Jets already knew it last season. Wouldn't surprise me if we see Roslo is Little's spot very soon.

    E L L never worked last season but they clicked when it was ESL but hey it's Maurice, let's go back to ELL and prove once again that the line doesn't work!

    PS loved Little with Ladd and Wheeler in the first couple Jets seasons but clearly the downward spiral of his career is clearly evident and has been for a few years!
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2018
  11. Howard Chuck

    Howard Chuck Registered User Sponsor

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    In my mind we have an abundance of talent, an embarrassment almost. It just needs to be optimized.
     
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  12. ffh

    ffh Registered User

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    Why would the Jets want scheifele to play 13 minutes a game. Getting minutes in the NHL is simple. The more the coach trusts you the more you play. He trusts little to play 18 minutes a game but not his wingers. He wants scheifele to play 20 minutes a game that means no chance in hell will ehlers and Laine be his linemates. I think the Jets are quite happy at least at home having the little line matched up against other teams 3rd lines.
     
  13. GNP

    GNP Here Comes the Jets -look out hockey world !!!

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    ________________________________________________________

    Very good post here Sip, and I agree. It's becoming very apparent that Little cannot keep up the pace on that 2nd line. I think the answer will be one of 2 ways to rectify this problem.

    1) Insert Roslovic to center the 2nd line ( he has the speed) -
    OR
    2) Move Wheeler down from the 1st line to center the 2nd line.

    We're certainly not in panic mode, as we'll have a great team as it is--it's just disappointing top see the 2nd line performing "below" its potential.
     
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  14. Jack722

    Jack722 Registered User

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    Roslo looks awesome, no argument there.

    But do we have any proof that CSW is one of the best top lines in the NHL? Just wondering.


    I personally think that CSW is excellent but would be worth breaking up if it meant more great lines.
     
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  15. jepjepjoo

    jepjepjoo Registered User

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    17-18 5v5

    Wheeler 14g 41pts
    Connor 18g 39pts
    Ehlers 17g 38pts
    Laine 22g 35pts
    Scheifele 10g 34pts
    Little 11g 26pts

    P/60 5v5

    Connor 2.23
    Scheifele 2.22
    Ehlers 2.09
    Wheeler 2.08
    Laine 2.00
    Little 1.49

    P1/60 5v5

    Scheifele 1.83
    Ehlers 1.76
    Laine 1.66
    Connor 1.66
    Wheeler 1.42
    Little 1.15

    GF/GA 5v5

    Laine 57GF 39GA +18
    Scheifele 48GF 35GA +13
    Wheeler 57GF 45GA +12
    Connor 50GF 42GA +8
    Ehlers 52GF 46GA +6
    Little 38GF 41GA -3

    Considering the situation Laine and Ehlers were/are in they compared quite nicely to "one of the best lines in hockey"
     
  16. Se829ne

    Se829ne Jets #29 force multiplier

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    On General Maurice's charts everything seems to be carved to the stone tablet, and when changes happen they are either forced (due injuries) or made too late. He reject past experiences even he is surely aware of statistical facts considering Laine-Little-Ehlers lineup.

    Maurice can play 4th line with 20 minutes if he wants, no needs to stick to the particular name or numbering of a line now. Captain Wheeler could very well take few minutes of TOI of the 1st line to the 2nd line with him, and it would only fix an another minor issue. ;)

    My point here is ultimately that, General Maurice needs some flexibility, and deeper psychological touch to his team. These things can be only tested in practice, at best, voluntarily.

    He and everyone else would then see does these kind rearrangements work or not. I think Scheifele wouldn't panic in his loneliness or feel deep agony if grouped with Laine and Ehlers (whom both I assume are key parts of the future Winnipeg Jets). At least HFJets would save gazillion comments and myrdillion threads if actual practical reality would either verify or falsify some assumptions, beaten repeatedly dead.
     
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  17. Jack722

    Jack722 Registered User

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    They're definitely one of the most played lines in hockey.
     
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  18. Neuf

    Neuf Give 'em 5 like Patrik Laine

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    Toss a European centre between Nik and Pate?

    Watching ELL shows how hard Schiefele must have worked to make ESL so good. I'm glad he has Wheeler.

    Wouldn't risk 27/28/29 right now. Maybe preseason like everyone expected to see. I don't think Roslovic is ready for that role.

    Little is good enough for a 2C. Wish we didn't need a 1C for Laine and Ehlers
     
  19. YWGinYYZ

    YWGinYYZ RIP Fugu

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    Honest question (as I haven't checked myself): have you considered or looked at the QoC stats for those two lines?
     
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  20. LowLefty

    LowLefty Panglossian Sponsor

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    Do you think they don't?
    Would looking at their point totals from last year help you?
    How about so far this year?

    Sign me up for looking at other line options but what is this supposed to mean?
    Surely you can come up with a better reason to break up the line
     
  21. Mony Vibescu

    Mony Vibescu Fictional book character

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    Copp is no playmaking genius but he seemed to get 27 and 29 going. So did Stastny. Since we don’t have Stastny then just switch Copp and Little. Little can replace Copp in Lowry line since he is ”trusted by PoMo” or how was it?
     
  22. Howard Chuck

    Howard Chuck Registered User Sponsor

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    For the record I like Little and I'm not much of a stats person, but Garret said that Little has regressed to a below average 2c. I hope I'm not putting words into his mouth with this, but it's what I remember from a couple of days ago.

    My solution is simple, but the execution of it may not be. We all know that we have a lot of incredible talent on the team. If the coaches can't figure out how they match up, or if they simply don't, then I'm sure that we have the pieces to move in a trade for something that we need. It might mean parting with a player we don't want to, but if it makes the team better overall, then so be it.
     
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  23. surixon

    surixon Registered User

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    He performed as that last year but I am not sure it is safe to say that is what he is or at least not yet.

    One of the major issues with that line is that they are largely deployed with Myers and Morrow as their defense Pairing. Is it any real surprise Little is down low a lot with that pairing in their end? Myers has been a tire fire defensively and is sub par at transitioning the puck. Morrow is so so defensively and is ok at transitioning the puck.

    The ELL line is at its best off the rush but is playing with our worst pairing from a transition perspective as well as a defensive standpoint. While Laine and Ehlers can still use some work in their end they aren't playing with a pairing that can really help them out. For instance I doubt Wheeler and Conner are any better defensively but generally have a better pairing to jump start the offense.

    Laine and Ehlers do have to become more multifaceted in the ozone though but Laine was doing a lot of good in that regard the first few games.
     
  24. Gm0ney

    Gm0ney Unicorns salient

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    In terms of QoC TOI (from Corsica):
    Scheifele: 29.78
    Wheeler: 29.67
    Connor: 29.45
    Stastny: 29.28 (STL/WPG combined)
    Ehlers: 29.11
    Laine: 29:00
    Little: 28.95

    For QoC CF%:
    Scheifele: 50.31
    Wheeler: 50.09
    Stastny: 50.07 (STL/WPG combined)
    Tanev: 50.04
    Lowry: 49.94
    Connor: 49.92
    Ehlers: 49.91
    Little: 49.86
    Laine: 49.82

    The CSW got slightly tougher matchups than ELL last season.
     
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  25. Se829ne

    Se829ne Jets #29 force multiplier

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    Exactly. The issue is just that. Jets are so damn stacked that it seems to be okey to waste enormous offensive potential of Ehlers-Laine to essentially defensive duties. Best shooter of the team hanging down low to back up defensive 2C who back up "untrusted" d-men meanwhile the fastest guy of the team try make o-zone entries and what not... alone.

    It doesn't simply connect. For anyone.
     
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