Confirmed with Link: Flyers Sign Christian Folin to one-year contract, $800K

[deadhead]

If Gudas has his head on straight, and Sanheim is focused, they're the second pair.
MacDonald - Myers, Hagg - MacDonald, or MacDonald - Polin are your third pair possibilities.

 

[Striiker]

Wrong. Hakstol doesn't care how they play.

And Mac has never been on the 3rd pair. Hak LOVES him.

 

[PALE PWNR]

I'm ready to see Myers on this team. I thought he looks fantastic in the last camp.

Also what's the possibility that Friedman gets on the team any time within the next 2 years? He'd another guy that really impressed for me last season. I know he's always been somewhat of a long shot to ever make the NHL club.

 

[GKJ]

I'm ready to see Myers on this team. I thought he looks fantastic in the last camp.

Also what's the possibility that Friedman gets on the team any time within the next 2 years? He'd another guy that really impressed for me last season. I know he's always been somewhat of a long shot to ever make the NHL club.

You'd have to move someone. Who is he going to pass on the depth chart to break through? By then there won't be anyone they're actively trying to move.

 

[Amorgus]

If he starts in the NHL, he's bumping out Hagg. I have this bad feeling we are getting Ghost-Hagg reunited. I'd mind that.

Please take this card out of Hak's deck.

 

[Magua]

Please take this card out of Hak's deck.

View attachment 128697

"Choose a friendly creature and negate all damage, defense, and attack modifiers."

Holy shit that couldn't be more accurate.

 

[Angry Hockey Dad]

I like the signing. Not sure if Myers is ready for a roster spot this year, if anything this should motivate him too.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Wrong. Hakstol doesn't care how they play.

Come on, Striiker. Hakstol obviously cares about how his players play. He wants to win. You just don’t like his player evaluations & situational deployment.

 

[CodyTheHuman]

I put him EASILY behind...

Provorov
Ghost
Sanheim
Gudas
Myers
MacDonald
Folin
Friedman
Gustafsson
Therien
Couturier

...for our defensemen.

If he's in the top 6 then Hextall gave Hakstol too much freedom again.

I feel like Couturier should be higher than Therien at this point in time. Besides, since Couts clearly isn't a 1C maybe we should try him at defense.

 

[Striiker]

Come on, Striiker. Hakstol obviously cares about how his players play. He wants to win. You just don’t like his player evaluations & situational deployment.

He's so blinded by style that he ignores results. He doesn't realize it's 2018, so he thinks guys like Hagg have a place in this league, while scratching a guy like Sanheim.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

He's so blinded by style that he ignores results. He doesn't realize it's 2018, so he thinks guys like Hagg have a place in this league, while scratching a guy like Sanheim.

Maybe there are legitimate system-based reasons he doesn’t trust Sanheim more yet?

For the record, I’d like to see Sanheim play more, also. But I also don’t think he was as good as some other fans seem to think before he got sent down. His metrics look good, but he played extremely cherry-picked minutes. And I’ve said this a million times, there are usually reasons behind playing time, & it very often has to do with systems play. And look at Hakstol — he looks like the quintessential regimented German soldier. He’s going to demand structure, which also is usually what fans (who like entertainment) hate.

 

[Striiker]

Maybe there are legitimate system-based reasons he doesn’t trust Sanheim more yet?

For the record, I’d like to see Sanheim play more, also. But I also don’t think he was as good as some other fans seem to think before he got sent down. His metrics look good, but he played extremely cherry-picked minutes. And I’ve said this a million times, there are usually reasons behind playing time, & it very often has to do with systems play. And look at Hakstol — he looks like the quintessential regimented German soldier. He’s going to demand structure, which also is usually what fans (who like entertainment) hate.

But again, nobody is saying Sanheim was perfect or that he isn't still a work in progress.

All that's being said is he was clearly better than someone like Hagg, for example. Meanwhile Hagg played a ton more, with far better partners, and didn't leave the lineup until being injured.

