GDT: Florida Panthers @ Pittsburgh Penguins | 1.20.14 | 7:00 EST

[Michael8771*]

And east-west guy Neal looked damn good with Sid.

I think both Sid and Geno are a lot more adaptive than they get credit for. They can play with good players.

I understand that but ideally I'd want a guy like Evander Kane (for example), who has blazing speed to get a shot with Sid. I believe with those two their breakaway speed would just devastate the opposition. I would try to maximize each players offensive acumen to the fullest. Sure Kane could work with Geno, but I'd love to try Sid first.

 

[Winger for Hire]

My opinion is that Kobasew playing a few shifts with Sid is not pressing enough of a topic to waste two pages of the GDT on. We can discuss why the Pens always seem to play down to there competition if you want. You start.

Pass...

I don't have an answer to that? I could go to the fully on DB hater line and say it's poor preparing on the coach(es). I could go the apologist route and say it's because the players don't feel the need to show up in these kind of games. But the truth is there's nothing to discuss about that question because there's no answer. It just happens.

At least with the Kobe situation we can debate (used loosely) different alternatives and usages of players.

Also it's a decision that has been made for this game, hence why it's being discussed in the GDT.

 

[sf expat71]

Watch out.. you will get the ******** argument "BUT WE ARE IN FIRST PLACE!"

The objective isn't to end the regular season in first place. The objective is to win the Stanley freakin' Cup. And with this coach's history, we just want to see the right players used where they work. That is all. That is all I beg.

I mean, yeah, I want the Pens to win the cup, and I've seen enough of Bylsma's line creations (Iginla to LW? Seriously?) to have serious reservations about his ability to take us there. That being said, even he won't stick with Kobasew on the top line for very long, I'd hope. Even during this game tonight, I doubt he will play all of Crosby's shift with Chuck. The TOI doesn't compute.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I understand that but ideally I'd want a guy like Evander Kane (for example), who has blazing speed to get a shot with Sid. I believe with those two their breakaway speed would just devastate the opposition. I would try to maximize each players offensive acumen to the fullest. Sure Kane could work with Geno, but I'd love to try Sid first.

Given the choice, I would want all of our players to be as fast as possible. I'd want Kane with Sid too, but not because he's fast. I'd want him with Sid because Geno already has Neal on his line.

 

[Michael8771*]

They did play on the same line quite frequently. Sutter was one of his most common linemates.

Well, I don't have all the stats in reference to his days in Carolina, I didn't think they played that much together but maybe you've seen the Canes more than I. For the record I don't have an issue with JJ playing on the 3rd line when it's all said and done. I do have a problem with him playing on the 1st line however.

 

[ColePens]

No, rather, it should be whinged about for the next month, instead of being acknowledged as the most temporary of fixes.



But we are in first place and for some reason that's not acknowledged around here. Rather, Gladams and whatever other 10 minute player is *****ed about for weeks on end.

The objective is to win the Stanley Cup. Chuck Kobasew playing on Sid's win in January is so irrelevant towards that goal it's laughable. If Kobasew's on Sid's line in May, then by all means, whinge away.

This board is unbearable half of the time and we're cruising. Yeah, this team is not judged by its' regular season success but it's just sad to see this place full of misery when like 27 other teams would trade places with us in an instant. When the playoffs come around, by all means, depress yourselves and worry over every little thing. In the meantime, some of you need to try and lighten up a bit and enjoy. There will come a time when we're all wishing for the days of winning a lot.

Simple question... do you see this team taking shape? Even on our ridiculous 17-3 run, we played **** hockey. Hockey we've seen make us lose in the postseason each year. Do you see this team taking shape into a formidable opponent?

 

[Fordy]

Well, I don't have all the stats in reference to his days in Carolina, I didn't think they played that much together but maybe you've seen the Canes more than I. For the record I don't have an issue with JJ playing on the 3rd line when it's all said and done. I do have a problem with him playing on the 1st line however.

I linked you to the stats.

 

[Michael8771*]

Given the choice, I would want all of our players to be as fast as possible. I'd want Kane with Sid too, but not because he's fast. I'd want him with Sid because Geno already has Neal on his line.

Yeah I'd do it differently

I'd have Kunitz-Geno-Neal

Kane-Sid-BB. To each his own I guess.

 

[Ogrezilla]

No, rather, it should be whinged about for the next month, instead of being acknowledged as the most temporary of fixes.



But we are in first place and for some reason that's not acknowledged around here. Rather, Gladams and whatever other 10 minute player is *****ed about for weeks on end.

The objective is to win the Stanley Cup. Chuck Kobasew playing on Sid's win in January is so irrelevant towards that goal it's laughable. If Kobasew's on Sid's line in May, then by all means, whinge away.

This board is unbearable half of the time and we're cruising. Yeah, this team is not judged by its' regular season success but it's just sad to see this place full of misery when like 27 other teams would trade places with us in an instant. When the playoffs come around, by all means, depress yourselves and worry over every little thing. In the meantime, some of you need to try and lighten up a bit and enjoy. There will come a time when we're all wishing for the days of winning a lot.

