Post-Game Talk: Flyers @ Rangers - November 28

[The Gloaming]

Don't get me wrong I think our centers are extremely talented. I don't think we need better centers. Just maybe different centers. They can't all suck at zone entries and right now, every center sucks at zone entries.

Maybe Lindberg will be good at them and bump somebody to wing.

You know who was great at them? Brad Richards. 54% possession player his last season here. By no means am I saying we should have kept him at his age at that money, but him being bad here was so overblown. He was good for us.

He was slightly better than MSL was last season. Wasn't overblown at all.

 

[JohnC]

Coach said it finally. Maybe the world can catch on now.

 

[Machinehead]

He was slightly better than MSL was last season. Wasn't overblown at all.

Richards was a positive CF%rel player his entire time with the Rangers. MSL was a HUGE negative CF%rel player his entire time with the Rangers.

I never understood the comparison between the two. They were both old guys from Tampa, I guess. On the ice they were opposites.

 

[The Gloaming]

Richards was a positive CF%rel player his entire time with the Rangers. MSL was a HUGE negative CF%rel player his entire time with the Rangers.

I never understood the comparison between the two. They were both old guys from Tampa, I guess. On the ice they were opposites.

Richards was scratched in the 13 playoffs. And for good reason.

The buyout was totally deserved and needed.

 

[Machinehead]

Richards was scratched in the 13 playoffs. And for good reason.

The buyout was totally deserved and needed.

I still think he was underrated here. I agreed with the buyout and still do.

Regardless I'm not saying we miss Richards. I'm saying we miss any center who can complete a zone entry.

 

[The Gloaming]

I still think he was underrated here. I agreed with the buyout and still do.

Regardless I'm not saying we miss Richards. I'm saying we miss any center who can complete a zone entry.

Brassard is usually good at zone entries when his head isn't lodged in his rectum. When Hayes worries less about dangling, he's alright at it too.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

We're 6th in goals per game. Offense is not our problem.
I don't understand how you can think our defense is fine. It looks awful to me. Leaving guys wide open in front of the net is not good defense.

Where are we in goals against per game?

 

[aufheben]

I still think he was underrated here. I agreed with the buyout and still do.

Regardless I'm not saying we miss Richards. I'm saying we miss any center who can complete a zone entry.

Somebody get Doug Armstrong on the line!

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

Coach said it finally. Maybe the world can catch on now.

Well then what would be his reasoning for not changing anything this whole time? Does he just assume the team is going to finally click like they did the past 2 seasons? what if that clicking never happens? Staal and Girardi keep playing poorly and Kreider never puts it together? What then?

 

[DanielBrassard]

Where are we in goals against per game?

Here's the difference. Our Goaltender doesn't score goals like he makes saves to keep the puck out of the net.

 

[One Winged Angel]

Put this in perspective...

Fleischmann and Tlusty make a combined 1.5 million, yet Gorton signed Stalberg and Still instead.

 

[One Winged Angel]

Well then what would be his reasoning for not changing anything this whole time? Does he just assume the team is going to finally click like they did the past 2 seasons? what if that clicking never happens? Staal and Girardi keep playing poorly and Kreider never puts it together? What then?

One thing I've said about Vigneault from the start and I got blasted for it on here was his glaring inability to make adjustments, in general, nevermind in-game.

The guy is a good coach, not a great one. We won't win the cup with him.

Sorry.

 

[aufheben]

Coach said it finally. Maybe the world can catch on now.

Now the questions is: what's going to change?

A coach that made it to Game 7 and Game 5 of separate Finals can't win a Cup? I don't buy that. It's hard to blame him for being stubborn when he's a brilliant coach mostly, although it's definitely his biggest flaw.

 

[nevesis]

I know this isn't an excuse, but don't under estimate how much players despise day games. It screws up their sleep schedules, and routines. These might seem like small things that shouldn't matter but they do.

I don't believe this is the reason for the poor play as a whole as of late, but it's a minor consideration for at least today and perhaps yesterday.

More so, I think major complacency set in after storming out of the gate to a record start. The only way fix that is to face some adversity for the first time this season. This is the adversity now and this is chance they have to notice the issues, address them fully and fix them before it spirals out of control.

 

[ltsthinaz]

Every team has weaknesses. Including Montreal - I think Price really needs surgery but they're trying to avoid it because then he'd might be out for the season.

Unless we're going to miss the playoffs, which we aren't (barring a collapse or injuries), I am not yet worried. Other teams have learned to play the trap to beat us, and we haven't adapted. Also, I don't care how many PP goals we score, our PP still stinks, just passing around the perimeter and not enough zone time.

Defense has been bad, but I think there is plenty of time for them to adapt. I think Staal is finished, I'd trade him in a heartbeat. Sit him after the Carolina game (you think the 'Canes still want him???? Real cheap???). Play Boyle, he has things to offer if we can protect him a little in the defensive zone. Bring up Skjei if ready, can't be worse than Staal. And we need a defenseman at the deadline, get a decent 5/6 one cheap and, presto, defense problems go away.

