GDT: Florida Panthers at Ottawa Senators - 7PM - Sportsnet / TVAS - Hello Kitty, eat litter!

[Burrowsaurus]

He was a PPG last year at 35, he exceeded his 6.5 million salary.

I was talking about Norris

 

[WallyD]

If Staios is waiting to hire a GM to then let the GM hire the coach, is he also waiting for a GM to make trades?
If the GM they want isn't available Staios is going to have to play GM himself at some point.

Agreed...

Not sure why so many are hung up on the premise that only the new GM can hire a new coach. I get why it's preferable, so the new GM owns/wears that hire. That said, it is not like this is mandatory. In fact, Staios hiring a new coach could be seen as advantage in that it affords him more time for his subsequent GM search. They can more easily await season end this way. At the end of the day, does anybody really believe NHL GMs simply announce coaching changes out of the blue, not having first discussed them with POHO and owner? I seriously doubt that.

 

[BoardsofCanada]

Ok
So whats the solution? Rebuild probably?

I wouldn't blow it up. I would try to make a big move or two.

They have to cut their goals against. Too many players thinking goal scoring first and defense second. As great as Timmy Stutzle is, he is probably one of the worst offenders for turn overs in the defensive zone. Brady Tkachuk is another player who is always thinking attack and forgets about his own zone. For the record, by no means am I saying trade these two.

It might just be a matter of time. Maybe we keep this team together and next year they continue to mature finally figure it out. Who knows. Look at New Jersey. After a sensational season last year, they've come back down to earth and don't look so scary. It's unpredictable. Maybe next year will be Ottawa's.

 

[NyQuil]

After a sensational season last year, they've come back down to earth and don't look so scary. It's unpredictable. Maybe next year will be Ottawa's.

It didn't take that much.

Their didn't really improve their abysmal goaltending, but they lost two veteran defencemen and have tried younger guys in their places. Meanwhile, you lose Jack Hughes for awhile and suddenly they aren't steamrollering teams anymore.

The line is pretty thin between dominating and sucking in this league these days. The Oilers were a Stanley Cup favourite and now they are the only thing distracting people away from how brutal we are.

 

[swiftwin]

It didn't take that much.

Their didn't really improve their abysmal goaltending, but they lost two veteran defencemen and have tried younger guys in their places. Meanwhile, you lose Jack Hughes for awhile and suddenly they aren't steamrollering teams anymore.

The line is pretty thin between dominating and sucking in this league these days. The Oilers were a Stanley Cup favourite and now they are the only thing distracting people away from how brutal we are.

Yep. League parity is just bonkers right now.

Just look at Florida. They looked awful most of last season, and now they look amazing. Same with Vancouver. They were looking like they needed to blow it up. Now they don't. It really doesn't take much.

 

[Mingus Dew]

Well, a different coach can preach a different message and use a different type of accountability to achieve results. But I don't know what's going on between the ears of some of these guys and the results they're producing just aren't good enough.

Then there's other problems with the roster. Kelly, Chartier, Jarventie, Macewan, Highmore and Kastelic have played 61 games combined and produced a total of 2G, 7A, 9P. Because of long term injuries to Zub and Chabot, Hamonic has now played every game this year when he should be the #7. Brannstrom has 1P in 12GP. Kubalik -8 and Batherson -6, worst on the team. The scoring gap between the top 10 players on the roster and the rest is massive.

And, worst of all, they just don't play with enough tenacity and determination. You don't need puck skills to be hard on the forecheck. You don't need to be a 1OA pick to win a 50/50 puck or a battle along the boards. You don't need to have elite hockey IQ to clear the puck out of your zone when you have time and space. You don't need skill to play hard, you just need to do it. And you shouldn't need a coach to tell you to do it either.

I agree with pretty much all of this.

The idea that we can just replace the coach and automatically become a playoff team is hopium to the extreme.

Problems run way deeper than that.

 

[NyQuil]

The idea that we can just replace the coach and automatically become a playoff team is hopium to the extreme.

I'm not sure who is making this connection.

But this team will certainly not make the playoffs with this coach.

 

[Beech]

I wouldn't blow it up. I would try to make a big move or two.

They have to cut their goals against. Too many players thinking goal scoring first and defense second. As great as Timmy Stutzle is, he is probably one of the worst offenders for turn overs in the defensive zone. Brady Tkachuk is another player who is always thinking attack and forgets about his own zone. For the record, by no means am I saying trade these two.

It might just be a matter of time. Maybe we keep this team together and next year they continue to mature finally figure it out. Who knows. Look at New Jersey. After a sensational season last year, they've come back down to earth and don't look so scary. It's unpredictable. Maybe next year will be Ottawa's.

