Flint Firebirds 2018-19 Season Thread (Part 2)

[DetSpitsFan]

He 100000% wanted out and made it publicly known.

Must’ve missed that. The main one I heard was bitten and several guys with NHL rights. Still a bit unfortunate, but the trade value makes a little more sense now)

 

[Packman]

Players should be looking to get out sooner then later

 

[DetSpitsFan]

I think that you will see Nilsen enacting some sort of legal action against the OHL. That will come back to haunt the OHL and David Branch because they did everything to avoid a lawsuit. Even to the point that they assured Nilsen that his son Hakon would have a guaranteed spot on the Firebirds.

At the time of Nilson's suspension the Firebirds were in no way playing at a clip of (.133 - 3-25-2 hockey club).

The value of the franchise has plummeted. The team (3-25-2) is no where at the level when he purchased the franchise. The OHL has a lot to do with this, David Branch has a lot to do with this, Barclay Branch has a lot to do with this.

Attendance is at an all time low since the franchise has been in Flint and it is very close to being the worst in the whole 20 team OHL.

It seems that Nilsen has lived up to his part of the suspension. Unfortunately, for the good hockey fans of Flint the OHL has not.

Don't be surprised to see Nilsen suing to get full value for what he paid for the franchise before the OHL stepped in.

Also, don't be surprised in order to avoid a legal loss, the OHL will offer to Nilsen the FULL value of the franchise at the time of purchase. In return the OHL will revoke Flint's membership as a league member.

Nilsen has other options available. The OHL has had nearly four years to find a buyer for the club and has not come up with one.

In the meantime, Saginaw has had two new investors with NHL ties to invest in the Spirits.

I ask you why Saginaw and not Flint?

I ask a similar thing about Hatcher and Legwand with the Sting. Why Sarnia not Plymouth? Whalers were for sale, with Legwand being Plymouth alumni. Instead those two Michigan guys go to Sarnia. I’m sure there’s valid reason, it just sucks getting the short end of the stick. Which seems to happen every time in Flint. :/

 

[BadgerBruce]

Is the CHL under the Hockey Canada umbrella?

Seeing as how David Branch is the commissioner of the OHL and the CHL and Hockey Canada only works as partners with the CHL, I don't think that would bear much fruit. Still, wouldn't hurt to try I guess and I'd add the NHL to the list of recipients too. I think an upset NHL would have as much pull as anybody else.

The CHL is a “Member Partner” of Hockey Canada, which essentially means that the two groups cooperate on international hockey matters. But make no mistake, the CHL is NOT governed by Hockey Canada. In fact, Dave Branch was a vice-president with the Canadian Amateur Hockey Association (CAHA, forerunner of today’s Hockey Canada) when he took the Ontario Junior Hockey czar job nearly 40 years ago, and one of his very first acts was to pull Ontario Major Junior Hockey out of the Ontario Hockey Association (OHA) and Hockey Canada. Today’s CHL is incorporated and self-governing.

 

[MJ5]

I wish Flint was similar to the Whalers ...they were such a powerhouse...always a big strong team

We all wanted this. Most the people on here are season ticket holders. The die hards showing up almost every night.

I love this city, grew up in Flint, visit the bars and local shops all the time, would love to see a sports franchise come in and thrive. After this, its USL Soccer. And I know people will bag on it and what not. But I'll be buying season tickets and supporting anything I can that comes to Flint, hope others will at least give it a chance.

 

[DetSpitsFan]

I wish Flint was similar to the Whalers ...they were such a powerhouse...always a big strong team

While the team wasn’t Championship ready when it left Plymouth, the tools were definitely there. I know the Branches are drilling the firebirds into the ground and although he’s getting some defense in here, it started with Nilsen. Seemed like the Whalers were one of those teams that could always compete, up until their last season. Pete DeBor and Vellucci ran that team well, it’s unfortunate they’ve both moved up and weren’t there to help Flint.

The bad record gets the talk of “Maybe they’ll move”, but I don’t know where they could be headed. I dont see a nice clean situation, but I do them staying in Flint in 19/20.

 

[hockjock]

Well I wish I had the money to buy the Firebirds. I’d make it where Branch is and all his cronies were fired. I’d start from scratch.

