For a Few Dollars More (CBA & Lockout Discussion)- Part VI

[Lobotomizer*]

I was just responding to Lady Stanley picking on my choice of words which were admittedly imperfect. I said I would be happy as an owner to go to 50/50 if the owners were making 57/43 if the 'league was profitable' and she chose not to go with the spirit of what I intended. So I qualified as much as I could in response.

I agree - this s**tfest will end up at 50/50. Too bad that both sides will spend their time worrying about how they look to the public, not realizing that the majority of fans think both groups are a bunch of greedy schmucks.

 

[ps241]

Fair enough. But tell ya what, someone tells me we cant afford to pay you "X" because fundamentally though your playing in Vancouver or Chicago and they can afford it, you have to be willing to take a cut AND give up Arbitration etc because our business is unsustainable without it... meanwhile the numbers provided? Totally bogus. How would that make you feel? Im serious. Wouldnt you just be a "tad" upset?

I thought I had read that the players have access to the financials of the teams and had audited about half the teams in the league and the PA weren't denying there are financial challenges it's just they have a different viewpoint on solutions to said problems?

 

[Lobotomizer*]

I thought I had read that the players have access to the financials of the teams and had audited about half the teams in the league and the PA weren't denying there are financial challenges it's just they have a different viewpoint on solutions to said problems?

nope. NHLPA has a totally different view of the HRR than the NHL.

 

[mossey3535]

Fair enough. But tell ya what, someone tells me we cant afford to pay you "X" because fundamentally though your playing in Vancouver or Chicago and they can afford it, you have to be willing to take a cut AND give up Arbitration etc because our business is unsustainable without it... meanwhile the numbers provided? Totally bogus. How would that make you feel? Im serious. Wouldnt you just be a "tad" upset?

And yet those financials were perfectly fine over the entire length of the last CBA when it came to divying up the PA's share of the pie, and good enough to invoke every optional escalator they were entitled to?

 

[ps241]

I agree - this s**tfest will end up at 50/50. Too bad that both sides will spend their time worrying about how they look to the public, not realizing that the majority of fans think both groups are a bunch of greedy schmucks.

I can get behind this post. Both sides are being disingenuous when they pander to the fans. I would prefer they just told it like it was........we the (insert players or owners) put ourselves above all else and the rest is window dressing. Not only that we are both too tone def to figure out why the fans might not care to listen to the sad story we are selling.

 

[ps241]

nope. NHLPA has a totally different view of the HRR than the NHL.

I appologize my post must of been a tad murky, I wasn't addressing the two sides differing viewpoints on HRR I was addressing the two sides differing viewpoints on revenue sharing and or other solutions to solve the financial issues of have not teams?

 

[DuklaNation]

but think about EVERYTHING that had changed... Hockey became a minimal contact sport... While still tough, parity was established, fighting kept down to a minimum... Salary cap allowed all teams to equally compete... We had NEW HOCKEY... it was different, it wasn't like the old. It was revitalized, refreshed, given a makeover, a renovation...

All of that is already in place... I'm not saying there won't be a spike in revenues in the first few months it starts up... of course there will.... But at this point what else is there left to do? The sport is as competitive and balanced as it can possibly be at this point.

The game is boring these days compared to 20+ yrs ago. Soccer on ice. There is a lot to do still to improve the entertainment value in this sport.

 

[Nalens Oga]

This lockout has nothing to do with the style of hockey that will result after the lockout - this is all about revenue. So did the lockout in 2004.

It is about revenue but a more offensive minded style of hockey after the previous lockout though it was short lived was not a coincidence. We're now in dead puck era 2.0, scoring levels for both the regular season and playoffs have dropped to the lowest since pre-lockout 1. The argument was that there was still more offense and not as much holding or obstruction as the last time but these playoffs sorta changed that where refs were letting more and more fly (and playoff scoring fell to 4.8 gpg).

Let's say there was no lockout atm and we had games beginning right now....the competition committee or whomever has done 0 to increase the offense. And the only reason they did it the last time was because they had the time to under the lockout and the NHL wanted to come back with a stronger product (they have the time to even if there isn't a lockout but people on cushy jobs don't go always go the extra mile).

For a league that spends so much time whining about costs, they seem to do very little about actually growing revenue whether that be making games more offensive (people like seeing records set or goals being score) or putting the game on a channel that people actually receive (that European deal with some obscure provider is terrible). And they brag about salaries growing to 3 B+, if they'd done a decent job then this sport should've been near the NBA.

Basically the chances of positive rule changes happening are a lot higher if the season is cancelled compared to the situation where things were normal because the NHL hasn't done or at least not disclosed anything about rule changes like changing the offside line during a PP or changing the way that penalties are called.

 

[Killion]

I thought I had read that the players have access to the financials of the teams and had audited about half the teams in the league and the PA weren't denying there are financial challenges it's just they have a different viewpoint on solutions to said problems?

... Soft Cell.

And yet those financials were perfectly fine over the entire length of the last CBA when it came to divying up the PA's share of the pie, and good enough to invoke every optional escalator they were entitled to?

