News Article: Flyers looking to extend Schultz

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

if he wants 3 per then trade him.

 

[dats81]

Meltzer compares him to Engelland who got 2.9M per but that's just like taking Clarkson or Pouliot as a references for singing wingers.

 

[Schwarbomb]

Meltzer expects him to want 3 years at $3 million, but I think that's nuts.

Flyers haven't signed a player to a regrettable deal since MacDonald. I reckon we're due for another one.

 

[RJ8812*]

Flyers haven't signed a player to a regrettable deal since MacDonald. I reckon we're due for another one.

one per season

 

[Cootsfanclub]

Flyers haven't signed a player to a regrettable deal since MacDonald. I reckon we're due for another one.

Surely Rinaldo's extension counts as regrettable.

 

[Schwarbomb]

Surely Rinaldo's extension counts as regrettable.

I'm pretty sure they could jettison Rinaldo and his deal to the AHL though.

 

[Rebels57]

Schultz is worth NOWHERE NEAR $3 million per season. He's a dime-a-dozen player. He's fine on the bottom pair. I wouldn't give him more than $1.5.

 

[BillDineen]

Surely Rinaldo's extension counts as regrettable.

Does VV signing count as well?

 

[Bill_Meltzer]

Schultz is worth NOWHERE NEAR $3 million per season. He's a dime-a-dozen player. He's fine on the bottom pair. I wouldn't give him more than $1.5.

What he's "worth" and what he can command on the UFA market after a bounceback season this year are two separate issues. Take a look at what the UFA Dmen have signed for in recent years. The prices are grossly inflated. It's the same reason why the Flyers had to overpay MacDonald by so much last year and why Grossmann got $3.5M (now the going rate for his role) to pre-empt UFA status in 2012.

Don't like it? Then develop your own younger defensemen at cheaper cost on their ELCs and bridge deals.

 

[Richi]

one per season

2014: MacDonald (Rinaldo)
2013: Lecavalier
2012: Grossmann
2011: Bryzgalov
2010: Pronger
...

I think you´re on to something here

 

[BillDineen]

What he's "worth" and what he can command on the UFA market after a bounceback season this year are two separate issues. Take a look at what the UFA Dmen have signed for in recent years. The prices are grossly inflated. It's the same reason why the Flyers had to overpay MacDonald by so much last year and why Grossmann got $3.5M (now the going rate for his role) to pre-empt UFA status in 2012.

Don't like it? Then develop your own younger defensemen at cheaper cost on their ELCs and bridge deals.

Part of the benefit of signing a vet D man on a 1 year contract is that if he bounces back, some playoff team will overpay for him at the deadline. (Hoping for the same with Grossmann and L.Schenn next season).

Says enough that MDZ and Schultz both signed on the cheap and look as good or better than everyone but Streit most nights.

 

[Bill_Meltzer]

Meltzer compares him to Engelland who got 2.9M per but that's just like taking Clarkson or Pouliot as a references for singing wingers.

No, it's just the nature of today's UFA market. Is Brooks Orpik a $5.5M cap hit worthy player? Is Matt Niskanen worth $5.75M on a seven-season commitment? Was Andrew MacDonald worth a raise to $5M in order to pre-empt him getting at least that much if not more on the open market?

Last summer, Schultz was just hoping to find another NHL job and he STILL commanded $1.25M on a one-year deal while fellow (and much younger) reclamation project Michael Del Zotto got $1.3M. That is where you can find the bargains.

Once a guy has a bounceback year, the open market cost balloons again, like it or not. Perhaps the Flyers could get Schultz at $2.75M if he wants to stay that badly and the Flyers are willing to make it a three-year deal. However, on the open market, no way he gets one cent less than what Deryk Engelland (who is also in his 30s and a lesser player) got from Calgary last summer.

Again, I am not saying he is "worth" that or that the Flyers ought to pay it. I am just painting the picture of what the marketplace is paying even for vets who are likely to be third-pairing types on a good team.

 

[BillDineen]

Summer 16 is going to be hard enough as it is. If they sign Schultz past then I will cry.