If I wasn't enjoying myself, I wouldn't watch the games. But I come here to discuss hockey, not type "nice shot" and pat other Pens fans on the back for our record. We are winning. Great. There are a ton of positive things going on. They are boring to talk about because we all know them.

"Sid sure is good" "ya, Geno too" "Yep"

And that's how the pure positive conversations go. Then there is nothing left to say. The positives are acknowledged, but there just isn't anything of substance to discuss there.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Yeah I'd do it differently

I'd have Kunitz-Geno-Neal

Kane-Sid-BB. To each his own I guess.

Either works. I don't think one is better than the other necessarily.

 

[sf expat71]

Pass...

I don't have an answer to that? I could go to the fully on DB hater line and say it's poor preparing on the coach(es). I could go the apologist route and say it's because the players don't feel the need to show up in these kind of games. But the truth is there's nothing to discuss about that question because there's no answer. It just happens.

At least with the Kobe situation we can debate (used loosely) different alternatives and usages of players.

Also it's a decision that has been made for this game, hence why it's being discussed in the GDT.

Fair enough, I just think it's getting blown out of proportion. Yes, I agree our coach sucks at line making. But I just don't think, in this instance, it is as big a deal as it is being made out to be. If anything, Sid may be the only player in this league that can make a fringe NHLer useful for a game. We saw enough of the getting buried in the defensive zone and can't even chip a puck out past the blue line crap with Glass and Adams on a line. Maybe we can mitigate the fact of his actual presence in the lineup by playing him with an uber-possesion guy.

 

[Michael8771*]

Either works. I don't think one is better than the other necessarily.

Well, we know Kunitz works well with either of them, we also know Neal and Geno are phenomenal together. It's a problem you want I guess.

 

[mpp9]

Simple question... do you see this team taking shape? Even on our ridiculous 17-3 run, we played **** hockey. Hockey we've seen make us lose in the postseason each year. Do you see this team taking shape into a formidable opponent?

Outside of Geno taking his usual dumb penalties, I think he and Sid are playing smarter hockey than they were most of last year. We're harder to score on. And we have more rookies in the lineup than ever before.

But it'll be up to DB to rein the stars in come playoffs. That's what I'm most worried about.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Fair enough, I just think it's getting blown out of proportion. Yes, I agree our coach sucks at line making. But I just don't think, in this instance, it is as big a deal as it is being made out to be. If anything, Sid may be the only player in this league that can make a fringe NHLer useful for a game. We saw enough of the getting buried in the defensive zone and can't even chip a puck out past the blue line crap with Glass and Adams on a line. Maybe we can mitigate the fact of his actual presence in the lineup by playing him with an uber-possesion guy.

For some reason, I think Malkin could turn a fringe NHLer into a useful player for at least one game. Oh ya, its because he just did it with Pyatt last game.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

But we are in first place and for some reason that's not acknowledged around here.

Honestly, when ARE WE NOT in first place? This isn't new. That's not being an ungrateful, arrogant fan. It's talking about reality. We've been a first-place club for a long, long time. Divisions, conferences, that's nice. It doesn't guarantee you can get out of the first round.


AND, short-term fixes is what we're trying to avoid here. Why not try somebody who may NOT be a short-term fix next to Crosby? Last I checked, that spot in the lineup is still open. Kobasew is never an answer. So why bother?

The problem is, when we trade Despres for a rental to play with Crosby on March 5, people like you are going to say, "well, would you rather have Chuck Kobasew playing there?"

No, I'd rather find a long-term solution and stop with the short-term fixes. That starts here with not playing Kobasew at all, sending him to the AHL and trying someone else (anyone else).

 

[Ogrezilla]

Well, we know Kunitz works well with either of them, we also know Neal and Geno are phenomenal together. It's a problem you want I guess.

FYI: BB is the slowest player of that group, and he definitely likes to slow the game down and play some east west hockey. You put him with Sid. Just sayin

Also, Kunitz never scored as much with Geno as he is with Sid. And Neal really didn't slow down at all playing with Sid instead of Geno. Now I'm just being difficult

 

[alcanalz]

Simple question... do you see this team taking shape? Even on our ridiculous 17-3 run, we played **** hockey. Hockey we've seen make us lose in the postseason each year. Do you see this team taking shape into a formidable opponent?

Like every other team, including the teams everyone here loves to pretend we're an AHL team compared to (Blues, Blackhawks, Bruins), there's good and bad to our games. Lately, we've played pretty crap. We've had some good games, but some stinkers. We're still winning. It's better to have some bad games and win rather than some bad games and lose like every other team.

If I wasn't enjoying myself, I wouldn't watch the games. But I come here to discuss hockey, not type "nice shot" and pat other Pens fans on the back for our record. We are winning. Great. There are a ton of positive things going on. They are boring to talk about because we all know them.