Tim S.. by 2025/2026, his salary skyrockets to 10 M (8.35 AAV)
Brady T...this is year one of high salary. 10.5 M (8.2 AAV)
Josh N.. in 2024/2025, his salary skyrockets to 9.5 M (7.95 AAV)
Drake B. .. this is year one of a high salary and it will crest at 6.5 M in his last 2 years (4.975 AAV)

Thomas C.... 2024/2025 will be 10 M (8.0 AAV)

who are you moving out? who will trade a player with higher salary than his AAV.. With a recession coming and buildings will be part empty.. So, owners are going to shed salary, not take it on.

Here are a few possibilities:
Jake S 8.05 AAV...8.05 salary
Ridley G... ELC and probably on his way to a 2-3 M a year contract
Shane Pinto.. probably on his way to a 2-3 M contract
Artem Z... AAV and salary the same

Good luck in a trade...

 

[Mingus Dew]

I'm not sure who is making this connection.

But this team will certainly not make the playoffs with this coach.

Fair enough. Agreed.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

We’re gonna scrape a win out of Columbus and Gord Wilson will talk about how much stability it has brought

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I'm going to try to be the optimist again (f*** the haters), but, the December schedule might be a blessing is disguise. It's clear the team is mentally distracted and underachieving, and our schedule so far has been so shitty and disjointed, which, combined with off ice distractions, has made it impossible for the team to get into a groove.

The December schedule is going to be challenging physically, but easier mentally. The team is rested and is becoming healthy with Chabot and Greig coming back. There's a real possibility for the team to go on a run here.

Alternatively, it's more likely to send the team in to complete chaos with losses piling up.

 

[Big Muddy]

I'm not sure who is making this connection.

But this team will certainly not make the playoffs with this coach.

I'm pretty sure yesterday's humbling blow out wasn't due to bad goaltending from Forsberg. Like I said before, it's just not one issue. There's lots to fix.

 

[HF Reader]

Tim S.. by 2025/2026, his salary skyrockets to 10 M (8.35 AAV)
Brady T...this is year one of high salary. 10.5 M (8.2 AAV)
Josh N.. in 2024/2025, his salary skyrockets to 9.5 M (7.95 AAV)
Drake B. .. this is year one of a high salary and it will crest at 6.5 M in his last 2 years (4.975 AAV)

Thomas C.... 2024/2025 will be 10 M (8.0 AAV)

who are you moving out? who will trade a player with higher salary than his AAV.. With a recession coming and buildings will be part empty.. So, owners are going to shed salary, not take it on.

Here are a few possibilities:
Jake S 8.05 AAV...8.05 salary
Ridley G... ELC and probably on his way to a 2-3 M a year contract
Shane Pinto.. probably on his way to a 2-3 M contract
Artem Z... AAV and salary the same

Good luck in a trade...

I see it this way also. What would you get in a trade for Norris, if anyone would even take him?

 

[NyQuil]

I'm pretty sure yesterday's humbling blow out wasn't due to bad goaltending from Forsberg. Like I said before, it's just not one issue. There's lots to fix.

I think everyone agrees.

 

[UglyPuckling]

I'm going to try to be the optimist again (f*** the haters), but, the December schedule might be a blessing is disguise. It's clear the team is mentally distracted and underachieving, and our schedule so far has been so shitty and disjointed, which, combined with off ice distractions, has made it impossible for the team to get into a groove.

The December schedule is going to be challenging physically, but easier mentally. The team is rested and is becoming healthy with Chabot and Greig coming back. There's a real possibility for the team to go on a run here.

Sure, throw some more mud against the wall. Your hypothesis have been consistently wrong, but you might hit one eventually.

 

[Knave]

I mean you’re using some of the very best 1oa picks of their generations as your examples though. Most young players don’t make a huge impact immediately. stammer and Hedman are examples of star 1OAs that needed time to have an impact on team success.

Yes and they gave their team playoffs as 18-19 year olds. We're asking for team success with our star players in their early to mid 20s.

That's why I included Jack Hughes and Mathew Barzal but I suppose I could have done some digging and come up with a longer list.

Jack Hughes might have been first overall but people were describing him as a potential bust after 2 years. Breakout third year (like Stutzle) and then fourth year he exploded and his team made the playoffs.

Mathew Barzal was drafted mid first round, developed a couple years in minors. He played his rookie season with Tavares on his team and then the year after that they lose Tavares for nothing, the Islanders go on to make the playoffs.

I feel these are two reasonable comparisons here. Major pieces on their teams. The most recently drafted star players on their teams. The Devils and Islanders are not big money spenders just like the Senators (we are a cap team BTW). In that 4th year since the drafting of those 2 players... those 2 teams experienced the playoffs. Meanwhile in our 4th year after the Stutzle draft we seem to headed out of the playoff hunt.

This is not good. This is bad. I don't want to be the Buffalo Sabres. I don't what to be the the Edmonton Oilers. I don't want to be the cautionary tale and yet that's increasingly what this team looks like.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Sure, throw some more mud against the wall. Your hypothesis have been consistently wrong, but you might hit one eventually.