 

[cub]

Well there is talk about Shane Wright being granted exceptional status. If I understand it correctly to be granted exceptional they have to commit to report to whatever team selects them in the priority selection. Someone correct me if that is incorrect.

I saw an interview with him, he said he would report to any team.

 

[jprenkert]

I ask a similar thing about Hatcher and Legwand with the Sting. Why Sarnia not Plymouth? Whalers were for sale, with Legwand being Plymouth alumni. Instead those two Michigan guys go to Sarnia. I’m sure there’s valid reason, it just sucks getting the short end of the stick. Which seems to happen every time in Flint. :/

I remember thinking the same thing when they said legwand and hatch night Sarnia. I think it came down to having to buy an operate the full Compuware facility. And I believe just the arena came in close to the cost Nilsson paid for the firebirds and dort.

 

[Whalers Fan]

I ask a similar thing about Hatcher and Legwand with the Sting. Why Sarnia not Plymouth? Whalers were for sale, with Legwand being Plymouth alumni. Instead those two Michigan guys go to Sarnia. I’m sure there’s valid reason, it just sucks getting the short end of the stick. Which seems to happen every time in Flint. :/

We had similar thoughts in Plymouth at the time. However, the Sarnia and Plymouth sales had one major difference. Karmanos was selling both the team and the facility, while Sarnia was a team-only deal. So Legwand and Hatcher would have needed a lot more money to buy both the Whalers and Compuware Arena. I believe the facility sold for over $20 million. Also, USA Hockey jumped at the opportunity to buy the facility, as the NTDP had outgrown its facility in Ann Arbor. This deal gave the program an opportunity to own its own facility which could be expanded to meet its needs without needing to relocate from SE Michigan. USA Hockey has deep pockets, and would have been difficult to outbid for the facility.

I still miss the OHL in Plymouth, but there was no local owner who was going to step in and buy both the team and the arena once Karmanos decided it was time to sell all his sports teams. I consider us fortunate that he sold the facility to USA Hockey, who has invested a lot of money to expand and renovate it. It could have easily been sold to a developer to be bulldozed to make way for another commercial development.

I feel for the Flint fans here, knowing what it’s like to lose a OHL team. While I do not have much confidence that you will have a good final outcome, I hope I am wrong and you get a new owner who is dedicated to putting a quality product on the ice, like what we had in Plymouth for so many years.

 

[Hockey61fan]

We had similar thoughts in Plymouth at the time. However, the Sarnia and Plymouth sales had one major difference. Karmanos was selling both the team and the facility, while Sarnia was a team-only deal. So Legwand and Hatcher would have needed a lot more money to buy both the Whalers and Compuware Arena. I believe the facility sold for over $20 million. Also, USA Hockey jumped at the opportunity to buy the facility, as the NTDP had outgrown its facility in Ann Arbor. This deal gave the program an opportunity to own its own facility which could be expanded to meet its needs without needing to relocate from SE Michigan. USA Hockey has deep pockets, and would have been difficult to outbid for the facility.

I still miss the OHL in Plymouth, but there was no local owner who was going to step in and buy both the team and the arena once Karmanos decided it was time to sell all his sports teams. I consider us fortunate that he sold the facility to USA Hockey, who has invested a lot of money to expand and renovate it. It could have easily been sold to a developer to be bulldozed to make way for another commercial development.

I feel for the Flint fans here, knowing what it’s like to lose a OHL team. While I do not have much confidence that you will have a good final outcome, I hope I am wrong and you get a new owner who is dedicated to putting a quality product on the ice, like what we had in Plymouth for so many years.

At this point getting players has nothing to do with the dedication of ownership. It all lies on the League and Branches.
Honestly, with the way things are going right now I don't see a team in 19/20. This is exactly what the Branches wanted and they succeeded. Let's hope I am wrong for the sake of the city, players and coaches.

 

[Whalers Fan]

At this point getting players has nothing to do with the dedication of ownership. It all lies on the League and Branches.

It actually does have a lot to do with having a dedicated owner. While the Branches have certainly done nothing to help the franchise, this all started with Rolf Nilsen -- whose primary reason for purchasing the team was to have a place for his son to play. With this being his son's last season of OHL eligibility, it's highly questionable that Rolf will have any motivation to own and run the team properly if it were to be turned back over to him.

