Former Ducks, 2019-20

[bsu]

I've literally seen every NHL game Theo has ever played. What about what I said isn't true? Schmidt and Mcnabb are the matchup pair. Theo does not PK at all. When Schmidt is off like he was in G2 the Knights have big problems keeping the puck out of their net. Theo is 100% an elite offensive d-man and has great gap control, but he's as soft as they come in the d-zone especially along the boards.

So is Fowler lol. He's literally baby shit soft.

 

[The Duck Knight]

So is Fowler lol. He's literally baby shit soft.

Totally your opinion which you've stated on here a million times. Little odd though that you rail on Fowler for his supposed softness constantly, but stan Theo at every opportunity. I personally think Theo is softer, but either way it doesn't define either his or Fowler's game.

I'm a huge fan of both. I just think it's ridiculous that Theo is even being mentioned as a potential Norris candidate.

 

[Magnus the Duck]

Theo is 100% an elite offensive d-man and has great gap control, but he's as soft as they come in the d-zone especially along the boards.

Well Fowler is also soft in the d-zone. I'd say Fowler is slightly ahead defensively but Theodore is overall better right now.

 

[Anaheim4ever]

I don't see Theodore ever winning a Norris trophy, especially because of Makar, Hughes and Heiskenen. We also don't know how good Byram will be.
But leading Vegas in points during the playoffs should make him a contender for the Conn Smythe if Vegas wins the cup.
Heavily Sheltered or not leading ur team in playoff points as a young Dman is not a easy thing.

 

[Paul4587]

So is Fowler lol. He's literally baby shit soft.

Theodore makes Fowler look like Pronger. Fowler makes the occasional hit and has even fought before. Theodore avoids contact like the plague.

 

[Paul4587]

I don't see Theodore ever winning a Norris trophy, especially because of Makar, Hughes and Heiskenen. We also don't know how good Byram will be.
But leading Vegas in points during the playoffs should make him a contender for the Conn Smythe if Vegas wins the cup.
Heavily Sheltered or not leading ur team in playoff points as a young Dman is not a easy thing.

How many Smythe winning dmen don’t play at all on the PK and start 60% of their shifts in the offensive zone, playing against opposition second and third lines? I would have to think Stone is the clear front runner for Vegas right now. Lehner will get attention too due to the shutouts but ultimately he hasn’t had that high of a workload.

 

[Anaheim4ever]

How many Smythe winning dmen don’t play at all on the PK and start 60% of their shifts in the offensive zone, playing against opposition second and third lines? I would have to think Stone is the clear front runner for Vegas right now. Lehner will get attention too due to the shutouts but ultimately he hasn’t had that high of a workload.

True. I do wonder if they lose one of Stone or Theodore to an injury, which one they'd miss more.
With Theodore out they'd have to play Schmidt in nearly all the offensive zone starts as he's the only other Dman with offensive skill on their team.
and other players will have to take over alot more defensive shifts thus exposing their defense more as well as making Schmidt play 29 minutes a game instead of the 23 he does right now.
With Stone out they would be missing him alot but they got plenty of forwards who could step up in the playoffs. Such as if Karlsson or Pacioretty go on a scoring streak.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Totally your opinion which you've stated on here a million times. Little odd though that you rail on Fowler for his supposed softness constantly, but stan Theo at every opportunity. I personally think Theo is softer, but either way it doesn't define either his or Fowler's game.

I'm a huge fan of both. I just think it's ridiculous that Theo is even being mentioned as a potential Norris candidate.

I’d take Theodore over Fowler every day of week, but none are winning a Norris

 

[Kalv]

Etem is coaching.

