Former Canucks: Players & Management - Part 2 (The Ben Hutton Sweepstakes are over)

[VanJack]

Todd Bertuzzi was the man, he will always be one of my fav Canucks.

Canucks really don't have anyone like Todd Bertuzzi in their lineup.

I can virtually guarantee that some third-line knuckle dragger will take a run at Hughes or Pettersson, and deliver a devastating head-shot. And when either of these players misses half a season in concussion protocol, you'll see some of these anti-Bertuzzi posters baying at the moon and demanding retribution.

You can almost book it. Last year Matheson body-slams Pettersson to the ice in frustration after he made him look follow foolish, and the Canuck bench reacted like department store mannequins.

Pettersson and Hughes are on their own out there.....better keep their heads on a swivel.

 

[F A N]

To sentence #1 I say "I highly doubt it" (but you never know with Canuck fans) and to the last sentence I can only say "Are you serious?"...

Why do you highly doubt it? With zero traffic, Whistler to Rogers Arena is like 50 minutes drive longer than Point Roberts to Rogers Arena and unless you're always commuting in the middle of the night, there will be traffic. Have you ever driven to Whistler and back? And ya I'm pretty serious about the possibility of being in a foul mood if I have to commute long distances to work every day. There's quite a bit of psychology studies and articles on this topic. But hey, maybe Torts is the type to find long drives and being stuck in traffic calming as it gives him time to think.

 

[F A N]

Bertuzzi. I understand that nobody on that team wanted to talk about this when there was a lawsuit going on, but for some reason, most seem to have forgotten the context and the environment surrounding that game. My recollection was that the media and fans were chewing the team out for lack of response during the game when Naslund went down from the Moore hit. The talk before the game was about exacting vengeance. You know how the team was asked about Matheson in the next game after he body slammed Petey? It was much more than that against Colorado.

 

[EpochLink]

Prior to that hit, Bertuzzi was not having a great year.
Pretty much a down year for him after the previous 2.
That hit pretty much sunk the 03/04 season, losing to Calgary in the first round was a punch in the gut.

 

[mathonwy]

Kassian was a massive alcoholic with a tumultuous personal life who got kicked off of two teams. Without documentary evidence of some kind or statements from the people involved, it's obviously not possible to make assumptions about which of his ups and downs were due to circumstances, coaching, injury, or his own demons. I think you probably realize this.

Nucksmisconduct's autopsy on Kassian's 13-14 season.

Fact: WD was an asshole coach that played favorites.

Fact: WD pissed off all of the veterans because of the ice time games he was playing.

Fact: I saw firsthand the BS Willie was pulling on Kass and I saw how frustrated and disconnected Kass became from this very unfair and assholeish treatment. Go look up my posts during that time if you want.

Fact: WD didn't give Kass a fair shake AT ALL. He wrote Kass off almost immediately and benched him haphazardly without rhyme or reason which confused the crap outta Kass and pissed me off something fiercely. Vancouver Canucks winger Zack Kassian befuddled by latest benching

Fact: Torts gave Kass a honest shake and in return Kass gave Torts an honest effort.

Inference: Considering the type of emotional wear-his-heart-on-his-sleeve "toolsy" type of person Kass is, it really isn't much of a stretch to infer that Kass going off the rails in his personal life just MIGHT be connected to Kass being treated unfairly by the god of his world and that's WD.

Yeah god is a strong word but I really don't see Kass having much else going on in his life at that point of time aside from his work and ya know.. there is that whole no dad thing....

I saw a player that was trying hard and I saw a coach that was crapping on that player for no apparent reason other than because he could.

 

[AwesomeInTheory]

Yeah, let's just conveniently ignore that these issues predated both Willie and Kassian's arrival to Vancouver and is one of the reasons why he was bounced from Buffalo.

 

[AwesomeInTheory]

Also, Bertuzzi was an overly emotional man-child who let his emotions get the better of him repeatedly.

Notable incidents include him having a tantrum in midget, punching out Jeff O'Neill (who was his teammate), getting suspended 15 games for kicking an opponent while on Guelph, punching a linesman while an Islander and leaving the bench and getting suspended 10 games, as well as his penchant for taking stupid, retaliatory penalties.

The "Free Bertuzzi" rally was probably the low mark for me as a Canucks fan.

Also, people like to forget that the Moore incident happened two games after the Naslund hit and that Cooke had already fought Moore earlier in the game. Bertuzzi was just throwing a tantrum in a blowout game and any arguments about 'protecting his teammate' come off as really insincere when you look at his pattern of well documented behavior going back years.

