Post-Game Talk: Flyers 4, Pens 0 - Kunitz for Selke

[Ian Moran Icing]

I'm just gonna chaulk this up to the team being exhausted and cut them a break.

-NHL Schedule Makers. 4,500 mile road trip. 5 games in 8 nights. Every North American time zone.

-Kunitz

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I get the "anyone but Kunitz" argument because I led that brigade ages ago. What's lazy is people speaking in absolutes that "not Kunitz", with so many regulars out, is going to make a difference. If he's in the top six when they're healthy, then go nuts because the move would be indefensible. As it stands right now, the fact that neither Wilson or Kunitz will be in the top six come spring makes this entire exercise both lazy AND stupid.

I picked two obscure players from the past and made a joke. Funny how you chose to publish Tangradi's numbers and not Jeffrey's, which were actually half decent his first few call ups. Speaking of lazy...

Didn't you say the bolded in regards to there being no way Kunitz would remain on Crosby's line once Sheary was back? It took an extra 2 or 3 games of complete ineptitude for Sullivan to switch it to Sheary/Guentzel before he removed Kunitz.

Point being, you seem convinced that it's "just because of injuries" that Kunitz is there, when it looks more a case of Sullivan simply thinking there's something about Kunitz's game that makes him want to play him with either Sid or Geno. The fact that he finally removed him from Sid's line only to hamper Geno proves that.

Kunitz is Sullivan's default option if there's even one injury, or if the current lines struggle even slightly. Not sure why you even bother defending that.

 

[Captain Hook]

Yeah, I fully expected this blowout. Rivalry game at the end of a very long road trip and the weird scheduling to have the road trip end in Philly at the end of a long Western Canada trip.

Only extra downside is Hainsey possibly being injured.

Kunitz being overplayed so much is also infuriating. It's nowhere near the only reason for the loss but him playing so much isn't helping. We have to try something/someone else. I know the other options aren't great with all the injuries but doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity after all.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

I hope like Hell I'm wrong, but I'll be shocked if we don't re-sign Kunitz to a retirement deal this summer.

I'm shopping for garbage cans to vomit into in preparation. I'm already livid and it hasn't even happened yet.

 

[sawtooth420]

Criers were jacked up. We were exhausted. Our PP was terrible. Our D in general was meh. I thought Murray did everything he could to keep us in the game. Kunitz is being misplaced and should be a 3rd or 4th liner at most. His hands seemed to have faded away.

Anyway, don't put too much stock into this game. We're still missing half of our team. I have no doubts that this team could repeat. Yeah it was a crap loss, but the flyers beat us to most pucks and we just couldn't get our legs. It happens. Move on. We know this team when healthy owns this league more often than not. Bad games happen to everyone. Bring up Sprong and ZAR for a few games on 3rd line and we'll take over

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I hope like Hell I'm wrong, but I'll be shocked if we don't re-sign Kunitz to a retirement deal this summer.

I'm shopping for garbage cans to vomit into in preparation. I'm already livid and it hasn't even happened yet.

No chance, the guy might be lucky to hit 30pts this season, the thing we should be worried about is Kunitz saying he has enough gas left in the tank for another season and is willing to take a major cap cut to stay.

We should all riot.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

No chance, the guy might be lucky to hit 30pts this season, the thing we should be worried about is Kunitz saying he has enough gas left in the tank for another season and is willing to take a major cap cut to stay.

We should all riot.

I mean, I don't think this organization really gives a **** about his performance or production. Case in point; the last 3 years of hockey.

It will be at a discount, I won't contest that, but he will absolutely be re-signed here. I all but guarantee that, and it makes no ****ing sense.

 

[Captain Hook]

No chance, the guy might be lucky to hit 30pts this season, the thing we should be worried about is Kunitz saying he has enough gas left in the tank for another season and is willing to take a major cap cut to stay.

We should all riot.

Yep, that's my only fear with the Kunitz situation as well. He's been so bad that I doubt any other team will really want him. Certainly nobody else will offer him big money or term and that could open the door for the Pens to bring him back on a cheap deal. It's kind of a scary thought. We just have to hope JR understands Kunitz is done and needs to move on. He did with Craig Adams a couple years back.

 

[larueskee]

Gonna be a realllly tough stretch here if Hainsey is out for some time.
Might get Horny back soon though.

Hainsey? You gotta be kidding me. He and Streit are career minus players combining for over 130 in the minus column over their careers. I can't believe Sullivan is giving them so much ice. That first period set the tone and when Hainsey was out there it was pretty much a tilted ice surface. I know the d has some injuries but my lord those 2 are adding to the problem not the solution.

