Line Combos: Forward line-up: what would you do?

jepjepjoo

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Dec 31, 2002
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Honest question (as I haven't checked myself): have you considered or looked at the QoC stats for those two lines?

Those are individual stats not as a line.

TOI % qoc (26.83-30.08)

Scheifele 29.78
Wheeler 29.67
Connor 29.45
Ehlers 29.11
Laine 29.00
Little 28.95
Perreault 28.69
Lowry 28.54

CF% qoc (47.38-51.92)
Scheifele 50.31
Wheeler 50.09
Tanev 50.04
Lowry 49.94
Connor 49.92
Ehlers 49.91
Little 49.86
Laine 49.82
Copp 49.81
 

YWGinYYZ

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In terms of QoC TOI (from Corsica):
Scheifele: 29.78
Wheeler: 29.67
Connor: 29.45
Stastny: 29.28 (STL/WPG combined)
Ehlers: 29.11
Laine: 29:00
Little: 28.95

For QoC CF%:
Scheifele: 50.31
Wheeler: 50.09
Stastny: 50.07 (STL/WPG combined)
Tanev: 50.04
Lowry: 49.94
Connor: 49.92
Ehlers: 49.91
Little: 49.86
Laine: 49.82

The CSW got slightly tougher matchups than ELL last season.

Those are individual stats not as a line.

TOI % qoc (26.83-30.08)

Scheifele 29.78
Wheeler 29.67
Connor 29.45
Ehlers 29.11
Laine 29.00
Little 28.95
Perreault 28.69
Lowry 28.54

CF% qoc (47.38-51.92)
Scheifele 50.31
Wheeler 50.09
Tanev 50.04
Lowry 49.94
Connor 49.92
Ehlers 49.91
Little 49.86
Laine 49.82
Copp 49.81

Thanks! On a phone and being lazy: that makes the stats posted pretty close/comparable, as they were garnered under similar conditions. I figured both lines saw reasonably close QoC, enough to make the raw scoring stats very directly comparable. If we were to fix the 2nd line problems, I'd try one of the following:

Try Roslovic between Ehlers and Laine
Try Perreault - Roslo - Laine
Shift Wheeler down to the 2nd line, and Laine up

So:

CSW
PRL

or:

CSL
ELW

Wheels and Little might find their old chemistry. Personally, I'd push Little down further, and create a defensively responsible but offensively capable 4th line, and push Roslo into the top 6.
 
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Jack722

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Mar 3, 2018
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Do you think they don't?
Would looking at their point totals from last year help you?
How about so far this year?

Sign me up for looking at other line options but what is this supposed to mean?
Surely you can come up with a better reason to break up the line


All I'm asking for is proof for what many seem to assume is true. It might be true, it might not. I'm not saying it's a "reason to break up the line" but it's not a reason to keep them together unless it's actually true.

I don't think point totals say much of anything. Wheeler got a huge number of his on the power play.
 

jepjepjoo

Registered User
Dec 31, 2002
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Do you think they don't?
Would looking at their point totals from last year help you?
How about so far this year?

Sign me up for looking at other line options but what is this supposed to mean?
Surely you can come up with a better reason to break up the line

They were lower than the previous year... Whats your point?

5v5 16-17

Scheifele 17g 51pts
Ehlers 16g 44pts
Laine 21g 39pts

Wheeler 15g 37pts
Little 12g 26pts

5v5 P/60 16-17

Scheifele 2.51
Ehlers 2.29
Laine 2.27
Little 2.02

Wheeler 1.87

5v5 17-18

Wheeler 14g 41pts
Connor 18g 39pts
Ehlers 17g 38pts
Laine 22g 35pts
Scheifele 10g 34pts
Little 11g 26pts

P/60 5v5 17-18

Connor 2.23
Scheifele 2.22
Ehlers 2.09
Wheeler 2.08
Laine 2.00
Little 1.49
 

Howard Chuck

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Thanks! On a phone and being lazy: that makes the stats posted pretty close/comparable, as they were garnered under similar conditions. I figured both lines saw reasonably close QoC, enough to make the raw scoring stats very directly comparable. If we were to fix the 2nd line problems, I'd try one of the following:

Try Roslovic between Ehlers and Laine
Try Perreault - Roslo - Laine
Shift Wheeler down to the 2nd line, and Laine up

So:

CSW
PRL

or:

CSL
ELW

Wheels and Little might find their old chemistry. Personally, I'd push Little down further, and create a defensively responsible but offensively capable 4th line, and push Roslo into the top 6.

I like every one of your suggestions. I wish we would have taken advantage of the preseason to try it out, but that is water under the bridge.

I would also be ok trading a couple of top young players for a really good match for 2c. Creating a great 2nd line with the assets we have should be well within the realm of possibilities, whether through current players or trade.

Just imagine a 2nd line as good as our current first line and then the Lowry line. Unstoppable. :thumbu: I just hope it gets worked out.
 

Flair Hay

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Get a really good 2nd line center that can help cover for two young guys defensively and also not hold them back offensively.