"Sid sure is good" "ya, Geno too" "Yep"

And that's how the pure positive conversations go. Then there is nothing left to say. The positives are acknowledged, but there just isn't anything of substance to discuss there.

That's true, and the negatives at least enable discussion, but there's not much substance left in the "Adams is old" and "Letang is dumb" posts any more either.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Outside of Geno taking his usual dumb penalties, I think he and Sid are playing smarter hockey than they were most of last year. We're harder to score on. And we have more rookies in the lineup than ever before.

But it'll be up to DB to rein the stars in come playoffs. That's what I'm most worried about.

we will have 1 rookie left in the line-up come playoff time, plus Bennett. That's what I'm most worried about because it means Glass, Adams and Orpik will all be playing over Sill, Megna and Despres or Bortuzzo.

 

[Michael8771*]

Either works. I don't think one is better than the other necessarily.

FYI: BB is the slowest player of that group, and he definitely likes to slow the game down and play some east west hockey. You put him with Sid. Just sayin

This is true but he's still a faster skater than JJ. In any case I'd try it that way. Kunitz is North South and worked well with Geno so yeah you can mix it up a bit. I just think in most cases you want guys who can think the game similarly and more importantly can execute it similarly, be it skill, skating, physicality ect. You want different elements but players who have a similar mindset or skill level. Neal and Geno compliment one another nearly perfectly.

 

[Ogrezilla]

That's true, and the negatives at least enable discussion, but there's not much substance left in the "Adams is old" and "Letang is dumb" posts any more either.

good thing nobody is talking about either Adams or Letang in this thread then.

 

[alcanalz]

Honestly, when ARE WE NOT in first place? This isn't new. That's not being an ungrateful, arrogant fan. It's talking about reality. We've been a first-place club for a long, long time. Divisions, conferences, that's nice. It doesn't guarantee you can get out of the first round.


AND, short-term fixes is what we're trying to avoid here. Why not try somebody who may NOT be a short-term fix next to Crosby? Last I checked, that spot in the lineup is still open. Kobasew is never an answer. So why bother?

The problem is, when we trade Despres for a rental to play with Crosby on March 5, people like you are going to say, "well, would you rather have Chuck Kobasew playing there?"

No, I'd rather find a long-term solution and stop with the short-term fixes. That starts here with not playing Kobasew at all, sending him to the AHL and trying someone else (anyone else).

You don't know what I think about Despres or what I'd like to do at the deadline, but nice try.

The reason Kobasew is a short-term fix is because it's January and half of our forwards are out. It's not the end of the world.

 

[IcedCapp]

the problem a lot of fans have isn't that "Kobasew is going to "skate a few shifts on Crosby's line" (not sure how you can say a few shifts since he's practicing there and the game hasn't been played)"

but because a handful of us believe there is something wrong with the way this team is run, and those issues have been at least partly responsible with the post-season disappointments.

And if the regular season is your preparation for the playoffs, Bylsma is showing no signs of changing his ways. He can't even break his reliance of useless plugs like Chuck Kobasew with a nearly insurmountable lead in the division and a very comfortable lead in the conference.

The lineup, with the Bennett injury, isn't ideal, but Bylsma has better options than Chuck Kobasew, who, if his name were Simon Despres, Beau Bennett, or Jayson Megna, would be a permanent fixture on either WBS' roster or the roster of whichever team claimed him, but Chuck Kobasew, he of 2 pts in 25 games, and no real positives outside of his veteran status, is the 1st-line fill-in.

 

[mpp9]

we will have 1 rookie left in the line-up come playoff time, plus Bennett. That's what I'm most worried about because it means Glass, Adams and Orpik will all be playing over Sill, Megna and Despres or Bortuzzo.

I expect Maatta, Beau and Megna to be in. With Sill and Bort as extras. That's no less than any other contender.

I don't like DB. But he's made strides there.

 

[Ogrezilla]

This is true but he's still a faster skater than JJ. In any case I'd try it that way. Kunitz is North South and worked well with Geno so yeah you can mix it up a bit. I just think in most cases you want guys who can think the game similarly and more importantly can execute it similarly, be it skill, skating physicality ect.

And I think both Sid and Geno can play with either north south guys or east west guys. That's my point. You even gave them both one of each in your setup. Just like we are suggest we'd do today by putting Jussi with Sid.

 

[sf expat71]

For some reason, I think Malkin could turn a fringe NHLer into a useful player for at least one game. Oh ya, its because he just did it with Pyatt last game.

So you're saying Kobe on Geno's line? We've seen that not work. I'd add that Pyatt was good last game as far as providing what was needed for Geno and Neal, but he's been horrible elsewhere in the lineup. In my estimation, if (big if, I know) we are fully healthy, I'd rather have Jussi with Sutter if all we are adding between now and the playoffs is Bennett being healthy, and I don't think Kobe is much more than a healthy scratch.