 

[F A N]

Also, people like to forget that the Moore incident happened two games after the Naslund hit and that Cooke had already fought Moore earlier in the game. Bertuzzi was just throwing a tantrum in a blowout game and any arguments about 'protecting his teammate' come off as really insincere when you look at his pattern of well documented behavior going back years.

Read my post above. Also, don't forget that Cooke lost the fight and Naslund was Bertuzzi's best friend on the team. It wasn't just "his linemate."

As for Bertuzzi's emotions, that was perfectly acceptable to even being desired in the era he came from. "Don't poke the bear" was a more commonly used expression back in the day.

 

[AwesomeInTheory]

Read my post above. Also, don't forget that Cooke lost the fight and Naslund was Bertuzzi's best friend on the team. It wasn't just "his linemate."

As for Bertuzzi's emotions, that was perfectly acceptable to even being desired in the era he came from. "Don't poke the bear" was a more commonly used expression back in the day.

"The talk before the game was about exacting vengeance"

Yeah, and nothing happened in the game immediately following the Naslund hit.

Who gives a shit if Cooke won or lost? If the goal was to exact vengeance (something Naslund himself spoke out against) then why have Cooke be the one to make Moore 'answer the bell'? Why did it take until near the end of a game whose conclusion was foregone before Bertuzzi decided to do a damn thing for his bestest friend in the world?

If Bertuzzi was truly as 'heart on his sleeve' as people make him out to be, he'd have gone after Moore immediately following the hit, not sit on his hands in a close, divisional game (ie, the game immediately after the Moore hit.)

He was an unthinking imbecile who let his emotions get the better of him.

Taking costly penalties/criminal charges/court cases was never seen as 'acceptable' or 'desired.'

I'm sure Burke was happy as all hell when Bertuzzi mouthed off to the Wild in that playoff series, to bring up yet another boneheaded move he made.

 

[F A N]

"The talk before the game was about exacting vengeance"

Yeah, and nothing happened in the game immediately following the Naslund hit.

Umm... that's why I talked about the context surrounding that game? It's this type of criticism that likely made the players feel the need to exact revenge.

Who gives a **** if Cooke won or lost? If the goal was to exact vengeance (something Naslund himself spoke out against) then why have Cooke be the one to make Moore 'answer the bell'? Why did it take until near the end of a game whose conclusion was foregone before Bertuzzi decided to do a damn thing for his bestest friend in the world?

Did you actually watch that game or old enough to know what happened at the time?

If Bertuzzi was truly as 'heart on his sleeve' as people make him out to be, he'd have gone after Moore immediately following the hit, not sit on his hands in a close, divisional game (ie, the game immediately after the Moore hit.)

Huh?

He was an unthinking imbecile who let his emotions get the better of him.

Taking costly penalties/criminal charges/court cases was never seen as 'acceptable' or 'desired.'

I'm sure Burke was happy as all hell when Bertuzzi mouthed off to the Wild in that playoff series, to bring up yet another boneheaded move he made.

Why don't you name one other NHL on ice incident that caused this type of career ending injury and penalties/charges.

I'm pretty sure Burke didn't care about Bertuzzi mouthing off any other team's players.

 

[Zippgunn]

"The talk before the game was about exacting vengeance"

Yeah, and nothing happened in the game immediately following the Naslund hit.

Who gives a **** if Cooke won or lost? If the goal was to exact vengeance (something Naslund himself spoke out against) then why have Cooke be the one to make Moore 'answer the bell'? Why did it take until near the end of a game whose conclusion was foregone before Bertuzzi decided to do a damn thing for his bestest friend in the world?

If Bertuzzi was truly as 'heart on his sleeve' as people make him out to be, he'd have gone after Moore immediately following the hit, not sit on his hands in a close, divisional game (ie, the game immediately after the Moore hit.)

He was an unthinking imbecile who let his emotions get the better of him.

Taking costly penalties/criminal charges/court cases was never seen as 'acceptable' or 'desired.'

I'm sure Burke was happy as all hell when Bertuzzi mouthed off to the Wild in that playoff series, to bring up yet another boneheaded move he made.

Did Naslund actually call out against exacting vengeance? I don't remember that. Also bear in mind that Bettman was concerned enough about the threats being made against Moore that he personally attended the rematch between the Avs and Canucks where, predictably, nobody did anything, partly because the game was a close one and partly because the Canucks lacked the courage of their convictions with the big boss man watching them.