I mean we saw what we needed already haha.

All the line juggling in the world isnt going to make up for the fact that we only have one Mark Scheifele and four top line calibre wingers.
 

YWGinYYZ

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Jul 3, 2011
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Get a really good 2nd line center that can help cover for two young guys defensively and also not hold them back offensively.

I mean we saw what we needed already haha.

All the line juggling in the world isnt going to make up for the fact that we only have one Mark Scheifele and four top line calibre wingers.

I think Roslovic could be that guy, but there would more than likely be some teething issues with defense for that line as they found their way, plus the problem of no cycle game / weak puck retrieval. Most of the offense would come off the rush. Exciting, but perhaps not the best way to ensure your line is not outscored?
 

Skidooboy

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this is insane. since the 2011-2012 season wheeler has scored 481 points in 537 games placing him 10th in the league over that time span. ninth on the list from 2014-2015 7th from 2016/17. 7th from the start of last season....



HE DESERVES TO PLAY WITH OUR #1 CENTRE on our top line.

and our #1 C deserves to play with Wheeler. Period. who goes with them? the player who fits in the best. the players think it's KC the coach thinks it's KC clearly the results speak for themselves.

Monkeying with that line because our 2nd line is only gonna score 65-80 goals this year, after coming off a great season and playoffs....is....... I don't even have words to describe how utterly stupid that idea is!
 
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Howard Chuck

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I think Roslovic could be that guy, but there would more than likely be some teething issues with defense for that line as they found their way, plus the problem of no cycle game / weak puck retrieval. Most of the offense would come off the rush. Exciting, but perhaps not the best way to ensure your line is not outscored?
I think a lot of us feel the same way about Roslovic, and understand that the fix wouldn't be immediate if it happened at all. I truly believe that having Roslovic playing sheltered minutes at 4C is to prepare him for a move up to 2C this year. I don't know how long to expect for that, as it probably will be determined by his play at 4C, but I believe that this is the plan.

I would love to see Connor and Roslovic together as they are pure magic together, but that involves the 1st line, and we know how that goes :)
 
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YWGinYYZ

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I think a lot of us feel the same way about Roslovic, and understand that the fix wouldn't be immediate if it happened at all. I truly believe that having Roslovic playing sheltered minutes at 4C is to prepare him for a move up to 2C this year. I don't know how long to expect for that, as it probably will be determined by his play at 4C, but I believe that this is the plan.

I would love to see Connor and Roslovic together as they are pure magic together, but that involves the 1st line, and we know how that goes :)

I'd agree about Roslo's usage - I think he's got the speed, smarts and offensive upside to make the eventual move to 2C.

I just wish Ehlers had more of a cycle and puck retrieval game - it would help that 2nd line immensely. Being a zone entry monster is great, but if he could add one more arrow to his quiver, he'd be the 2nd line's equivalent to Connor.
 

snowkiddin

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Connor-Scheifele-Laine
Perreault-Little-Wheeler
Copp-Lowry-Tanev
Ehlers-Roslovic-Lemieux/Petan/Dano/Vesa
 

CaptainChef

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I get that people want to win games by scoring 8 goals but doing that generally means you are giving up a lot in return. I rather win games 2-1 because that is the type of game that wins you Stanley cups
On the other hand, you're not going to win many Stanley Cups if you can only trust two lines, and you overplay these two lines whenever you're in a close game. That & overplaying your # 1 goalie, or your top D pairing(s) might get you 100+ points (providing all stay realtively healthy) but it won't get you deep into the playoffs. Last year, Statsny made a huge difference, allowing the second line to be trustworthy. Without that we're pooched.
 
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jepjepjoo

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this is insane. since the 2011-2012 season wheeler has scored 481 points in 537 games placing him 10th in the league over that time span. ninth on the list from 2014-2015 7th from 2016/17. 7th from the start of last season....



HE DESERVES TO PLAY WITH OUR #1 CENTRE on our top line.

and our #1 C deserves to play with Wheeler. Period. who goes with them? the player who fits in the best. the players think it's KC the coach thinks it's KC clearly the results speak for themselves.

Monkeying with that line because our 2nd line is only gonna score 65-80 goals this year, after coming off a great season and playoffs....is....... I don't even have words to describe how utterly stupid that idea is!

Laine scored 80 goals in his 18&19 year seasons combined and was second only to Ovechkin in goals scored.

Scheifele scored at a better rate with Laine than he did with Connor/Wheeler.
 
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surixon

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I'd agree about Roslo's usage - I think he's got the speed, smarts and offensive upside to make the eventual move to 2C.

I just wish Ehlers had more of a cycle and puck retrieval game - it would help that 2nd line immensely. Being a zone entry monster is great, but if he could add one more arrow to his quiver, he'd be the 2nd line's equivalent to Connor.

Along with that the second line has a habit of not attacking as a unit at the blue line which also hurts their ability to retrieve pucks. The top line as well as the third line attack and support each other really well. We don't have either of those elements yet with the 2nd.
 