I would love if they were actually patient for once and passed of signing UFAs or pending UFAs until they have a better idea of how the D prospects are developing professionally. I doubt Uncle Ed would agree though.

 

[Bill_Meltzer]

2014: MacDonald (Rinaldo)
2013: Lecavalier
2012: Grossmann
2011: Bryzgalov
2010: Pronger
...

I think you´re on to something here

The Flyers have gotten pretty good value out of Grossmann. His salary is right in line with where the market ended up for guys like Rob Scuderi and Willie Mitchell on their next UFA deals.

For all the heat Grossmann takes for his puck moving skills (or lack thereof) he has more often than not been pretty reliable on the whole. Want to trade him? Fine. Then find a defenseman who has the same level of physical strength and relative reliability in his role at a lower cost.

Hopefully, Sam Morin can do that -- with additional strengths that Grossmann lacks -- in seasons to come.

 

[OrangeAndBlackMetal]

2014: MacDonald (Rinaldo)
2013: Lecavalier
2012: Grossmann
2011: Bryzgalov
2010: Pronger
...

I think you´re on to something here

I mean.... Really, if prongers injury never happens, he's likely still playing and likely still a top 15 defenseman. That contract would be great right now, especially with that cap hit.

 

[Richi]

The Flyers have gotten pretty good value out of Grossmann. His salary is right in line with where the market ended up for guys like Rob Scuderi and Willie Mitchell on their next UFA deals.

For all the heat Grossmann takes for his puck moving skills (or lack thereof) he has more often than not been pretty reliable on the whole. Want to trade him? Fine. Then find a defenseman who has the same level of physical strength and relative reliability in his role at a lower cost.

Hopefully, Sam Morin can do that -- with additional strengths that Grossmann lacks -- in seasons to come.

It´s by no means the worst contract, but at the time the signing happened a similar defenseman could have been had for less at a better term. But what´s really bad about this contract is the NTC

 

[Richi]

I mean.... Really, if prongers injury never happens, he's likely still playing and likely still a top 15 defenseman. That contract would be great right now, especially with that cap hit.

Or he could have regressed or more likely retired, which would have made the cap trouble a lot more serious.
Or maybe he would have played good and well until the end of his contract, in which case you´d be completely right.

But we´ll never know...

 

[BillDineen]

There are so many non-cap teams better than this one. Spending their way to a pricey D on UFAs/near UFAs is not a long term solution. They are not going to win a cup with Schultz, Coburn, Grossmann and L.Schenn at or close to UFA cost. Even with McDavid. There is also an opportunity cost:

Schultz at this deadline IF he continues to play well: 3rd or 4th

Coburn is "worth" somewhere between 3 2nd rounders from a team like Edmonton now and a 2nd and 3rd like AMac returned near next year's deadline.

Grossmann and L.Schenn might return a late 2nd or 3rd from a contender at next year's deadline.

You have to get the most of the assets you have. Passing on trading any of your own pending UFAs for picks and then using yours to acquire pending UFAs you know you are going to have to overpay contract wise is why this team is in this mess.

 

[Tripod]

Sell him off!

He SHOULD be a bottom pairing guy.

As we saw this year, they are available AND let's keep those spots open for our kids.

If they are not ready, pick one up cheap...like this year.

 

[Tripod]

There are so many non-cap teams better than this one. Spending their way to a pricey D on UFAs/near UFAs is not a long term solution. They are not going to win a cup with Schultz, Coburn, Grossmann and L.Schenn at or close to UFA cost. Even with McDavid. There is also an opportunity cost:

Schultz at this deadline IF he continues to play well: 3rd or 4th

Coburn is "worth" somewhere between 3 2nd rounders from a team like Edmonton now and a 2nd and 3rd like AMac returned near next year's deadline.

Grossmann and L.Schenn might return a late 2nd or 3rd from a contender at next year's deadline.

You have to get the most of the assets you have. Passing on trading any of your own pending UFAs for picks and then using yours to acquire pending UFAs you know you are going to have to overpay contract wise is why this team is in this mess.

Exactly.

We are rarely in a sell position.

Take advantage of it and sell what you can.

Especially a 3rd pairing dman!!!