Color of Hockey: Etem eager to start next phase of career

 

[Terry Yake]

has theodore's defensive game improved at all? he was pretty terrible defensively with the ducks

but yeah, he's already better than fowler offensively for sure. would swap them in a heartbeat. if only the organization hadn't forced fowler to become an "all-around" d-man

 

[HanSolo]

has theodore's defensive game improved at all? he was pretty terrible defensively with the ducks

but yeah, he's already better than fowler offensively for sure. would swap them in a heartbeat. if only the organization hadn't forced fowler to become an "all-around" d-man

He wouldn't be my first choice to defend a 1 goal lead but he's gotten better. More of his utility is in how well he can exit the zone. He does it better than anyone on the blueline and that's before you get into his stretch pass consistency. His work along the boards isn't great but his positioning and stick work has gotten a lot better. I trust him at both ends of the ice. These playoffs, imo he's been Vegas' best skater. He's driving the play more than anyone on the team, Stone included.

 

[duxfan1101]

He wouldn't be my first choice to defend a 1 goal lead but he's gotten better. More of his utility is in how well he can exit the zone. He does it better than anyone on the blueline and that's before you get into his stretch pass consistency. His work along the boards isn't great but his positioning and stick work has gotten a lot better. I trust him at both ends of the ice. These playoffs, imo he's been Vegas' best skater. He's driving the play more than anyone on the team, Stone included.

What I've noticed with Theo is that he uses a very long stick, which he uses well to get into shooting lanes and to keep forwards to the outside. However, I think that has also become a crutch for him. He relies on his reach too much, and when that doesn't work, he doesn't have much else to defend with, considering he doesn't use his body well from my viewings.

 

[Static]

Theo has definitely evolved to the point that even if the trade was done to preserve Manson and vatanen it was a monumental mistake in scouting to let him go. I have always been understanding about why Bob did it, but Theo is inarguably better than both players he was traded to protect. That's a huge internal mistake from management. What makes it worse is the rumor that Carlyle had a big part in that scouting assessment.

 

[Static]

It's funny how good we are at finding talent, but either don't trust the initial opinion or can't develop the talent properly. I don't know which is worse.

 

[HanSolo]

What I've noticed with Theo is that he uses a very long stick, which he uses well to get into shooting lanes and to keep forwards to the outside. However, I think that has also become a crutch for him. He relies on his reach too much, and when that doesn't work, he doesn't have much else to defend with, considering he doesn't use his body well from my viewings.

I never felt offensive defensemen need to play an overly physical game in their own zone. Would I like it if he didn't shy from contact? Of course. But his positioning, skating, and stick use has improved enough that I don't worry about Shea being a liability in his own zone much at all. Is he the best option for defense? No. But he's not as bad as some in this thread are painting either.

 

[Anaheim4ever]

It's funny how good we are at finding talent, but either don't trust the initial opinion or can't develop the talent properly. I don't know which is worse.

Makes me wonder what if the Ducks didn't have an old fashioned Carlyle as Coach when Cam Fowler was a rookie and didn't make him learn a 2 way game after his sophmore slump.
Cam showed flashes of absolute brilliance in his rookie season when he was in the offensive zone.
Fowler could have then turned into a consistent 45 to 55 point OFD and the Ducks have ability to shelter him if they wanted to, Lindholm/Manson get the tough matchups anyways.
Carlyle ruined alot of players development. I'm guessing Carlyle's scouting on Theodore was 'he's too soft' and liked Montour more because he's less soft.

 

[Anaheim4ever]

He wouldn't be my first choice to defend a 1 goal lead but he's gotten better. More of his utility is in how well he can exit the zone. He does it better than anyone on the blueline and that's before you get into his stretch pass consistency. His work along the boards isn't great but his positioning and stick work has gotten a lot better. I trust him at both ends of the ice. These playoffs, imo he's been Vegas' best skater. He's driving the play more than anyone on the team, Stone included.

Thats confirms what i thought. Another way i look at it in terms of Theodore vs Stone is Vegas would be able to handle a injury to Stone better than it would Theodore because there is a ton of good forwards on Vegas that could all play even harder and step up for the team.
With Theodore out it would mean Schmidt gets jumped up to top offensive zone shifts and maintain some of his tough matchups thus pushing his ice time to 28 minutes a night. Then that means some of Vegas other more defensive minded Dmen with lesser offensive skills would see increased ice time and the 3rd Dmen pairing would be playing some more tougher matchups and overall the defense would be more taxed and exposed as well as Schmidt being tired out more and a downgrade offensively vs Theodore.