If Hagg is a better fit for Hakstols system than Sanheim (he isn't, Sanheim should be EXACTLY what Hakstol wants) then the problem would be the system. In 2018, Hagg simply doesn't belong in this league. He's detrimental at everything outside of the defensive zone and even in the defensive zone he sucks. There's a reason his hits were constantly brought up... it was the only thing you could talk about with him, unless you wanted to endlessly shit on him for everything he was doing wrong.

On top of that, if we're going to talk about structure, as if that was an excuse for their usage, then that's another example of stereotypes overriding reality. Sanheim being an "offensive defensemen" automatically means he was less safe... except in reality Hagg was an even bigger risk when he was on the ice because of all of his deficiencies. Both had moments where they were lost in the defensive zone, but Sanheim was miles ahead when it came to leaving the zone and everything after. This myth that Hagg was a "safe" player is just stereotypes because of him being a "stay at home defensemen".

 

[SuchySays]

Kurtis Foster 2.0?

lol

 

[Ghosts Beer]

But again, nobody is saying Sanheim was perfect or that he isn't still a work in progress.

All that's being said is he was clearly better than someone like Hagg, for example. Meanwhile Hagg played a ton more, with far better partners, and didn't leave the lineup until being injured.

If Hagg is a better fit for Hakstols system than Sanheim (he isn't, Sanheim should be EXACTLY what Hakstol wants) then the problem would be the system. In 2018, Hagg simply doesn't belong in this league. He's detrimental at everything outside of the defensive zone and even in the defensive zone he sucks. There's a reason his hits were constantly brought up... it was the only thing you could talk about with him, unless you wanted to endlessly **** on him for everything he was doing wrong.

On top of that, if we're going to talk about structure, as if that was an excuse for their usage, then that's another example of stereotypes overriding reality. Sanheim being an "offensive defensemen" automatically means he was less safe... except in reality Hagg was an even bigger risk when he was on the ice because of all of his deficiencies. Both had moments where they were lost in the defensive zone, but Sanheim was miles ahead when it came to leaving the zone and everything after. This myth that Hagg was a "safe" player is just stereotypes because of him being a "stay at home defensemen".

I think Sanheim is better than Hagg, also. I’d prefer watching Sanheim get more time than Hagg.
Just saying that maybe Hakstol isn’t going to award Sanheim playing time based on talent alone. He’s trying to get every player to buy into a specific system. Talent alone doesn’t win. Look at Edmonton.

 

[Adam Warlock]

But again, nobody is saying Sanheim was perfect or that he isn't still a work in progress.

All that's being said is he was clearly better than someone like Hagg, for example. Meanwhile Hagg played a ton more, with far better partners, and didn't leave the lineup until being injured.

If Hagg is a better fit for Hakstols system than Sanheim (he isn't, Sanheim should be EXACTLY what Hakstol wants) then the problem would be the system. In 2018, Hagg simply doesn't belong in this league. He's detrimental at everything outside of the defensive zone and even in the defensive zone he sucks. There's a reason his hits were constantly brought up... it was the only thing you could talk about with him, unless you wanted to endlessly **** on him for everything he was doing wrong.

On top of that, if we're going to talk about structure, as if that was an excuse for their usage, then that's another example of stereotypes overriding reality. Sanheim being an "offensive defensemen" automatically means he was less safe... except in reality Hagg was an even bigger risk when he was on the ice because of all of his deficiencies. Both had moments where they were lost in the defensive zone, but Sanheim was miles ahead when it came to leaving the zone and everything after. This myth that Hagg was a "safe" player is just stereotypes because of him being a "stay at home defensemen".

That is it. That right there is why so many of us hate Hakstol. It is not about us being convinced that the kids are perfect or overlooking their mistakes....it is about us realizing that they are simply the better player than who is being put out ahead of them.

No one is going to have an issue with Lindblom being bumped down the depth chart as a result of signing JVR...because right now JVR IS a better player. No one would have an issue with Sanheim being bumped down the depth chart for a solid top 4 dman if we had one. We DO have an issue with Sanheim being bumped down the depth chart for guys like Amac and Hagg because they are NOT better players than Sanheim.