 

[Zippgunn]

Nucksmisconduct's autopsy on Kassian's 13-14 season.

Fact: WD was an ******* coach that played favorites.

Fact: WD pissed off all of the veterans because of the ice time games he was playing.

Fact: I saw firsthand the BS Willie was pulling on Kass and I saw how frustrated and disconnected Kass became from this very unfair and *******ish treatment. Go look up my posts during that time if you want.

Fact: WD didn't give Kass a fair shake AT ALL. He wrote Kass off almost immediately and benched him haphazardly without rhyme or reason which confused the crap outta Kass and pissed me off something fiercely. Vancouver Canucks winger Zack Kassian befuddled by latest benching

Fact: Torts gave Kass a honest shake and in return Kass gave Torts an honest effort.

Inference: Considering the type of emotional wear-his-heart-on-his-sleeve "toolsy" type of person Kass is, it really isn't much of a stretch to infer that Kass going off the rails in his personal life just MIGHT be connected to Kass being treated unfairly by the god of his world and that's WD.

Yeah god is a strong word but I really don't see Kass having much else going on in his life at that point of time aside from his work and ya know.. there is that whole no dad thing....

I saw a player that was trying hard and I saw a coach that was crapping on that player for no apparent reason other than because he could.

Ah so it`s Willie D.`s fault that Kassian was an alcoholic. This place just gets better and better...

 

[Jay Cee]

The only thing Bertuzzi did wrong was not straightening out Moore sooner. And Moore never took a run at any star players again

 

[4Twenty]

Anyone who doesn’t celebrate the 10 game suspension for leaving the bench to fight a goon (Scott Parker) who was trying to fight a star player (Jovo) in an act of protection doesn’t get it.

That galvanized that team. And Bertuzzi put up 45 goals and 90 points in 72 games which was probably a more dominant season than Henrik or Daniel’s Hart seasons.

I can remember freaking out at the tv about Parker going after Jovo and loved Bert even more for leaving the bench. Bet his teammates felt the same way.

 

[mathonwy]

Ah so it`s Willie D.`s fault that Kassian was an alcoholic. This place just gets better and better...

You said it, I didn't.

Now I'm 100% certain you didn't watch Canucks hockey back then.

If you didn't watch Canucks hockey back then, don't you think it's a bit dishonest to post like you did?

I do.

 

[4Twenty]

You said it, I didn't.

Now I'm 100% certain you didn't watch Canucks hockey back then.

If you didn't watch Canucks hockey back then, don't you think it's a bit dishonest to post like you did?

I do.

I think getting inconsistent coaching on the ice during games as a punishment for transgressions outside of the game and not for mistakes on the ice is a not a good way to discipline a player. Not saying that is what happened.

But I’m fully on board with the idea willie can’t develop young players at the NHL level. And the comparison between him and Torts with regards to Kassian developing is night and day.

Agree with you on that for sure.

 

[RandV]

Bertuzzi. I understand that nobody on that team wanted to talk about this when there was a lawsuit going on, but for some reason, most seem to have forgotten the context and the environment surrounding that game. My recollection was that the media and fans were chewing the team out for lack of response during the game when Naslund went down from the Moore hit. The talk before the game was about exacting vengeance. You know how the team was asked about Matheson in the next game after he body slammed Petey? It was much more than that against Colorado.

Yeah this was the ultimate hypocrisy of the whole situation. It's not every body of course but whenever a scrub takes a run at and takes out a star player every fanbase is going to have a good percentage of fans demanding blood and calling for the offender to leave the ice on a stretcher. Bertuzzi delivered, it went viral and became the shame of the league with everyone piling on Bertuzzi and Vancouver.

Did anything actually change though? Not in the slightest. The shit show died down, the league moved onto the playoffs, and everyone was back to business as usual. I can recall Calgary fans who bitched endless about Bertuzzi suggesting San Jose player Alex Korolyuk should be taken off the ice in a stretch because he shot the puck after the whistle. Can't remember who but I believe there was even a locker room 'threat' thrown out by a team player shortly after, exact same thing that helped villainize Bertuzzi, and I don't think the league even did anything beyond maybe a small slap on the wrist.

 

[EpochLink]

The "Free Bertuzzi" rally was probably the low mark for me as a Canucks fan

I remember that!
I’m like damn, this is where we are.

 

[bandwagonesque]

Nucksmisconduct's autopsy on Kassian's 13-14 season.

Fact: WD was an ******* coach that played favorites.

Fact: WD pissed off all of the veterans because of the ice time games he was playing.