Having a dedicated owner is crucial for a major junior hockey team. We saw the contrast here in Plymouth. For almost his entire time owning the team, Peter Karmanos hired quality people like Peter DeBoer and Mike Vellucci to run the team and was committed to running the organization well -- not for the money (the Whalers couldn't have made him much if any), but because he believed in major junior and youth hockey. Once he decided to sell the franchise, though, he rightfully found a well-deserved landing spot for Vellucci in the Carolina Hurricanes organization and put in place a Gong Show to replace him for that final, awful lame duck season. In his defense, finding quality people to hire for a lame duck season with the team up for sale wasn't going to happen. The difference between that final season and all the previous ones was staggering.

 

[jprenkert]

That last season was something terrible. But also had good building blocks for the future. I remember thinking i could do a better job then Butterbean behind the bench.

 

[N Da No]

Firebirds now last in attendance in OHL...

http://www.hockeydb.com/nhl-attendance/att_graph_season.php?lid=OHL1989&sid=2019

 

[FirebirdsFan21]

Firebirds now last in attendance in OHL...

OHL 2018-19 team attendance at hockeydb.com

Wow, Just now we moved into last place. Seems surprising with all turmoil that we weren't in the bottom from the start almost.

 

[TcNorth]

Firebirds now last in attendance in OHL...

OHL 2018-19 team attendance at hockeydb.com

You act surprised.

 

[GangGreen]

Wright if granted age exemption would have to report wherever he is drafted.

If the team stays in Flint next season, Shane Wright will be the turning point for this franchise. It’s up to the league to find an owner and GM to start building a team that can compete for an OHL championship during Wright’s time there, as the Otters did with McDavid.
We sincerely hope that happens.

 

[ohloutsider]

I know I'm likely speaking out of turn here but my friend had a nice chat with Rolf last time Flint played in Windsor. His impression was Rolf was real happy in Flint and was very impressed with the area. Could be all smoke and mirrors but he certainly was not selling the area short.
Maybe, just maybe when his son moves on and he gets control of the team back he might actually try to build something there? If he really, truly loves junior hockey maybe he has figured it out and will become a productive owner? He certainly has the money to make it an elite program.

 

[DetSpitsFan]

I don’t know if Wright changes things. At 15 with exceptional status, is there any other place to go to play at the level of the OHL? He can’t go the college route just yet, and an extra year of OHL would be helpful, regardless of the team. Who’s to say he wouldn’t just play the first year and then want out. Granted, Flint would be compensated well if the kid requests, to be moved. It seems like it’s been said by several players, “I’ll play for whoever drafts me”, “I’ll play for whoever I get traded to”, and then next thing you hear is they want out of said place.
Obviously not always the case, but it tends to happen more than I like seeing.

Yeah that last Whalers season was rough. The rumors around the team being sold definitely had a negative impact on the players on the ice. I honestly think flint would be in a much better place had there not been so much off ice drama from the two months of the team. Even today, their roster on paper, doesn’t scream “3 wins out of 30”.

As the team is underperforming, there’s definitely going to be those rumors of “oh they might move”. If there’s legit any talk of that behind the scenes, I definitely see how it could again, impact on ice performances. I don’t mean to crap all over Flint hockey with this statement, so don’t take it as such, but I feel bad for the current Firebirds roster. There’s guys that aren’t playing to their full potential, and then there’s guys that play with heart and aren’t deserving of the record and backstage shenanigans with the Branch/Bilsen fiasco.

Would I expect a last place team to be last in attendance? Yes. I don’t think that’s a proper assessment for the fan base in Flint. I always get a kick out of the windsor board complaining about attendance. Because an average 4,000-4,500 is SO Much to complain about in a 6500 seat arena. I remember the Whalers averaging about 2000 in a 3200 Arena, and that was enough to validate moving.

I definitely think Flints arena and fan experience has improved from the first season. Just wish for the players, the team, and the fans that everything else had improved as much.

 

[Savard18]

I know I'm likely speaking out of turn here but my friend had a nice chat with Rolf last time Flint played in Windsor. His impression was Rolf was real happy in Flint and was very impressed with the area. Could be all smoke and mirrors but he certainly was not selling the area short.
Maybe, just maybe when his son moves on and he gets control of the team back he might actually try to build something there? If he really, truly loves junior hockey maybe he has figured it out and will become a productive owner? He certainly has the money to make it an elite program.