TheJadePipe

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Mar 8, 2016
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Ehlers - Chef - Wheels
Conner - Roslo - Laine
Parreault - Little - Vesa
Tanev - Lowery - Copp
 

Joe Hallenback

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On the other hand, you're not going to win many Stanley Cups if you can only trust two lines, and you overplay these two lines whenever you're in a close game. That & overplaying your # 1 goalie, or your top D pairing(s) might get you 100+ points (providing all stay realtively healthy) but it won't get you deep into the playoffs. Last year, Statsny made a huge difference, allowing the second line to be trustworthy. Without that we're pooched.

You have to understand that sometimes young players can grow. What we are hoping for is that our young players grow.

We are hardly pooched. That is just hyperbole
 
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CaptainChef

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This Little is trusted narrative is getting old, watching Little try to keep up with the play, getting beat off pucks, create squat offensively and then watch him try to keep up when the play comes back the other way is getting old. Little is no longer near 2C quality and the Jets already knew it last season. Wouldn't surprise me if we see Roslo is Little's spot very soon.

E L L never worked last season but they clicked when it was ESL but hey it's Maurice, let's go back to ELL and prove once again that the line doesn't work!

PS loved Little with Ladd and Wheeler in the first couple Jets seasons but clearly the downward spiral of his career is clearly evident and has been for a few years!
Yep, and its so bad that Wheeler doesn't want anything to do with playing with Little either. I think that's the main reason why PMo won't even experiment with any Little-Wheeler combos anymore.
 
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CaptainChef

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He performed as that last year but I am not sure it is safe to say that is what he is or at least not yet.

One of the major issues with that line is that they are largely deployed with Myers and Morrow as their defense Pairing. Is it any real surprise Little is down low a lot with that pairing in their end? Myers has been a tire fire defensively and is sub par at transitioning the puck. Morrow is so so defensively and is ok at transitioning the puck.

The ELL line is at its best off the rush but is playing with our worst pairing from a transition perspective as well as a defensive standpoint. While Laine and Ehlers can still use some work in their end they aren't playing with a pairing that can really help them out. For instance I doubt Wheeler and Conner are any better defensively but generally have a better pairing to jump start the offense.

Laine and Ehlers do have to become more multifaceted in the ozone though but Laine was doing a lot of good in that regard the first few games.
If that is indeed the case, then its perfectly understandable why E-L-L would spend so much time hemmed up in their own end. A simple change in D pairings would certainly make a big difference but again, everything is focussed on making sure they have the right pairing out there when the Scheif or Lowry lines are out there. As usual, the problem seems to be inflexibility & a reluctance to experiment with certain changes.
 
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Howard Chuck

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I'd agree about Roslo's usage - I think he's got the speed, smarts and offensive upside to make the eventual move to 2C.

I just wish Ehlers had more of a cycle and puck retrieval game - it would help that 2nd line immensely. Being a zone entry monster is great, but if he could add one more arrow to his quiver, he'd be the 2nd line's equivalent to Connor.

This is something that I've commented on over the summer as well..... if Ehlers or his linemates could figure out what to do once he enters the O zone, we would be miles ahead of where we are. Ehlers is almost unparalleled in the league for gaining the zone like he does, but most of the time it's wasted effort. I would think by now they would have had meetings to say "Ok 2nd line, once Nik starts heading to the O zone, skate your butt off to get there shortly after and get open.... Nik, pass to the open guy".

Lol, something like that.
 
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Flair Hay

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I think Roslovic could be that guy, but there would more than likely be some teething issues with defense for that line as they found their way, plus the problem of no cycle game / weak puck retrieval. Most of the offense would come off the rush. Exciting, but perhaps not the best way to ensure your line is not outscored?

Not a good idea to try and win that way in the post-season. Roslovic has a long way to go defensively before we can rely on him in a top six playoff role... maybe he can get there by April. I hope so.
 
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Adam da bomb

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Not a good idea to try and win that way in the post-season. Roslovic has a long way to go defensively before we can rely on him in a top six playoff role... maybe he can get there by April. I hope so.
Luckily its regular season so you can try things out now that you don't want to have to try out in Post.
 

YWGinYYZ

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Luckily its regular season so you can try things out now that you don't want to have to try out in Post.

A 2-1 game isn't the time to start experimenting though.

Honestly, I think LA's line deployment makes yesterday's game a bit of an outlier - I can't see Nashville (for instance) running two lines so hard.
 

Adam da bomb

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A 2-1 game isn't the time to start experimenting though.

Honestly, I think LA's line deployment makes yesterday's game a bit of an outlier - I can't see Nashville (for instance) running two lines so hard.
No? Maybe I'm probably wrong but if it costs you one game vs a long term solution well at this point we have games to spare.
 

YWGinYYZ

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No? Maybe I'm probably wrong but if it costs you one game vs a long term solution well at this point we have games to spare.

6 points in 5 games. That's what it takes to make the playoffs, and it's a hard line to stay above. There are no free games, either at the beginning or end of the season.

A 4 or 5 goal pad in the 3rd period? Sure: experiment away. Just MO.
 

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