 

[Paul4587]

Makes me wonder what if the Ducks didn't have an old fashioned Carlyle as Coach when Cam Fowler was a rookie and didn't make him learn a 2 way game after his sophmore slump.
Cam showed flashes of absolute brilliance in his rookie season when he was in the offensive zone.
Fowler could have then turned into a consistent 45 to 55 point OFD and the Ducks have ability to shelter him if they wanted to, Lindholm/Manson get the tough matchups anyways.
Carlyle ruined alot of players development. I'm guessing Carlyle's scouting on Theodore was 'he's too soft' and liked Montour more because he's less soft.

BB was coaching throughout the majority of Fowlers development, not Carlyle. Fowler always had the green light to jump into the play during his rookie year, Carlyle was a flawed coach but he didn’t try and hold Cam back or change the way he played.

Many dmen ended up having career years under Carlyle in fact. Randy’s defensive system was highly questionable but offensively speaking a lot of players had great numbers under him. There seems to be a myth that he hindered offensive performance when the evidence suggests otherwise.

 

[McDonald19]

So is Fowler lol. He's literally baby shit soft.

Fowler is a bit more willing to initiate contact than Theo. Theo is as soft as it gets.

 

[Deuce22]

Fowler is a bit more willing to initiate contact than Theo. Theo is as soft as it gets.

If I had a player scoring at the rate he is in the playoffs, I wouldn't want him hitting anyone. He's playing like an elite scoring forward, from the back end. Fowler the same, Ducks have other D that can hit and enforce.

 

[McDonald19]

If I had a player scoring at the rate he is in the playoffs, I wouldn't want him hitting anyone. He's playing like an elite scoring forward, from the back end. Fowler the same, Ducks have other D that can hit and enforce.

It’s not so much enforcing, it’s clearing the front of the net for your goalie and bumping smaller forwards off the puck instead of poking with your stick.

 

[bsu]

Fowler isn't clearing anyone out from the net. Cmon get real. Everyone on here can easily picture when someone scores right in front and the face Fowler makes Everytime, it's fine to downplay theodore defensively but let's overrated Fowler especially physically in front of the net. It's not a huge difference in front of the net they are both really bad. There is a reason Fowler is NEVER out there in the last minute with a 1 goal lead, every coach we have ever had even put 3rd pairing defensemen in over Fowler when the faceoff is in our zone.

 

[Deuce22]

Fowler isn't clearing anyone out from the net. Cmon get real. Everyone on here can easily picture when someone scores right in front and the face Fowler makes Everytime, it's fine to downplay theodore defensively but let's overrated Fowler especially physically in front of the net. It's not a huge difference in front of the net they are both really bad. There is a reason Fowler is NEVER out there in the last minute with a 1 goal lead, every coach we have ever had even put 3rd pairing defensemen in over Fowler when the faceoff is in our zone.

I think the narrative that since Fowler was better than Theodore three years ago, Bob could gift Theo to Vegas it what is driving a lot of this. Even though Theodore is doing things in the playoffs that Fowler could only dream of, some here think he'd still be stuck behind Cam if a Duck. So the defensive nitpicking begins.

 

[bsu]

I think the narrative that since Fowler was better than Theodore three years ago, Bob could gift Theo to Vegas it what is driving a lot of this. Even though Theodore is doing things in the playoffs that Fowler could only dream of, some here think he'd still be stuck behind Cam if a Duck. So the defensive nitpicking begins.

Yeah I can see the argument he wouldn't have developed the same way, but acting like Fowler does anything in front of the net is laughable.

 

[70sSanO]

If it wasn’t Vegas, Theodore would have been offered up to someone else. And it isn’t just the Ducks. A lot of teams see players a certain way and unless they have a really great breakout year, that view persists.

Vegas just happened to be very good at preying on other teams and not getting sucked into a lot of long bad contracts. James Neal is a great example by letting him walk. Tatar is another. They don’t seem to have the pressure to hold on to players just to convince people they didn’t make a bad move.

John