The best players should get the most ice time period. If that player happens to be a rookie who makes rookie mistake...then so be it. At least rookies will learn from it.

 

[Striiker]

I think Sanheim is better than Hagg, also. I’d prefer watching Sanheim get more time than Hagg.
Just saying that maybe Hakstol isn’t going to award Sanheim playing time based on talent alone. He’s trying to get every player to buy into a specific system. Talent alone doesn’t win. Look at Edmonton.

And he shouldn't award it based on talent. He should award it based on effectiveness and on-ice value to the team. In the end, that would also result in Sanheim playing more. There's simply no argument to be made for Hagg.


ok... NOW, I'm done.

 

[Bleed orange]

I think he is more of a 7th/8th D-man (basically taking Morin's spot this year).

Ideally:
Provorov-Ghost
Sanheim-Gudas
MacDonald-Myers

Extras: Hagg, Folin.

(In a perfect world, Myers takes training camp by storm and switches spots with Gudas, but that would never happen with Hak/Hex).


Also gotta factor in that there are going to be injuries/benchings through-out the season.

Overall, good signing by Hextall provided that Hak does not use Folin in a top four role

 

[deadhead]

The best players should get the most ice time period. If that player happens to be a rookie who makes rookie mistake...then so be it. At least rookies will learn from it.

The problem comes when rookie's DON'T learn from their rookie mistakes.
When a ten year veteran like Voracek makes the same mistakes, "shrug shoulders".
When someone like Manning doesn't learn, well, he's in Chicago. He's not the first Ron shipped out of town after playing a lot of minutes.

But you have different standards for the TK, Ghost, Sanheim types - because there's more at stake in their development.
You'll bench them, send them back to the AHL, etc. because you don't want to them to get "Gagner'd" unless they become hopeless.
If you can turn them into responsible, smart, two-way players, you may have a great player on your hands (see Ghost last year), otherwise you have the next Drouin who you will have to ship out of town before the league catches on that the player is less than his pretty plays.

Patrick, Provorov, Couts (and Frost and Farabee) don't need tough love, that's why Hextall tries to draft these guys, high Hockey IQ = low downside risk.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

And he shouldn't award it based on talent. He should award it based on effectiveness and on-ice value to the team. In the end, that would also result in Sanheim playing more. There's simply no argument to be made for Hagg.


ok... NOW, I'm done.

It always drives fans crazy when coaches fall in love with the Erick Snow types.

I only take issue with the idea that there’s “no reason” for Hagg to play over Sanheim. There probably are systems/teaching-related reasons Hakstol held Sanheim back. Frustrating, yes, & maybe Hakstol is wrong if that’s what he’s doing. But I doubt it’s completely without reason.

 

[Mufferaw Joe]

As of right now its going to be

Provorov-Ghostisbehere
Sanheim-Gudas
Macdonald-?

Last spot will be Hagg,Frolin or Myers and Myers will have to be good in training camp or its split time between the other 2

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

As of right now its going to be

Provorov-Ghostisbehere
Sanheim-Gudas
Macdonald-?

Last spot will be Hagg,Frolin or Myers and Myers will have to be good in training camp or its split time between the other 2

Probably more like...

Provorov - Gostisbehere
Hagg - MacDonald
Sanheim - Gudas
Folin

Unfortunately.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Yeah, Myers isn’t starting with the big team unless there’s a trade in mind. There could be. The Folin addition threatens Gudas a bit, I’d say.

 

[Rebels57]

Probably more like...

Provorov - Gostisbehere
Hagg - MacDonald
Sanheim - Gudas
Folin

Unfortunately.

Yup. Even when eye test and every metric tells us the 2nd and 3rd pair should be flip-flopped, they wont be.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Yup. Even when eye test and every metric tells us the 2nd and 3rd pair should be flip-flopped, they wont be.

Hak might get even more crazy & try to sabotage things by swapping Gostisbehere & MacDonald.

 

[Magua]

Yup. Even when eye test and every metric tells us the 2nd and 3rd pair should be flip-flopped, they wont be.

That's your problem. You're using the eye test.

The coaches see 50x what you see.