... Hard Cell. Fact is, aint no one in the PA "buying" individual franchise nor "puported" league wide revenues. They read the same papers, read comments from Bettman & Fehr as you & I, the former "imaginative", the latter "mercenary". So ya sit, doing what exactly if you got a mind? Move to Europe, and dont come back.

 

[LadyStanley]

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/NHL/Winnipeg/2012/10/10/20273526.html?cid=rsssportsslam! hockey

Jets Jokinen thinks season is toast.

 

[Crows*]

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/NHL/Winnipeg/2012/10/10/20273526.html?cid=rsssportsslam! hockey

Jets Jokinen thinks season is toast.

That headline is really misleading. All he says is that he is preparing like there will be no hockey and they to not get hopes up because you could get let down.

 

[Bills09]

so are there scheduled talks for tomorrow?
If so what are the topics? still health and safety.

Also I dont mind that they are meeting about the lesser topics, so that once they finally reach the magic HRR number, everything else will fall into place very very quickly.

 

[MasterDecoy]

The league gave the PA thousands upon thousands of pages of financials a while back. Are you saying those are all falsified?

that's been the standard pro PA talking point for a while now. it's like believing the moon landings were staged somewhere in nevada

 

[Confucius]

I used to run a 24 hour restaurant... staff of 18. Upstaffed to 20 for really busy times (holidays).

Also, restaurant is a bad example. There you want to spend 1/3 on food, 1/3 on operating and 1/3 on payroll. In the NHL the Players themselves are part of your food and operating (the product).

Talk about tinyif you were open 24 hrs. That's 3 shifts. 3 waitress, 2 cooks, 1 dishwasher/mop guy. for each shift. Your staff would have to work 6 days a week. You would have to close 1 day a week. Nobody could ever call in sick or go on vacation. and there is no bar guy and nobody incharge. We couldn't even run a takeout place with 18 think there were close to 30 albeit 10 were probably part timers.

About your 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 claim, times must have changed since the 70's. When I was a kid I worked in the fast food biz. Even there the situation was different for each type of restaurant.
Unfortunately I can't recall the labour costs, all I can remember were the food costs we had to maintain to meet our bonuses. In the chicken business it was 47.5 % (takeout). In the pizza business it was 10%.

The average Swiss Chalet has a staff of about 50. I wasn't referencing the corner greasy spoon where Gus and Sophia do everything, from swatting cockroaches to doing the books.

 

[CerebralGenesis]

When are the next meetings scheduled, if any?

 

[Krishna]

When are the next meetings scheduled, if any?

I thought there were some today

 

[Deebo]

I thought there were some today

LeBrun says large group meetings at 10:00.

 

[CerebralGenesis]

Cool just checking.

I'll take these constant meetings as a positive sign, even if they are just discussing odds and ends.

 

[Krishna]

Cool just checking.

I'll take these constant meetings as a positive sign, even if they are just discussing odds and ends.

They need to get down and talk about the economic issues. Once that's argued on, it should move pretty quickly.

We need a new thread though!

 

[Legionnaire11]

Not trying to derail the thread, just showing why a restaurant is a poor example...

I assume at that ratio you didn't make any profit, since all your revenue was tied up in equal portions on operating costs. Must have sucked for the owner to have a place that basically never made any return on their investment.

The owner is on salary, and then you try to cut food and operating where you can. It's more like 30/30/30 and 10% profit.

Talk about tinyif you were open 24 hrs. That's 3 shifts. 3 waitress, 2 cooks, 1 dishwasher/mop guy. for each shift. Your staff would have to work 6 days a week. You would have to close 1 day a week. Nobody could ever call in sick or go on vacation.

Everyone gets 4-5 days a week and 2 days off. Most shifts are two waitresses and a cook. I think is is much closer to the overwhelming majority of restaurants, there are of course big name downtown places with a larger staff. Most restaurants (that are not in a chain), are small start ups where most of the staff is working 6-7 days (or the place is closed on sunday), they are doing a lunch and dinner, or just dinner and probably have around 10 on staff at most.

 

[JMT21]

Was reading that Lundquist (Rangers) will be heading over to Sweden to play for this home town team.
The team had to seek outside financing just to cover the 30K in monthly insurance to cover his contract.

 

[CerebralGenesis]

I'm hoping they are discussing some bigger things occasionally and just keeping it from the media and not posturing to them. A man can dream.

What's the next thread title?

 

[Krishna]

I'm hoping they are discussing some bigger things occasionally and just keeping it from the media and not posturing to them. A man can dream.

What's the next thread title?

Well the Fehr brothers and Bettman and Daly met yesterday in a small group to have economic issue talks but not much was resolved

 

[CerebralGenesis]

I'm hoping more along the lines of, "hey dental work is good now. speaking of teeth, how does linked HRR sound?" At least something to get some inertia going.

 

[njdevil26]

At any point is the NHL in trouble of losing their deal with NBC? I would have to believe that in their contract somewhere there is an out option for NBC if the product they are paying for is not available for their network and is leaving them with broadcast holes to fill.