Word around the local rinks is that Rolf wants to use the Firebirds to rebuild his reputation so that he might be able to buy an NHL franchise in the future. He certainly does seem to be hanging around the concourse at the arena more this year than previous years but like you said, it could just be smoke and mirrors. Really to be honest, looking back on things, he really screwed up firing Gruden and trying to force more time on Hakon. Bad ownership and questionable parenting really. They did make good moves though. Solid draft, right decision to take McLeod because Plymouth didn't really have a lot of picks. After Rolf was cut out of the equation it's been all downhill. Connor Chatham and a 2nd for Luke Kirwan. That didn't work out. 2nd's and a 3rd for CJ Clarke? Gordeev, Connor Hicks and a couple picks for Bitten? Smereck worked out. Sherwood worked out but other than that, it's just been watching assets dwindle away for little in return. On the flip-side, I have heard from a reputable source that some of Rolf's old cronies are hanging around a bit more and the players don't like it and it's causing issues. So really, it's just more continued drama with no definitive answers.

 

[house hockey 98]

Guys again don't get to wrapped up in Wright.. Have to see him play not bad but Vierling looked good at Midget. Sean Day got it and was a decent player but not someone that turned a really bad team around. Flint needs to rebuild with established players and it's time to trade away picks for players that can help over the next 2-3 year. invest and get them here along with trading picks to get them here quickly.

 

[hockjock]

Guys again don't get to wrapped up in Wright.. Have to see him play not bad but Vierling looked good at Midget. Sean Day got it and was a decent player but not someone that turned a really bad team around. Flint needs to rebuild with established players and it's time to trade away picks for players that can help over the next 2-3 year. invest and get them here along with trading picks to get them here quickly.

You’re so right. In fact Sean Day was a factor in changing the rules regarding exceptional status and not handing it out so easily. A few years ago Jack Hughes was suppose to go exceptional status and he never got it. So who knows.

 

[N Da No]

Word around the local rinks is that Rolf wants to use the Firebirds to rebuild his reputation so that he might be able to buy an NHL franchise in the future. He certainly does seem to be hanging around the concourse at the arena more this year than previous years but like you said, it could just be smoke and mirrors. Really to be honest, looking back on things, he really screwed up firing Gruden and trying to force more time on Hakon. Bad ownership and questionable parenting really. They did make good moves though. Solid draft, right decision to take McLeod because Plymouth didn't really have a lot of picks. After Rolf was cut out of the equation it's been all downhill. Connor Chatham and a 2nd for Luke Kirwan. That didn't work out. 2nd's and a 3rd for CJ Clarke? Gordeev, Connor Hicks and a couple picks for Bitten? Smereck worked out. Sherwood worked out but other than that, it's just been watching assets dwindle away for little in return. On the flip-side, I have heard from a reputable source that some of Rolf's old cronies are hanging around a bit more and the players don't like it and it's causing issues. So really, it's just more continued drama with no definitive answers.

This is why Nilsen will not retain ownership after his suspension is removed.

You are correct in stating that Rolf's "old cronies" are showing up once again.

The OHL CANNOT afford to give Nilsen a second chance of full reins of ownership. He's proven in the past that he was not capable of operating and being a responsible league member as the other 19 OHL owners have done so.

The OHL WILL NOT let this happen again. I believe that the only way the OHL remains in Flint with future SUCCESS is with NEW ownership.

Money doesn't always buy everything, Rolf.

 

[MJ5]

Evan Morrison getting the start in net today.

 

[Hockey61fan]

This is why Nilsen will not retain ownership after his suspension is removed.

You are correct in stating that Rolf's "old cronies" are showing up once again.

The OHL CANNOT afford to give Nilsen a second chance of full reins of ownership. He's proven in the past that he was not capable of operating and being a responsible league member as the other 19 OHL owners have done so.

The OHL WILL NOT let this happen again. I believe that the only way the OHL remains in Flint with future SUCCESS is with NEW ownership.

Money doesn't always buy everything, Rolf.

But yet it is ok for the OHL to ruin the team? Branches have done way worse than Rolf.