Fact: I saw firsthand the BS Willie was pulling on Kass and I saw how frustrated and disconnected Kass became from this very unfair and *******ish treatment. Go look up my posts during that time if you want.

Fact: WD didn't give Kass a fair shake AT ALL. He wrote Kass off almost immediately and benched him haphazardly without rhyme or reason which confused the crap outta Kass and pissed me off something fiercely. Vancouver Canucks winger Zack Kassian befuddled by latest benching

Fact: Torts gave Kass a honest shake and in return Kass gave Torts an honest effort.

Inference: Considering the type of emotional wear-his-heart-on-his-sleeve "toolsy" type of person Kass is, it really isn't much of a stretch to infer that Kass going off the rails in his personal life just MIGHT be connected to Kass being treated unfairly by the god of his world and that's WD.

Yeah god is a strong word but I really don't see Kass having much else going on in his life at that point of time aside from his work and ya know.. there is that whole no dad thing....

I saw a player that was trying hard and I saw a coach that was crapping on that player for no apparent reason other than because he could.

I'm not sure you understand what facts are.

 

[Hit the post]

Did anything actually change though? Not in the slightest. The **** show died down, the league moved onto the playoffs, and everyone was back to business as usual. I can recall Calgary fans who *****ed endless about Bertuzzi suggesting San Jose player Alex Korolyuk should be taken off the ice in a stretch because he shot the puck after the whistle. Can't remember who but I believe there was even a locker room 'threat' thrown out by a team player shortly after, exact same thing that helped villainize Bertuzzi, and I don't think the league even did anything beyond maybe a small slap on the wrist.

**** Flames fans and especially when Bob Hartley was their coach.

A real piece of **** when he put out essentially five goons on their opening lineup against us. Unfortunately Torts took the bait and went nuts but you can at least understand why he went postal.

 

[bandwagonesque]

Yeah this was the ultimate hypocrisy of the whole situation. It's not every body of course but whenever a scrub takes a run at and takes out a star player every fanbase is going to have a good percentage of fans demanding blood and calling for the offender to leave the ice on a stretcher. Bertuzzi delivered, it went viral and became the shame of the league with everyone piling on Bertuzzi and Vancouver.

Did anything actually change though? Not in the slightest. The **** show died down, the league moved onto the playoffs, and everyone was back to business as usual. I can recall Calgary fans who *****ed endless about Bertuzzi suggesting San Jose player Alex Korolyuk should be taken off the ice in a stretch because he shot the puck after the whistle. Can't remember who but I believe there was even a locker room 'threat' thrown out by a team player shortly after, exact same thing that helped villainize Bertuzzi, and I don't think the league even did anything beyond maybe a small slap on the wrist.

The situation boils down to Bertuzzi swinging at Moore's head from behind, and to some extent on whether he could have avoided falling directly on him when the play died. It was reckless and the consequences were terrible, but I don't think the man is evil or should be pushed out of the league.

 

[mathonwy]

I'm not sure you understand what facts are.

So what are you gonna do about it?

You gonna let me run my mouth or are you gonna put me in my place?

 

[bandwagonesque]

So what are you gonna do about it?

You gonna let me run my mouth or are you gonna put me in my place?

I'm going to make assumptions about you that I believe are probably accurate but which I won't bother mentioning here.

 

[M2Beezy]

Watching the Oilers Rangers game is hilarious to watch the Wrong Granlund and how bad he is at reading plays. The Oilers come in on a 3-2 rush Granlund has the puck and enters the zone and freezes at the blue line. Then takes a low risk soft floater toward the net that the Ranger goalie grabs and the whistle is blown.

Man o man do i not miss those missed oppurtunities that the Wrong Granlund was famous for. Just zero hockey instinct in the offensive zone

 

[mathonwy]

I think getting inconsistent coaching on the ice during games as a punishment for transgressions outside of the game and not for mistakes on the ice is a not a good way to discipline a player. Not saying that is what happened.

But I’m fully on board with the idea willie can’t develop young players at the NHL level. And the comparison between him and Torts with regards to Kassian developing is night and day.

Agree with you on that for sure.

I interpret events based on own personal life experiences and this is my interpretation of the Kassian stuff. I’ve personally been exactly where Kass was and let me tell you, if I weren’t allergic to alcohol, I would have been drinking tubs of the stuff just to stop the hopeless crappy feeling that’s with you everyday because your boss is a jack hole.

Bottom line though is this is just one of the many examples of the toxic culture the Aquilinis have wrought upon our team.