30 other teams would kill for our goaltenders. The reason St. Louis, Anaheim haven't won isn't their forwards or defense, it's their goaltending. Probably same with the Crapitals.

Like everyone else, I'm perplexed by Kreider. But you can't teach 6'5", 230 with phenomenal speed. It is on the coaches to teach him a little finesse, and on him to use his size in front of the net, not behind it. But you just can't trade him unless the return is unbelievable.

 

[silverfish]

One of those games where you think back to it and you have to ask yourself if a player actually played in that game. Did Kreider and Nash even dress? What about Zuccarello and Brassard?

And really, you can't afford a game like that when your 1C goes down.

Props to Raanta for hanging in there. I liked Etem's game at some points. Loved McIlrath's game again. He needs to stay in the lineup.

They need to be better. They've needed to be better for a while.

 

[darko]

They'll be fine.

 

[Metranger]

Lot of hyperbole, here. They've hit a rough patch. And they're were never going to maintain the pace they were on.

But I think it's a bit much to now claim that there's a team culture issue.....

The Caps easily beat the Lightning.

What does that tell you.

The Rangers won't go too far in the playoffs.

 

[Do you want ants]

I don't remember the last time they had a game like this. I refuse to believe that this was just a bad game. Montreal was a bad game against a great team. This was a clear lack of effort. No amount of telling me to be a Pens fan will get me to believe this was a good effort. Also, who's coming out of the woodworks, I'm here all the time.

You are correct, you are here all the time. But the majority of your comments about this team are negative and it comes off almost like you are rooting against this team. Bad games happen, bad stretches happen. I don't know if you remember the late 90s, but I'll gladly take what we've gotten to enjoy that last couple of years. This team even with it's current issues is still in great position to make the playoffs. I believe they can correct these issues in time for another playoff run.

 

[Siamese Dream]

Don't get me wrong I think our centers are extremely talented. I don't think we need better centers. Just maybe different centers. They can't all suck at zone entries and right now, every center sucks at zone entries.

Maybe Lindberg will be good at them and bump somebody to wing.

You know who was great at them? Brad Richards. 54% possession player his last season here. By no means am I saying we should have kept him at his age at that money, but him being bad here was so overblown. He was good for us.

Possession stats have absolutely nothing to do with zone entry ability. You can get those good possession numbers from dumping the puck in, and/or forechecking and forcing turnovers. You don't have to carry the puck into the zone to then get shot attempts. Not to mention there's 5 skaters on the ice, you could be great at zone entries but if your linemates aren't then that's going to affect your numbers. And possession is also heavily based on what you do in your own zone. You cannot measure zone entry ability with possession stats.

You can only measure zone entry ability with the eye test, I don't think there is anywhere that keeps tabs on how many times a season a player gained the zone with the puck on his stick. I know from the eye test Hayes is usually bad at zone entries because he often tries to dangle around players with too many moves. I know Nash is good at zone entries because he skates in a straight line and protects the puck with his body. I knew Sean Avery was bad at zone entries because he didn't know the offside rule.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

The Caps easily beat the Lightning.

What does that tell you.

The Rangers won't go too far in the playoffs.

Your argument hinges on the fact that a team we struggled with was easily beaten by someone else, in ONE game?

This is the NHL. Anyone can beat anyone else one night, and then get murdered by them the next night.

Oilers beat the SCC Hawks this year...

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

The Caps easily beat the Lightning.

What does that tell you.

The Rangers won't go too far in the playoffs.

I have no idea what this has to do with anything that I wrote.

Furthermore, I have no idea how the Caps easily beating the Lightning means the Rangers won't go too far in the playoffs.

 

[Machinehead]

Possession stats have absolutely nothing to do with zone entry ability. You can get those good possession numbers from dumping the puck in, and/or forechecking and forcing turnovers. You don't have to carry the puck into the zone to then get shot attempts. Not to mention there's 5 skaters on the ice, you could be great at zone entries but if your linemates aren't then that's going to affect your numbers. And possession is also heavily based on what you do in your own zone. You cannot measure zone entry ability with possession stats.

You can only measure zone entry ability with the eye test, I don't think there is anywhere that keeps tabs on how many times a season a player gained the zone with the puck on his stick. I know from the eye test Hayes is usually bad at zone entries because he often tries to dangle around players with too many moves. I know Nash is good at zone entries because he skates in a straight line and protects the puck with his body. I knew Sean Avery was bad at zone entries because he didn't know the offside rule.

It's very disingenuous to say shot attempt stats have nothing to do with zone entries when 99% of shot attempts come in the zone. This is especially true for the Rangers who really aren't a forechecking team and carry across the line a lot.

Regardless, on my eyes alone our centers all suck at them. There's not a team in the league that looks as cringe-worthy as the Rangers going into the zone.

 

[Ail]

Coach said it finally. Maybe the world can catch on now.

Surely he meant to add (and the elite defense that makes their goaltending extrordinary.)

 

[Ail]

Where are we in goals against per game?

I like the part where you completely ignored the statement from the coach directly attributing that to the ... drum roll please ...

goaltending.