 

[BobCole]

I mean, I don't think this organization really gives a **** about his performance or production. Case in point; the last 3 years of hockey.

It will be at a discount, I won't contest that, but he will absolutely be re-signed here. I all but guarantee that, and it makes no ****ing sense.

Do you want to bet?

 

[Honour Over Glory]

We got shutout by a terrible Flyers team.

It's sinking in now...

 

[LOGiK]

Our biggest rival and the game was a dud to watch. It wasn't too long ago that Pittsburgh Vs Philly was must see tv and usually lived up to the hype.


The NHL has big problems, I'm just not sure that they know or care.

I wouldn't exactly say Philly is the Penguins biggest rival any longer. The Flyers have been pretty horrible recently and have easily been surpassed by the Blue Jackets as the Pens biggest rival. CBJ absolutely HATES the Penguins and try every game to send a message that they will indeed murder a Penguin if the situation calls for it. They know there is a very good chance of playing in round one and it's apparent each game they play that they hate the Pens with absolute murderous intent.

Philly..... a shell of what they used to be from the bench clearing brawl days when they used to play the Penguins 8 times a year.

 

[LOGiK]

If you think the road trip didn't play any part in tonight's **** show, then have at it. Heck the records of teams at the tail end of trips like this then come back and tell me it played no part.

I mean by all means, be mad. The game sucked balls, but speaking in absolutes that Scott ****ing Wilson would have made a lick of difference is actually a bigger troll job than me posting nudes of myself.

As soon as I heard the Nor Easter storm diverted the Penguins flight from Philly last evening to Pittsburgh and made the team get on a 9am flight this morning I knew the team would be tired, exhausted, gassed, and ready for bed by the time the puck dropped.

They were probably awake at 6am today after getting into town around what... midnight from a west coast game. They were probably jet lagged beyond belief and didn't get any rest. Yet these people on this board are trashing the team and losing their minds. You guys/gals are ridiculous some times.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

We got shutout by a terrible Flyers team.

It's sinking in now...

We're not as bad as the lows make us look, but we're not as good as the highs make us look either.

We're a really good team with several bad or struggling players, in the middle of some ridiculous injury issues that our coach seems to want to make worse by stubbornly ruining lines.

Do you want to bet?

That he'll be re-signed? Sure. Name change or something?

 

[Honour Over Glory]

The thing is and this goes about as far back as possible to day one in the Crosby era is that this team's biggest strength and weakness is their coaching.

The coaching this year is going to be why they don't win the cup. Given what I have seen with Sullivan, Tocchet, and Martin at the helm, they are not willing to see the broader picture at all and I can see either a team that snaps out of it after being down 0-2 in a series or they just don't and question everything in the summer after being out in round 1.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

I don't disagree, but that's just the reality with coaching in the NHL. They all, down to every single last one of the guys behind the bench, favor vets. Babcock, Trotz, Laviolette, all of the best coaches (and the worst) favor vets to a nauseating degree. Couple that with the fact that this organization reveres it's guys who have been around forever and you're going to have Kunitz ruining Sid or Geno's lines whenever someone gets injured or falters even the slightest in performance. That's just the way it goes.

As much as Sullivan is rightfully getting roasted for his line combos/pairings, it's just as much JR's fault for allowing such glaring weaknesses to remain on the roster. Lots of us said it last summer, complacency and satisfaction are the death of success in the NHL. Didn't matter that we just won a Cup, we had issues then and they weren't changed, so we're suffering through them right now.

If Kunitz and Fleury are on this team come October, we're literally right back to Shero/Bylsma-era stupidity and arrogance.

-edit- And just to clarify, I don't revile Kunitz as a 4th liner getting 8-10 minutes a night. He actually played relatively well (with regard to his past 3 years of hockey) there and the only real issue was his cap hit in relation to his role. That being said, we all know that's not the whole story. The issue with Kunitz is simply that even if Sully makes the right choice and plays him in that extremely limited role or scratches him for a more effective player, that won't last. As soon as something happens like an injury or a stretch of poor games, Kunitz will be square-pegged right back up into the top-6 and on the first PP unit. Such is life on this team. The only option to completely solve the issue is to remove him from the team.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Everyone is ok with Kunitz on the 4th line, mostly because with reduced minutes in the right role for him, he's perfectly fine, but when he has a good shift, he's stapled to the top 6 for the rest of the game and then a few games after. No other player gets that benefit.