 

[BernieParent]

No, it's just the nature of today's UFA market. Is Brooks Orpik a $5.5M cap hit worthy player? Is Matt Niskanen worth $5.75M on a seven-season commitment? Was Andrew MacDonald worth a raise to $5M in order to pre-empt him getting at least that much if not more on the open market?

Last summer, Schultz was just hoping to find another NHL job and he STILL commanded $1.25M on a one-year deal while fellow (and much younger) reclamation project Michael Del Zotto got $1.3M. That is where you can find the bargains.

Once a guy has a bounceback year, the open market cost balloons again, like it or not. Perhaps the Flyers could get Schultz at $2.75M if he wants to stay that badly and the Flyers are willing to make it a three-year deal. However, on the open market, no way he gets one cent less than what Deryk Engelland (who is also in his 30s and a lesser player) got from Calgary last summer.

Again, I am not saying he is "worth" that or that the Flyers ought to pay it. I am just painting the picture of what the marketplace is paying even for vets who are likely to be third-pairing types on a good team.

Wouldn't the uncertainty over the cap with the plunging Canadian dollar be a dousing of cold water on what FAs, especially of the fringe variety, would be expecting? I see Schultz as an okay third-pairing option for which few GMs will be aggressive in pursuing. Hextall, in particular, has to shed salary and has arguably equally good defensive options available in the minors.

Above all of this, there is no reason to commit to someone of ho-hum talent for next season when the current season is starting to circle the bowl and all signs are pointing to the Flyers as sellers at the TDL.

I would consider signing Schultz as an indicator that the new management is singing from the same faulty, short-sighted playbook as the guy just promoted out of the GM's job.

 

[Schwarbomb]

Sell him off!

He SHOULD be a bottom pairing guy.

As we saw this year, they are available AND let's keep those spots open for our kids.

If they are not ready, pick one up cheap...like this year.

That makes too much sense cap wise for the Flyers.

 

[Cootsfanclub]

When you can get a guy like CC a month into the season for under a million, you shouldn't consider giving Schultz more than one year and much more than one million.

 

[Tripod]

In fact, Schultz play shows why you don't pay the MacDonalds and Schenn's of the world so much money.

But still...get a 3rd or 4th rounder for him.

We have Coburn, Gross, Streit, MacD and Schenn still signed for next year...and MDZ a RFA.

If we fail to move theses guys between now and the deadline, why bother with Schultz.

And if his contract ask is real.....not a chance.

I wouldn't sign him for 3 years at 1 million per....let alone 3!

 

[Larry44]

In fact, Schultz play shows why you don't pay the MacDonalds and Schenn's of the world so much money.

But still...get a 3rd or 4th rounder for him.

We have Coburn, Gross, Streit, MacD and Schenn still signed for next year...and MDZ a RFA.

If we fail to move theses guys between now and the deadline, why bother with Schultz.

And if his contract ask is real.....not a chance.

I wouldn't sign him for 3 years at 1 million per....let alone 3!

I understand Bill's point about market value, but the Flyers can only extend Schultz if they lose salary elsewhere.

To break in the kids, we need some veterans but not too many.

We need some size so one of Grossmann or Schenn should to stay.

We need a PPQB, so one of Streit or MDZ should stay.

We need someone who can play in a top pairing role, so Coburn should stay.

We don't need Macdonald at all. To me, he should be the one Hexy focuses on dealing as top priority, if it's even possible. I'd consider waiving him if no one will deal for him, just see if anyone could be tempted to take his contract for nothing. I thought it was worth it at the time but I was wrong. Amac just plain stinks.

At this deadline, if someone desperate for a PPQB makes a good offer for Streit, I'd ask him to waive, then reup MDZ.

If someone offers anything for MDZ, he can go.

If someone offers anything for Grossmann, he can go, so Luke can stay. If the team doesn't want Luke, he should go.

If someone offers anything for Schultz, he can go too.

Next year:

Coburn
Streit or MDZ
Grossmann or Schenn
Morin
Alt, Gostisbehere or Hagg, whoever wins the spot in camp
6th D: could be Schultz or another cast off.
7th D: Cheap vet - Colaiacovo or someone like him. There are lots.