I love that it's framed like you're a hater if you're not optimistic. How can anyone be optimistic about this team going on a run right now? That was one of the worst efforts we've seen from this group and it came in a home game with the chance to get over .500.

 

[NyQuil]

I'm going to try to be the optimist again (f*** the haters), but, the December schedule might be a blessing is disguise. It's clear the team is mentally distracted and underachieving, and our schedule so far has been so shitty and disjointed, which, combined with off ice distractions, has made it impossible for the team to get into a groove.

The December schedule is going to be challenging physically, but easier mentally. The team is rested and is becoming healthy with Chabot and Greig coming back. There's a real possibility for the team to go on a run here.

They need to do that just to keep pace with last year's point total.

 

[WallyD]

Boro was awful

Can't question Boro's heart, drive, caring. Few players tried harder than Boro, but I agree he was not a skilled defenceman. Sadly he went over the top as a (supposed) tough guy, engaging in badly chosen fights he frequently lost. In terms of his physical play he missed badly on so many of his trademark step up 'big hits', resulting in being totally out of position and far too many odd man rushes. I view Boro as not dissimilar from Cici, contribution wise. Cici worked his arse off to win the puck, only to immediately GIFT it back to the other team near every time. Could have played a shot drinking game based on how predictable that was, but you'd find yourself hugging the porcelain goddess way too quickly! Both players had tons of heart and were great teammates, but were totally unreliable offensively and defensively. Tons of heart and passion doesn't always translate to a measurable on ice contribution.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Tim S.. by 2025/2026, his salary skyrockets to 10 M (8.35 AAV)
Brady T...this is year one of high salary. 10.5 M (8.2 AAV)

Good thing these 2 were less than AAV in the front end and back end of deal. Same with Chabby, at front end.

Tim’s deal your off by 2 years lol , he hits that number in year 5 and 6, then drops off again.
I know you like to exaggerate, but doesn’t help your point at all.

At least get your numbers right.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Is it that the players don't listen or is it that the players are not being told?
Regardless, I agree with your main point.

I am as done with DJ as everybody else but I think we can reasonably expect that the players just do not listen.

DJ isn't getting the message across and that part is on him but let's not think DJ doesn't watch the same team and doesn't shake his head at all the bonehead mistakes.

DJ's failing is not getting the players to change their ways on a consistent basis. We've seen the team perform well when they listen (that game in Sweden in Minnesota was textbook good game plan and sticking to it for example), but for whatever reason the players don't listen to him enough and that's on the coach.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

There's a fine line between being optimistic and delusional. I think we know which of the two our friend is. It won't stop from him from pretending he's the sharpest knife in the drawer though.

That's how this whole thing has sort of been portrayed throughout. People just didn't get it. One day Melnyk and Dorion's genius would shine through and the Stanley Cups will roll in.

If anything Dorion got a bit of a lifeline with Melnyk passing and actually having a proper 52 card deck to work with, but it's still a façade created to cover up what was more about cutting costs than anything.

 

[UglyPuckling]

That's how this whole thing has sort of been portrayed throughout. People just didn't get it. One day Melnyk and Dorion's genius would shine through and the Stanley Cups will roll in.

If anything Dorion got a bit of a lifeline with Melnyk passing and actually having a proper 52 card deck to work with, but it's still a façade created to cover up what was more about cutting costs than anything.

Yep, there was always the lectures and a healthy dose of denigration that was part of the routine as well. Like we somehow couldn't understand that the team needed a few vets versus yes we need vets but we don't need to give away draft picks for really bad vets that are barely NHL caliber anymore. That's one of many examples.

Yes, it was no coincidence that every (almost every) time one of our good players got to their payday contract, they were traded.

Got to hope it's a brand new ball game under Andlauer and running things on a shoe string budget days are gone. They just need to purge the rest of the dead weight now and build from there.

 

[swiftwin]

Alternatively, it's more likely to send the team in to complete chaos with losses piling up.

It could, but I'm just looking at our record so far this season:

4-2-0 on the road (including the two Sweden "home" games)
4-7-0 at home (excluding the two Sweden "home" games)

3-1-0 on back to backs

Sure, throw some more mud against the wall. Your hypothesis have been consistently wrong, but you might hit one eventually.

Care to elaborate?

 

[Burrowsaurus]

I am as done with DJ as everybody else but I think we can reasonably expect that the players just do not listen.

DJ isn't getting the message across and that part is on him but let's not think DJ doesn't watch the same team and doesn't shake his head at all the bonehead mistakes.

DJ's failing is not getting the players to change their ways on a consistent basis. We've seen the team perform well when they listen (that game in Sweden in Minnesota was textbook good game plan and sticking to it for example), but for whatever reason the players don't listen to him enough and that's on the coach.

I do it about that Minnesota game. We played against a boring team. We weren’t brilliant.