That's a coaching issue. Because a smarter coach would quickly see that Kunitz's diminished offense is one thing, but the guy is still a decent checker and on the 4th line, he was doing very well as one, even right now, Wilson would be better utilized with Malkin than Kunitz would. Then you have the bizarre move of keeping Rowney in or Sundqvist in over Archibald. Both Rowney and Sundqvist are effective as centers, but they were both moved to RW and Archibald, a winger, was left out.

That's not on JR, sure JR can be blamed to an extent, but the biggest issue is how the line-up is being used. The defense is also a mess because of it. You have wrong pairings on forward and defense, the only thing Sullivan got right this year was GCS.

Kunitz was used on the 4th line and was fine, Sullivan did that. So there's no excuse there that it's JR's fault for keeping players like that around. He did move Fehr but hung on to others too long. Fleury is likely gone when McPhee is allowed to trade for him.

 

[madinsomniac]

Meh they looked off.. ill chalk it up to exhaustion but you can see the cruddy defensive coverage amplified by that.... its a problem going forward regardless of this

Kunitz is the atypical old vet that gets too much respect. Its a long time epidemic in the NHL... craig Adams was once a fine role player, he reached his mid 30's, lost tge only step he had and the team kept him for 4 years after he was done as an effective player...
Kunitz was a great top 6 role player for a bit... he got a late start to his NHL career... he is favored in the locker room... it stands to reason that the stars want to try to carry him..

He obviously lost a step and more importantly his hand eye is off badly these days.

its up to the staff to tactfully bury his minutes... anyone can be hidden with 8 minutes a game

 

[Honour Over Glory]

The problem is that if you say the team is tired and then you pair the wrong people up together, you are making them chase the puck all game long and work in their zone longer, that drains a team that is already tried of a long road trip. When you have the right combinations, you can spread the minutes out a little better. All Sullivan had to do was this...


Guentzel, Crosby, Sheary
Wilson, Malkin, Kessel
Cullen, Bonino, Sundqvist
Kunitz, Rowney, Kuhnhackl

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Any chance Rust can play LW?

Rust-Geno-Kessel is worth a look.

No idea on when Rust is back though.

 

[Terrapin]

For decades I'd never ever miss a game against the Flyers, Rangers, etc. Win or lose they were always entertaining. This was an absolutely pathetic effort. Sure, use the travel as an excuse. It has some merit. But most guys in the lineup are young, and should have more energy and hop. Nobody even bats an eye when a Flyer knees Murray in the face?? lol.

Sundqvist looks like a poor mans Eric Tangradi out there. Certainly glad he was a 'must keep at all costs' during the deadline. My eyes aren't what they used to be, but has that been Kevin Porter sneaking into Rowney's jersey??

Injuries suck. But when most of your team is built with soft, undersized guys, and old, soft guys, they're a part of life. Some of it's bad luck, sure. But if nobody can see the link between physically soft players and injuries, then I'm not sure what to say.

 

[Penguins23]

-NHL Schedule Makers. 4,500 mile road trip. 5 games in 8 nights. Every North American time zone.

False. Pens only visited 4 of 8 North American time zones.

 

[Shady Machine]

Games like this always bring out the crème de la crème of this board.

Indeed they do.

 

[Shady Machine]

That sounds suspiciously like an absolute. Based on...not much.

I'd like to see Kessel without Bonino or Kunitz before passing judgement. People were wondering about Crosby and Guentzel together a very short time ago. They weren't what changed.

You keep saying this about Crosby and Guentzel. I'm not I remember who all these people were that were criticizing Crosby and Guentzel's play. Also, there's a MAJOR difference between subbing out Kunitz for Sheary and subbing out Kunitz for Wilson. You are acting like just removing Kunitz sparked Crosby and Guentzel. I think Sheary had at least a little to do with it.

But yes, Sully should try Wilson over Kunitz.

 

[Shady Machine]

Didn't you say the bolded in regards to there being no way Kunitz would remain on Crosby's line once Sheary was back? It took an extra 2 or 3 games of complete ineptitude for Sullivan to switch it to Sheary/Guentzel before he removed Kunitz.

Point being, you seem convinced that it's "just because of injuries" that Kunitz is there, when it looks more a case of Sullivan simply thinking there's something about Kunitz's game that makes him want to play him with either Sid or Geno. The fact that he finally removed him from Sid's line only to hamper Geno proves that.

Kunitz is Sullivan's default option if there's even one injury, or if the current lines struggle even slightly. Not sure why you even bother defending that.

Sheary was healthy and not on Crosby's line for 2-3 full games? I don't recall that (of course that doesn't mean it didn't happen).